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Sept 2023 UKR Vet Recognition Incident (merged from several threads)

Canada? War crime central for WWI. Committing genocide on our indigenous population until 1994. 60s scoop was a major acceleration done until 1983, which we have never bothered to look back and try and prosecute anyone involved in it. We like to push others on how horribly they have acted yet refuse to take a mirror and look inward.
‘60s scoop’ in the late-60s/70s/early-80s…if only Canada’s federal government had conducted itself with greater empathy and understanding in that period, and ended the poor treatment of Canada’s indigenous peoples instead of ramping it up. Those leading the country during that period should be particularly ashamed…
 
‘60s scoop’ in the late-60s/70s/early-80s…if only Canada’s federal government had conducted itself with greater empathy and understanding in that period, and ended the poor treatment of Canada’s indigenous peoples instead of ramping it up. Those leading the country during that period should be particularly ashamed…
Chretien, Trudeau Pere, John Turner, Warren Allmand, Marc Lalonde, Allan MacEachern, Mitchell Sharp, Herb Gray, the list of Liberal titans who could have done something is seemingly endless.
 
... there was a distinct desire by the Allies to avoid any trial against most of the perpetrators because they feared a Communist takeover in the vacuum after Mussolini was deposed and the Monarchy was abolished ...
Very good point. I suspect this was a view supported by more than one Allied decision maker in more than just Italy, especially in light of how USSR 1.0 became the newest bad guy not toooooooo long after the end of WW2.
 
You can take things a step farther and question our side of WWII as well.

We consider ourselves the good guys but at the end of the day were we really or were we just better than the Axis?

Britain? Colony owning oppressor, acts of ‘valour’ in its history which would be the exact type of events condemned in WWII. Simple example being the Boer War which many of our regiments proudly display honours for. Basically we went and tried to bully and kill some farmers for the gold discovered on their land. Britain basically set the starting grounds for the concentration camps in the Boer War. They only stopped colonizing in the 60s when the Soviets armed the Africans which allowed them to fight back for once.

US? Forceful and violent colonizations for the decades leading up to WWII, Philippines (also had concentration camps), Annexation of Hawaii, not to mention all the horrors they inflicted on the natives during the 1800s. They also committed tons of war crimes during WWII which were never prosecuted or investigated. Basically killing every Japanese soldier (including the surrendering soldiers) they could up until their command literally had to make deals with their troops not to kill them because it was hampering intelligence gathering. Still to this day invading countries. Still killing lots of people and not holding anyone accountable.

Canada? War crime central for WWI. Committing genocide on our indigenous population until 1994. 60s scoop was a major acceleration done until 1983, which we have never bothered to look back and try and prosecute anyone involved in it. We like to push others on how horribly they have acted yet refuse to take a mirror and look inward.

USSR? Basically just as bad as the Nazis, only seen in a better light by most today due to the refusal to condemn their actions.

I would still say the Axis power which got away with the most was Japan though. Makes a lot of what the Nazis were doing look like childs play. They didn’t even hide it either.

Overall history isn't some black and white thing most try and make it seem like. Its easy to sit and go 'these people were evil' when the vast majority of people were simply surviving in their time. Our crimes were never scrutinized to anywhere near the same degree as some of the Axis because no one wanted to deal with it. History is written by the victors.

And we are not our ancestors. As much as we can take pride in them and their accomplishments their accomplishments were theirs and theirs alone. To claim their accomplishments as our own would be to steal their valour.

Equally, their sins are theirs and theirs alone.
 
Patton made the case to wage war against the USSR pretty much the day after the war ended

Four-star General LeMay took it a step further,
Delivered the first SAC Emergency War Plan in March 1949 which called for dropping 133 atomic bombs on 70 cities in the USSR within 30 days. LeMay predicted that World War III would last no longer than 30 days.
 
Four-star General LeMay took it a step further,
duck and cover documentary GIF by Kino Lorber
 
Judging from NATO's ammunition stocks it seems that everybody took his word as gospel.

Apparently so,

Air power strategists called this type of pre-emptive strike "killing a nation". However, the Harmon committee released their unanimous report two months later stating such an attack would not end a war with the Soviets and their industry would quickly recover. This committee had been specifically created by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to study the effects of a massive nuclear strike against the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, within weeks, an ad hoc Joint Chiefs committee recommended tripling America's nuclear arsenal, and Chief of Staff Vandenberg called for enough bombs to attack 220 targets, up from the previous 70.
 
This new montage should be mandatory viewing in the House of Commons to fully inform/explain who was on our side and why we went to war.

 
Going back to 1942-3. Your a young Ukrainian, who has grown up under the yoke of Stalin and the USSR. They have starved you and your family. Suddenly German Panzers drive past your house smashing the Bolsheviks and killing those evil commissars and NKVD types that have made your lives miserable. These Germans who are fit, tough and full of fighting spirit are quite captivating. Sure some are assholes, but your used to to that. By and large they leave you alone. Soon you see posters up that ask for Volunteers to fight the Soviets and reclaim your homeland. You join up, to get revenge, be part of something, plus new clothes and 3 meals a day is great. You don't really understand Nazi's political stuff and you don't care. Hitler made Germany strong and took on Stalin.
After awhile though you start seeing the similarities between the methods of the Communists and Nazi's, you hear rumours, things about what to Jews that are taken away. Then orders coming to hunt down partisans. Pretty soon your doing what the NKVD did, but you can't escape. You also know things are not going well in the war. At some point an opportunity arises to escape to the West and you take it.
 
Going back to 1942-3. Your a young Ukrainian, who has grown up under the yoke of Stalin and the USSR. They have starved you and your family. Suddenly German Panzers drive past your house smashing the Bolsheviks and killing those evil commissars and NKVD types that have made your lives miserable. These Germans who are fit, tough and full of fighting spirit are quite captivating. Sure some are assholes, but your used to to that. By and large they leave you alone. Soon you see posters up that ask for Volunteers to fight the Soviets and reclaim your homeland. You join up, to get revenge, be part of something, plus new clothes and 3 meals a day is great. You don't really understand Nazi's political stuff and you don't care. Hitler made Germany strong and took on Stalin.
After awhile though you start seeing the similarities between the methods of the Communists and Nazi's, you hear rumours, things about what to Jews that are taken away. Then orders coming to hunt down partisans. Pretty soon your doing what the NKVD did, but you can't escape. You also know things are not going well in the war. At some point an opportunity arises to escape to the West and you take it.
A case of Buyers Remorse?
Oh well, you bought it, you own it.
Also not sure what ‘Homeland’ there is to reclaim since Ukraine never existed as an independent, internationally recognized country up until that time. There was a collective sense of belonging to an ethnic identity though.
Do we then offer the same leniency to all those Croatian Ustasha that thought, hey, I’m just seeking a free Croatia from those Communist Partisans, who also happen to be mostly Serbian and Orthodox, so I’m going to support the Germans, and whoops, shame what’s happening to the Jews, Gypsies and the rest.
Same with the Estonians and Latvians?
Once those Ukrainians that did join up and began to see the crimes being committed against the Jews, that their unit themselves may have been committing, against the Poles and Gypsies, and our Allies, the Slovak Partisans, why didn’t they desert? Why didn’t they refuse to obey orders?

The Dostler case became a precedent for the principle that was used in the Nuremberg Trials of German generals, officials, and Nazi leaders beginning in November 1945: using superior orders as a defense does not relieve officers from responsibility of carrying out illegal orders and their liability to be punished in court. The principle was codified in Principle IV of the Nuremberg Principles, and similar principles are in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The German military law since 1872 said[18] that while the superior is ("solely") responsible for his order, the subordinate is to be punished for his participation in it if he either transgressed the order on his own account, or if he knew the order to be criminal.[19] The Nazis did not bother (or were too reluctant) to formalize many of their offenses (e.g., killing a non-combatant without trial), so the prosecutors at Nuremberg could have argued that the defendants broke German law to begin with. However, this line of argument was infrequently used.

And of course, this being Canada……

1987 Canadian prosecution of Imre FintaEdit

The Canadian government prosecuted Hungarian Nazi collaborator Imre Finta under its war crimes legislation in 1987. He was accused of organizing the deportation of over 8,000 Jews to Nazi death camps. He was acquitted on the defence that he was following the orders of a superior. The Canadian courts that accepted that verdict are the only ones in the world that recognize that legal defence….
 
I don't know much about his history, but I am trying to remind people that the information we have on the Nazi's now was not widely known at that point that he joined up and also trying to see why a young man would join such an organization. Many people joined the Allied armies for a promise of a pair of boots and 3 meals a day.
 
And the hits just keep rolling in.....

Governor-General Mary Simon apologizes for Waffen-SS veteran’s 1987 Order of Canada appointment​



And we used to complain about the US brining in Werner Von Braun and his merry band of Nazi scientists..... Canada, glass house, rocks....whoops.
 
And the hits just keep rolling in.....

Governor-General Mary Simon apologizes for Waffen-SS veteran’s 1987 Order of Canada appointment​



And we used to complain about the US brining in Werner Von Braun and his merry band of Nazi scientists..... Canada, glass house, rocks....whoops.
Well IIRC Nazis held rallies at Madison Square Gardens and King Edward the Abdicator sympathized with Hitler’s political leanings. So the mess is on everyone’s hands.
 
Well IIRC Nazis held rallies at Madison Square Gardens and King Edward the Abdicator sympathized with Hitler’s political leanings. So the mess is on everyone’s hands.
Very true, but those events occurred either prior to the war beginning or prior to a country entering the war. Once the war occurred and the events of the Holocaust, etc became known, well a number of countries should have done better in who they let in.
In Canada's case, it always seems to be the need to have a continuous stream of 'warm immigrant bodies' being fed to the growing of the Canadian economy by increasing the working body and not by increasing the 'knowledge' body.
In the US's case, it was clearly the desire to obtain/increase the 'knowledge' body in the gathering up for Von Braun and company.
 
All of this is all well and good and I believe Mr. Hunka should be able to live his life in peace but....

We shouldn't be giving anyone a standing ovation in the HofC that was a member of Waffen SS.
But giving a former Waffen SS member a standing ovation in Rideau Hall when the GG is placing an Order of Canada around their neck is?
 
But giving a former Waffen SS member a standing ovation in Rideau Hall when the GG is placing an Order of Canada around their neck is?
Also unacceptable. TBH, I'd be more sympathetic if they at least made a public apology and did some real truth & reconciliation.

Most of these people are also hardcore denial masters as well. "Yah there were some crimes that were committed, but I was never personally involved...." is usually the line 😄
 
Something that just occurred to me.

The Russians dominated, if not owned, COMINTERN since the revolution in 1917. From that date Russia and later the USSR, via COMINTERN, has been directly interfering in western politics by both legitimate and illegitimate means including armed struggle. That is 106 years of continued aggression. They declared a truce with the west in July 1941 because their ally, Hitler, stabbed them in the back. That truce held until May 1945 although even during the truce COMINTERN activities continued.

4 years of uneasy truce and forced common purpose in a 106 years of enmity.
 
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