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Sept 2023 UKR Vet Recognition Incident (merged from several threads)

That right there. Someone more cynical than me might spot a pattern of ... issues with competent women within the broader Team Red Ottawa wheelhouse, but I don't know if I'm quite that cynical yet. After all, competent men have been shuffled about, too.
with sincere apologies to the real thing, all that shows is that Trudeau swings both ways. He'll s"""W anything that gets in his way
 
Thinking about it this controversy is similar to our own with the Red River Rebellion and Louis Riel. Heroes and villains depending on who you’re talking to.
The spat between the Selkirk Settlers and Métis was called the 7 Oaks Massacre when I was in school. I think it is now referred as the Battle of 7 Oaks. BTW the highlanders got their asses kicked by the Métis and the casualties were disproportionately high on the Scottish side.
 
The spat between the Selkirk Settlers and Métis was called the 7 Oaks Massacre when I was in school. I think it is now referred as the Battle of 7 Oaks. BTW the highlanders got their asses kicked by the Métis and the casualties were disproportionately high on the Scottish side.

Sounds about right for the Scots. ;)
 
Not particularly. Riel was a traitorous rebel who used armed force as a misguided way to protect his people and homeland
It`s a little more nuanced than that. Riel and the Metis wanted to join Canada but with their way of life and the community they had developed maintained. They had looked to the south and did not want the USA annexing the prairies.
As to the murder of Thomas Scott; well by all accounts Scott was an Orange Lodge loudmouth bigot who was even hated by his fellow prisoners. And was given a trial (you may debate the nuances of the trial) and executed by firing squad.


Riel`s mental issues likely contributed to path of self destruction, but you cannot argue that the Government of Canada`s treatment of the Metis once HBC transferred responsibility was anywhere close to being honourable. IMO the Metis people had every right to resist the GoC policies of the day.

Edit to add.
From the Canadian Encyclopedia (I may have been to generous calling it a "trial".)
On 3 March, Scott was charged with insubordination and treason by a six-man council. He was not allowed a lawyer and, because he did not speak French, he did not understand the evidence against him. Witnesses were not cross-examined. At the end of the trial, Riel addressed Scott in Englishand summarized what had happened. One member of the council voted for acquittal and another for banishment. Four declared Scott guilty and said he should be executed by firing squad
 
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... once HBC transferred responsibility ...

This continues to intrigue me.

In the 1600s the Crowns in Britain were issuing trade monopolies to British companies that permitted British trade with foreign regions.

The Levant Company and the Muscovy Company did not claim sole jurisdiction over the Levant or Muscovy. Their charters made them the only British companies that were allowed to trade in the region.

Radisson and Groseilliers original charter was written in the same terms. It allowed them to trade in the Hudson's Bay basin with the local first nations. They sailed under the Union Jack because they were backed by the London investors who wanted the protections afforded by British law. The company was expected to abide by British practices, be adjudicated in British courts and would be both protected and limited by British arms.

To my knowledge, and I have been looking for the evidence for a while, the HBC never had a territorial claim on Rupert's Land that they could transfer to Canada.

My best read of what happened in 1870 is that the British Crown transferred its responsibility for the HBC to the government in Ottawa. The HBC became subject to Canadian laws and politicians and should look to the Canadian Army for protection.

I am not aware of any HBC agreements with the First Nations that claimed lands beyond its forts and factories.

The Selkirk Settllers, as I understand it, were not initiated by the HBC but were initiated by a well meaning do-gooder from the Scottish border and the HBC only reluctantly acquiesced precisely because they didn't want any aggravation with the locals. That was bad for business.
And their community of locals included many "metis" with names like MacDonald and MacKay.

They already had trouble enough with the Montreal traders of the Northwest Company which backed French-Canadian voyageurs and "metis" with names like Caplet and Trottier.

Metis sounds so much nicer than mixed race or half-breed don't you think? I much prefer eating pork. It would be disgusting to eat pig.
Digression.

That was the real battle at Seven Oaks. It was the fight between the Northwest Company and the Selkirk Settlers. The HBC didn't like the Settlers but were coerced into tolerating them. The NW Company didn't like them either and didn't share the HBC's compunctions.

Things got so bad in the NW that Selkirk felt the need to hire an out of work mercenary force to look after his settlers. They weren't being protected by the HBC who had the right to bear arms.

De Meurons, Swiss infantry regiment raised 1781; transferred 1795 to the British army. It served in India until October 1806, then moved to England, and was sent to Lower Canada in August 1813. There it saw limited service in the WAR OF 1812 under Sir George PREVOST during the PLATTSBURGH campaign of September 1814. Remaining in the Canadas, it was disbanded in July 1816, more than half of the 640 other ranks electing to stay as settlers. Some were immediately recruited by Lord SELKIRK for his expedition to the RED RIVER COLONY. In 1821 some former officers helped recruit Swiss settlers for Red River.

The regiments troops also found work in the Thunder Bay area.

Canada didn't gain land with the HBC. It gained a revenue source and a responsibility. It had to negotiate for the land - which it did with the numbered treaties negotiated between 1871 and 1921.


As far as the Brits were concerned George III's 1763 Royal Proclamation was the law on the land. The locals were a great source of revenue as free-traders and best kept happy.
 
^^
History is complicated.

I think Miles MacDonnell of The Selkirk crew initiated the events leading up to Seven Oaks by proclaiming the banning of the selling pemmican (due to a failed crop). The leader was Cuthbert Grant of the NWC (and Métis) who was considered a bit of an outlaw when I went to school.

 
The leader was Cuthbert Grant of the NWC (and Métis) who was considered a bit of an outlaw when I went to school.
Cool! I’ll go with first-hand experience over here say. 👍🏼
 
^^
History is complicated.

I think Miles MacDonnell of The Selkirk crew initiated the events leading up to Seven Oaks by proclaiming the banning of the selling pemmican (due to a failed crop). The leader was Cuthbert Grant of the NWC (and Métis) who was considered a bit of an outlaw when I went to school.

A very British history. Scots on both sides playing both ends against the middle in search of a penny.

And Grant wasn't the first fox put in charge of the hen house. Captain Morgan of the rum, a Taff, started out as a freebooter.
 
A very British history. Scots on both sides playing both ends against the middle in search of a penny.

And Grant wasn't the first fox put in charge of the hen house. Captain Morgan of the rum, a Taff, started out as a freebooter.
You’re right. Métis is much more honourable sounding than “Half-Breed”
 
Terry Glavin today - Get a subscription

I would point out that sowing dissent and division is what Russia and China do.

Jewish-Ukrainian.
Hindu-Sikh.
Muslim-Christian.
Anglo-French.
Chinese-Caucasian.

All exploitable seams.

Before The Craziness Becomes Inoperable. . .​

The "Nazis in the House!" backstory from the far side of my last newsletter's paywall. Here for everyone today.​

OCT 2, 2023


All of today’s newsletter, for all subscribers.

I’ve decided bring out the dezinformatsiya backstory from the paywalled portion of The Real Story on Sunday The Crippling Cost of Unseriousness because things are going sideways, fast.
I’m encouraged to do so because Keir Giles is in the house now, and people need to pay attention to what he has to say about the big thing that every Canadian politician and every prominent personality in the punditocracy has been howling about. For the sake of brevity I’ve decided to call it the Yom Kippur Eve Incident.
Giles is the author of NATO’s Handbook of Russian Information Warfare. He heads up the Conflict Studies Research Centre, which focuses on Eurasian security, and he’s a senior consultant with the Russia and Eurasia Programme of Chatham House in the United Kingdom.
He’s just come out with this, in Politico: Fighting against the USSR didn’t necessarily make you a Nazi: Canada’s Hunka scandal is a demonstration of how when history is complicated, it can be a gift to propagandists who exploit the appeal of simplicity.
It's excellent.
We're going to be relitigating the 1980s’ Deschênes Commission at the rate we’re going. While there are clear public-interest arguments for opening most of the redacted files, I’m not interested in litigating that proposition here. But it's really sad that it's come to this. And dangerous.
“The result of all this is that otherwise intelligent people are now trying to outdo each other in a chorus of evidence-free condemnation,” Giles writes.
Russian war criminals are turning Ukraine into a giant crimes-against-humanity crime scene, right now, and there’s a move afoot to reopen Judge Jules Deschênes’ Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals in Canada, from the time of Second World War.
“It’s true that [Jaroslav] Hunka should never have been invited into Canada’s House of Commons. But that’s not because he himself might be guilty of any crime. Rightly or wrongly, on an issue so toxic, it was inevitable the invitation would provide a golden opportunity for Russian propaganda.”
And it has done just that.

Where we left off. . .

Without inviting subscribers to get their hate on with Canada’s “MSM,” I have to say something out loud: The Parliamentary press gallery should share some of the profoundly shy-making discomfort that MPs from every party have been made to endure by becoming objects of worldwide ridicule owing to the Yom Kippur Eve incident.
’ll have some sensitive stuff on the other side of the paywall about all that. We’ve been lurched right back into the “Chrystia Freeland Lied About Her Nazi Past” fiction that was mainlined into the Canadian news media directly from Russia’s embassy in Ottawa on January 11, 2017. And yes, it was and remains a propaganda fiction.

. . . Worse, and even more crazy, Canada is being dragged even further back, to a Soviet-era dezinformatsiya operation aimed at pitting Jews and diaspora Ukrainians against one another. It was called Operation Payback. I’ll be on about its implications, and the sensitivities attending to it, for paying subscribers below.
Today it’s all here for all subscribers.
If something seems dropped into what follows out of nowhere you might want to pop back to Sunday’s newsletter to get yourself up to speed, but I don’t think that’ll be necessary.
Now, where was I. . .
This edition is open to all comers. But do subscribe, and it would be good of you to take out a paid sub.
Subscribed

Dezinformatsiya, by mistake & on purpose

The “monumental, unprecedented” embarrassment [Lev] Golinkin’s story caused would have been a brilliant Larry David script for Curb Your Enthusiasm: What! Their entire government gave a standing ovation to a Nazi?! I thought Canadians were supposed to be nice! Except it’s not funny, because the joke played out in the real world, in headlines right around the planet.
And while it was happening, in real time, it doesn’t seem to have occurred to anyone in the Parliamentary press gallery to just stop for a second and think: ‘Hey, wait. House Speaker Anthony Rota just singled out a Ukrainian “hero” in the visitors’ gallery who was fighting the Russians sometime between 1941 and 1945. But. . . wasn’t Russia on our side against the Nazis back then?
Not to get too nitpicky about historical context and nuance and all that, but we were on the same side as the Russians back then, and the Allies expended enormous propaganda effort during those days to convince everyone that Josef Stalin was one of the good guys. That’s whose side we were on.
Even so, if you know anything about the Holocaust, you’ll know why we don’t adversely judge our “allyship” with Stalin between 1941 and 1945. But now you’ll want to think about the suddenly infamous old man Yaroslav Hunka, who was a child when the genocidal Russians were killing between 3.5 million and 10 million of his people in Ukraine.
If you know anything about the Holdomor, you might not want to get too judgy about the moral choice the teenaged Hunka made to enlist with German forces he himself called “the new enemy,” in order to keep the old Russian enemy at bay.
There is no evidence that Hunka was some kind of bloodthirsty Jew killer, by the way, and because he was a Slav he would never have been permitted to join the pure “Aryan” Nazi Party anyway.
But this much is unambiguous: the First Ukrainian Division that Hunka volunteered to serve was commanded directly by the Nazis. The division was otherwise known as the Waffen-SS Galicia Division, also the SS 14th Waffen Division, because that’s what it was - a division of the Nazi Party’ savage military wing.
And that particular SS division [reportedly] committed unspeakable atrocities in its service of the Third Reich in Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia and elsewhere. In Ukraine, President Zelenskyy himself has gone out of his way to oppose commemorations of that same Galician Waffen SS division.
There are deep wounds that this whole thing has opened. Irwin Cotler, the former Canadian justice minister who is my lodestar at the Raoul Wallenberg Centre, pointed out that back in the late 1940s Galician SS veterans had an easier time of it getting into Canada than Jews did.
But there are also deep propaganda currents at work here, and you don’t make a lot of friends when you try to drill down into them. So I’ll start with some low-hanging fruit.

“False Flag” stupidity, and a problem in the newsroom

A couple of days after the House of Commons’ Mistake From Hell story broke, I was alerted to a vaguely familiar name showing up in respectable news media as an authority on Ukraine. Over the past week alone, University of Ottawa professor Ivan Katchanovski has appeared in the Ottawa Citizen, the Canadian Press and the Globe and Mail. Oh, that guy, it suddenly occured to me.
This is the same Ivan Katchanovski who shows up on Moscow’s RT News, and Tehran’s Press TV and “Truthout” and other such swamps of disinformation. He’s best known for his concoction of the popular Putinist conspiracy theory that the Euromaidan protesters massacred by Kremlin puppet Viktor Yanukovych in 2014 were killed by far-right elements among the protesters themselves.
It was a “false flag” operation designed to kick off the “Revolution of Dignity” that led to the overthrow of Yanukovich, the thing that had so enraged Putin. My friend Cathy Young has done tremendous work unraveling this nonsense, in this exploration published in The Bulwark back in March.
This brings us to the Ottawa Citizen’s own David ********, so this is really, really touchy, because the Citizen takes up half of my weekly Postmedia effort.
First off, David is a fine reporter on Canadian military issues, the go-to guy for a lot of Armed Forces stories. It’s a beat that isn’t exactly crawling with journalists, so there we are. The thing is, David can also be a bit of a handful, shall we say. He’s been one of the loudest voices in the Look! Ukrainian Nazis! chorus that puts such a spring in the step of Vladimir Putin’s warmongering apologists.
Back in April, David was the subject of a story in the Kyiv Post that ran under this headline: Canadian Journalist Branded ‘Undesirable Person’ in Ukraine. The story also cites an unnamed former senior Canadian official: “Glenn Greenwald, Tucker Carlson and others have been identified by media watchers – but ******** has not received the scrutinized attention that he should, as he is a potential risk, since it does appear that he is carrying water for the Kremlin.”
I offer no opinion. Real Story subscribers should read Kyiv Post story themselves if they want.

Who are you calling a Nazi?

I also highly, highly recommend freelancer Justin Ling’s substack newsletter from Tuesday: About the SS Officer in the Gallery: History is messy, horrible, complicated. All we can do is face it.
Apart from saving me a lot of effort and Real Story worldlength, Justin has done an amazing job of digging into Russian disinformation efforts in Canada. Takeaway line: “While there are occasions where crying ‘Nazi!’ should be the beginning and ending of the conversation, this isn’t one of them. So, rather than just weaponizing history, let’s try to unravel the past from the present.”
Lots of great spy-versus-spy stuff in there, too.
The SS Officer in the gallery story should not be expected to go away, anytime soon. There’s much about the past and the present that might soon unravel altogether.
On Friday, I heard from the Jewish advocacy organization B’nai Brith. They’ve now joined forces with an impressive array of civil-society and diaspora groups in calling for action on a proposal they put to the Standing Committee on Access to Information back in February. They want full public disclosure of federal records on Nazi war criminals who found their way to Canada, and they want the establishment of a public archive of Canada’s Holocaust records, too.
Here’s who’s backing the move.


This is serious business. Separately, Shimon Koffer Fogel of the Centre for Jewish and Israel Affairs says that the Hunka incident in the House suggests that Canada’s War Crimes Program should “review and consider any new evidence that has come to light from the release of archival material that further implicates those who committed wartime atrocities who are living in Canada.”
There’s a measured, wise standpoint. But if the B’nai Brith coalition succeeds - and fair play to them - the effort could threaten to upset the bonds that bind Jewish Canadians and Ukrainian Canadians. If Canada weren’t such an unserious country nowadays, that might not be something to worry about happening.
But what’s on the table now is effectively a relitigation of the Deschênes Commission of the 1980s, which was supposed to settle questions about Nazis in our midst. One shudders to think how much hay Russia would successfully make of that.

Operation Payback

To get deep down into the unsettling questions at hand, subscribers would want to read Herbert Romerstein’s expansive analysis, Divide and Conquer: The KGB disinformation campaign against Ukrainians and Jews.
It would be far too simplistic to suggest that the anxieties and agitiations that led to the Deschênes Commission were a function of Soviet-era “active measures” pitting Jews and Ukrainians against one another. But Moscow did expend an astonishing degree of resources to inflame those tensions and feed those anxieties, and the KGB was happy with the payoff.
Just pointing this out can be like stepping into a minefield. The National Post was drawn into the arguments earlier this year for publishing an excerpt of a book by the Royal Canadian Military College professor Lubomyr Luciuk, co-authored by Volodymyr Viatrovych, titled Enemy Archives: Soviet Counterinsurgency Operations and the Ukrainian Nationalist Movement: Selections from the Secret Police Archives.
The KGB’s main target in Canada: The Galician SS division that Yaroslav Hunka joined as a teenager.
The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Centre was not happy with the National Post. FSWC Director of Allyship and Community Engagement Daniel Panneton: “Democracies of the world have stood with Ukraine in the face of Russian President Vladimir Putin's unprovoked and aggressive war, but solidarity cannot tolerate Holocaust distortion and the glorification of Nazi collaborators.”
My friend Sean Maloney, also a history professor at the RCMC, wrote an extensive review of Enemy Archives, and here’s a couple of his conclusions. The KGB’s Operation Payback was strangely successful. And it’s especially threatening now, in light of Moscow’s insistence that its war crimes in Ukraine are all in aid of a “de-Nazification” of the country. “This is exactly what the Russia of Vladimir Putin is doing today vis-à-vis Ukraine. Indeed, resurrecting this Cold War-era controversy and attacking scholars that examine it even serves Russian objectives today.”
The Deschênes Commission, and the RCMP, spent a good deal of effort looking into the role the Galician SS played in the war. Both investigations found that its members had been properly screened before their admission to Canada, and that there was no evidence implicating them in war crimes.
That doesn’t mean that Canada’s Jewish advocacy organizations don’t have a point about releasing all the commission’s redacted files and establishing a publicly-accessible repository of Holocaust archives.
But like I said, in one of the first newsletters in the Real Story archive: Solidarity, unity and morale are important. Hearts and minds matter.
Ukraine matters.
 
People nowadays forget that the HBC through it's charter protected the Western Canadian FN's for quite some time, due to their ban on missionaries and settlers. It was only the decimation of the Beavers and incursions by the NWC that forced HBC to build trading posts inland and start to change the dynamic.
 
And in the 1850’s, it was the influx of American miners and prospectors during the Fraser River and Cariboo Gold Rushes that forced London to create Crown colonies on Vancouver Island and British Columbia to exert British authority on the newcomers. Otherwise I’m sure the HBC would have been more than happy to continue on the pre-colonial arrangement. It also explains one reason why the Crown didn’t attempt to go into treaties with indigenous peoples west of the Rockies until after colonial authority. The other reason why treaty making was stopped after the Douglas Treaties was bloody mindedness and racism on the part of the colonial administrators and legislators after James Douglas left the Governor’s office.
 
One of their own (and someone involved in the original Deschenes process) calling for more openness (archived link here in case previous link doesn't work)....
A former federal justice minister says the “failure of indifference and inaction” over Canada’s history with Nazis in the country likely contributed to Parliament’s unknowing recognition of a Nazi veteran in the House of Commons last week, and that he wants to see nearly 40-year-old documents on suspected war criminals living in Canada unsealed.

(...)

The incident caused outrage and embarrassment, both domestically and internationally, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has since apologized on behalf of all Parliamentarians.

It has also renewed calls to unseal portions of the report from the Deschênes Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals(opens in a new tab), a 1985 probe into more than 800 cases of people accused of committing war crimes and suspected of having escaped to Canada following the Second World War. Much of the inquiry’s findings and final report remain redacted.

Irwin Cotler — a former federal justice minister who also served as chief counsel to the Canadian Jewish Congress during the Deschênes Commission — told CTV’s Question Period host Vassy Kapelos in an interview airing Sunday that he has long been calling for more of the inquiry’s report to be unsealed.

(...)

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Minister Marc Miller said on his way into a Liberal caucus meeting earlier this week that declassifying some of the records is something "we could possibly examine again," but that "not being privy to what is in those documents," he can't say either way whether he supports the idea.
Also, during this podcast ....
... one of the commentators (Conservative insider) says, if I understand it correctly, there was a Liberal caucus meeting before PMJT's apology where there was some concern expressed re: whether an apology would imply liability/culpability or something like that. If this is true, WTSFF? Anybody else heard about this caucus meet (can't find anything in MSM).
 
I know we don't like double posting here but I am including the link to @FJAG's Der Spiegel article as a reference.

This paragraph caught my eye as relevant to the Hunka discussion...

Polish President Lech Kaczyński .... In contrast to (Latvian President ca 2008) Zatlers, the archconservative Polish law professor had clear conceptions about who his enemies were: "Dangers? That would be our neighbors – Russia and Germany."

One-time Solidarność activist Kaczyński was arrested when the communist regime in Warsaw imposed martial law with the support of Moscow. His parents had fought against Nazi Germany in the 1944 Warsaw Uprising. Stalin's advancing Red Army paused combat operations before entering the Polish capital, giving the Nazis the time they needed to complete their destruction of the uprising and the city.
 
If I understand my Ukrainian friends and associates there is a divide between, essentially, the Ukrainians who escaped the Tsars and those who escaped Stalin. Different views, different churches, different parties.
 
If I understand my Ukrainian friends and associates there is a divide between, essentially, the Ukrainians who escaped the Tsars and those who escaped Stalin. Different views, different churches, different parties.
And during the cold war, different community halls (pro- and anti-Communist). A bit of the same with the Finns I'm told, too.
... I also wasn’t aware that we gave a Nazi soldier the Order of Canada back in the 80s.
He also used to be Chancellor of UofA in the mid-80's, as well as leading a pretty major anti-Communist expat organization around the same timeframe ...
 
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