Saving Money in the PRes (From: The Defence Budget)

[OldSolduer]

On the other hand, returning the Sigs branch to field signals and relying on civilians and contractors for in garrison networking would save a considerable chunk of change and free up Reg F PYs for other purposes.

Agreed. Maybe we could disband the Reserve Signals and give those PYs to the Reg Force Sigs. And then send them to the field.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

You wouldn't get 5K for 20K.  Reg F pay is $100M/week for 68K.  Thus, for 5K Reg F you need to find $7.3M/week, or $380M annually.  Shutting the Army Reserve completely (around 20K) wouldn't save that much.


On the other hand, returning the Sigs branch to field signals and relying on civilians and contractors for in garrison networking would save a considerable chunk of change and free up Reg F PYs for other purposes.

I don't think you'll see the saving there. Civilians and contractors make more than military counterparts in the signals side. Best we could hope for there is that SSC is able find efficiencies in network consolidation in the federal government that we would not need so many people to run what systems we have (3000 separate network enclaves in the federal government, with DND by the far the worst offender).

I would like to see reserve sigs changed into additional reg force sigs. The cost of actually providing valid and current equipment 23ish reserve units rather than the 5ish major signals units in the regular force means we won't see a return on the investment. Why keep training reserves on equipment that the regular force stopped relying on a decade ago?

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs-report-plan-priorities/2013-other-reserve-force.page

Total Primary Reserve Cost (Reservists, Regular Support, Facilities, Vehicles, Equipment, Clothing, Ammunition - All Services)  $1,366,731,000 for 2012-2013
Authorized Strength Army PRres - 19,471 2013

The average paid strength of the Primary Reserve reported on 31 October 2011
for 31 August 2011 was:
Army Reserve 18,845
Naval Reserve 3,548
Air Reserve 2,181
CANSOFCOM, JAG, Health Services Reserves 2,483
Total Primary Reserve 26,997

A few numbers for consideration.

 

[MilEME09]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-reports-pubs-report-plan-priorities/2013-other-reserve-force.page

Total Primary Reserve Cost (Reservists, Regular Support, Facilities, Vehicles, Equipment, Clothing, Ammunition - All Services)  $1,366,731,000 for 2012-2013
Authorized Strength Army PRres - 19,471 2013

A few numbers for consideration.

That said how many of those are in long term Class B positions? I'm all for giving a reservist opportunities however is the cost worth it to give some one from say BC a 3 or 4 year contract in Ottawa? While the reserve do augment the reg force, it should be the goal from a cost perspective to keep those long term contracts to a minimum if not make them near non-existant by filling them with reg force staff. I believe this can be done without additional recruitment, but by simple redistribution of personal, we all know there are some places that have more people then they need.

 

[dapaterson]

P Res cost figures are not accurate.  There is no segregation of full time Res positions in Reg F units, and the cost attribution is arbitrary and unvalidated (until recently, about 20% of Leo I costs were charged to the P Res, as were 100% of the Bison costs)

In other words, never trust DND accounting.

 

[Kirkhill]

.....In other words, never trust DND accounting.

Well! Ain't that speshul.

Note:  In any further discussions I must refrain from bothering to bring any metrication to the table.  In future, it seems, unsubstantiated opinion will serve at least as well as any discussion based on official data.

:

Please tell me there is an accurate set of books, hidden someplace, that everyone agrees on.  The alternative is much more unpalatable.

 

[Edward Campbell]

P Res cost figures are not accurate.  There is no segregation of full time Res positions in Reg F units, and the cost attribution is arbitrary and unvalidated (until recently, about 20% of Leo I costs were charged to the P Res, as were 100% of the Bison costs)

In other words, never trust DND accounting.

Even though some miserable SOB stole several of them from the militia's allotment in order to put the Army's Tac EW Sqn "under armour."

 

[PuckChaser]

Even though some miserable SOB stole several of them from the militia's allotment in order to put the Army's Tac EW Sqn "under armour."

They can have them back. Bison EW vehicles are next to useless.

 

[Edward Campbell]

They're still there?!?  :not-again:

 

[PuckChaser]

They're still there?!?  :not-again:

EW Bisons were "forgot" when the new projects came out to replace the Bison fleet. Rumint now is that the who fleet of 16 will be replaced by LAVUP and TAPVs. Which is great, because with a bigger vehicle the EW project pers will be able to fit bigger kit into the hull and max out another vehicle's weight limit.

 

[dapaterson]

Well! Ain't that speshul.

Note:  In any further discussions I must refrain from bothering to bring any metrication to the table.  In future, it seems, unsubstantiated opinion will serve at least as well as any discussion based on official data.

:

Please tell me there is an accurate set of books, hidden someplace, that everyone agrees on.  The alternative is much more unpalatable.

I am saying that the numbers DND reports must be reviewed with a jaundiced eye.  They provide a start point for discussion but the devil, as always, is in the details.



Or, to put it another way: Having been engaged in the production of some such numbers for reports, I know how much faith to put in them.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Wow! They were meant to a very temporary, stopgap measure until the EW Sqn got its proper share of LAVs ...  :

 

[OldSolduer]

EW Bisons were "forgot" when the new projects came out to replace the Bison fleet. Rumint now is that the who fleet of 16 will be replaced by LAVUP and TAPVs. Which is great, because with a bigger vehicle the EW project pers will be able to fit bigger kit soldiers into the hull and max out another vehicle's weight limit.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Haggis]

Please tell me there is an accurate set of books, hidden someplace, that everyone agrees on.  The alternative is much more unpalatable.

The official source for numbers (not budget figures) for Res F strength is D Res.

There is a Major there whose sole purpose in life (it seems sometimes -  she does other things, as well) is to produce the monthly report on P Res numbers which are then reported through to Parliament.  It's a daunting and complicated task to gather the data from a myriad of different sources and then separate information from misinformation and disinformation to produce a "best guess" of Res F authorized strength, effective strength and average paid strength each month.

 

[Journeyman]

The official source for numbers (not budget figures) for Res F strength is D Res.

There is a Major there whose sole purpose in life.... is to produce a "best guess" of Res F authorized strength, effective strength and average paid strength each month.

Do we really require a Major to do an RMS MCpl's job?  Oh right, NDHQ.

 

[Old Sweat]

Do we really require a Major to do an RMS MCpl's job?  Oh right, NDHQ.

What does he do the other 29.5 days?

 

[Kirkhill]

I am saying that the numbers DND reports must be reviewed with a jaundiced eye.  They provide a start point for discussion but the devil, as always, is in the details.



Or, to put it another way: Having been engaged in the production of some such numbers for reports, I know how much faith to put in them.

DAP - It's not personal.  It's frustration.

I am a strong supporter of the system.  I try to go out of my way to give the system the benefit of the doubt.  But it gets increasingly difficult to help those who will not help themselves.

 

[dapaterson]

Departmental IM/IT systems are not configured to differentiate between Bloggins working full time at the Buckshot Fusiliers in support of a Reserve unit, and Bloggins working full time for the VCDS on a non-Reserve related activity; so both Blogginses are reported as "Reserve expenditures" to Parliament.

 

[OldSolduer]

Do we really require a Major to do an RMS MCpl's job?  Oh right, NDHQ.

Where majors are quite happy to sell stuff from kiosks with huge smiles on their faces. In a normal unit the kit shop corporals do that task.....

 

[Haggis]

Do we really require a Major to do an RMS MCpl's job?  Oh right, NDHQ.

As simple as this exercise may seem, it's not. There are several sources of both complementary and contradictory information on Reserve strength across the CAF.  Each system owner claims theirs is the correct and most accurate source of data and will fight vigorously to defend it. 

Simply put, that's bollocks. See dapaterson's post, above, which alludes to just one dynamic this Major faces when trying to reconcile Reserve Force paid strength.  That's why the weight of a Major, with a full Colonel and BGen backstop, is required to get the most right (not neccesarily the correct) data from the force generators.

A Naval or Air Reservists quite often can parade on Class A, B and C within one month.  Therefore, without this Major's efforts to achieve (note I didn't say "ensure") accuracy, this member could/would be reported as three separate paid members.  Repeat this error on a scale of hundreds each month and the problem with data quality becomes glaringly apparent.

Journeyman:  still want to leave this mess in the hands of a MCpl?