Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates

[Colin Parkinson]

Found a better solution to the problem than Mers-el-Kebir 1940.  This one is more in keeping with French sensibilities.

Auckland 1985

The irony would be strong in that one, leave a Greenpeace flag as well..... 8)

 

[MilEME09]

Defense News

Makes me wonder what kind of long term consequences this will have for France given the situation in Ukraine

 

[CougarKing]

Controversial France-Russia Warship Step Closer To Completion

SAINT PETERSBURG, RUSSIA — A controversial French-Russian warship project that has been decried by NATO came a step closer to completion on Thursday when the stern of the helicopter carrier was dispatched to France.

The Baltiysky shipyard in Russia said it had begun towing the stern of the Mistral-class carrier to the STX shipyard in St. Nazaire on the French Atlantic coast.

The French shipyard will weld the stern to the hull before delivering the finished warship to the Russian navy at the end of next year. A second carrier has already been completed and is due to be delivered to Russia later this year.

(...EDITED)

Defense News

 

[Jungle]

I visited the Mistral a few days ago, nice ship. It's not as big as some of the other amphibs I have been on, but it would be perfect for us, should we decide to give ourselves such a capacity.

 

[ModlrMike]

MISTRAL is currently alongside in the same city I'm in. Certainly qualifies as a BHS*, and something we could, perhaps should have considered.


* BHS = big honkin' ship

 

[CougarKing]

More talk about NATO or the EU acquiring the Mistrals in place of Russia:

Interest Rises in EU Acquisition of Mistrals Sold to Russia

PARIS — The idea that the European Union — not Russia — would acquire two French Mistral-class helicopter carriers already sold to Moscow is gaining ground as the West adopted a ban against future arms deals to Russia, and the energy and financial sectors, analysts said.

On Tuesday , the EU adopted a tier 3 batch of sanctions — for the first time aimed at whole sectors rather than selected asset freezes — while excluding the controversial €1.2 billion (US $1.6 billion) contract for the Mistral warships.

Dual-use, civil-military equipment was included in the punitive measures, which are seen as pushing the Russian economy closer to recession and as a hit to fragile economies in Western Europe.

Paris has been quietly looking for an acceptable solution, with the EU seen as a possible exit from the contentious arms contract with Russia.

(...EDITED)

German officials wonder how the Mistral problem can be resolved, a second analyst said.

Despite the highly public criticism of France, the EU has accepted that the Mistral deal would go forward.

One possibility is the EU taking up the Mistral contract.

“It is being discussed in Paris as an option,” Tétreau said. “It is gaining traction in Paris. There are diplomats and politicians in Paris who see that as a possibility.”

The EU has ample financial means, with the official seven-year budget set at €1 trillion, he said. One of the ships could be based at the docks shared by Belgium and the Netherlands, and the second vessel in the Mediterranean, he said.

An alternative would be NATO, which has the infrastructure and mandate, he said.

If the EU were to make the move, there is the European Defence Agency (EDA), which has the pooling-and-sharing approach for the member states. That could be a financial system for acquiring military platforms, he said.


(...SNIPPED)


Source:

Defense News

 

[MilEME09]

More talk about NATO or the EU acquiring the Mistrals in place of Russia:

if the EU or NATO as a whole buy it, they may then sell it to a member state or friendly allies in which can it may open the door to CAnada getting a LHD for cheap

 

[acen]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29052599

Ukraine crisis: France halts warship delivery to Russia France has said conditions are "not right" for delivery of the first of two Mistral assault navy ships to Russia.

President Francois Hollande's office blamed Moscow's recent actions in Ukraine.

France had until now resisted pressure to halt the delivery.

Correspondents say the EU has struggled to tighten sanctions against Russia, restricting itself to travel bans and asset freezes against individuals.

 

[GR66]

Total pipedream I know, but I wonder if we were to purchase a mix of Gowind OPV's and Combat Corvettes from DCNS (http://en.dcnsgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/180561.pdf) to replace our Kingston and Halifax class ships and reduced the scope of the CSC project to just replace the Iroquois class, they would give us a super-sweet deal on the 2nd Russian Mistral.  Their company would still get nice business out of the deal and it would help get the French out of a sticky political situation.

 

[CougarKing]

No rejoicing quite yet since here's a further clarification as posted by ERC in the Ukraine crisis thread: it's only a halting of one of the vessels. The 2nd one will still be delivered on schedule next year. 

:facepalm:

According to a report in the National Post:

"France is suspending the delivery of a hulking warship to Russia amid security concerns about Moscow’s actions in neighbouring Ukraine ... The Vladivostok, the first of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers ordered by Russia, was to be delivered next month. The second — named Sevastopol, ironically, after a port in Russian-annexed Crimea — has been slated for delivery next year."

 

[CougarKing]

And more clarification: it's technically not even a "halt". It's only been suspended till NOVEMBER.

:facepalm:

BBC

France faces huge Mistral bill for halting Russia deal

(...EDITED)

A French diplomat earlier said the contract was suspended until November, and the delay "could cost us 1bn euros".

The deal is worth 1.2bn euros - and Russia is reported to have paid most of it, so breach of contract would mean France having to reimburse that money.

(...EDITED)

 

[CougarKing]

The Vladivostok leaves for sea trials.

First Mistral-Class Ship Built for Russia Sets Off for Sea Trials: Reports

The Mistral-class helicopter carrier, the Vladivostok, carrying some 200 Russian sailors on Saturday left the French port of Saint-Nazaire to pass a series of tests.

The Vladivostok had left docks at 3:30 a.m. local time (1:30 GMT), but was forced to wait until the tide thus eventually sailing out to sea at 7:20 a.m. (5:20 GMT) accompanied by two tugboats, Agence France-Presse reported.

This is the first time the ship goes to sea since its arrival to Saint-Nazaire in June where two crews of Russian sailors, a total of 400 crew members, have been awaiting sea trials.

(...SNIPPED)

Last week, France threatened to suspend the supply of the helicopter carriers, linking its decision to the crisis in Ukraine, claiming Moscow’s direct involvement. Later, a French government spokesman told RIA Novosti that the delivery of the ship is not officially suspended and that French President Francois Hollande was simply outlining his political stance. Hollande stated he would not approve of the transfer of the vessel in November should the situation in Ukraine not improve. Hollande later stated he would make the decision in late October.

(...SNIPPED)

Source: RIA Novosti

 

[CougarKing]

In the event that Hollande won't deliver the ships to Russia in some unforeseen escalation of the Ukraine conflict:

Opinion: A Mistral For Canada

By: Jim Dorschner
September 19, 2014 [/font]

Mistral-class ship, 'Sevastopol' configured as a NATO/Canadian Navy ship. CASR Image


While France desperately wants to complete the two amphibious warships - and get paid for them - NATO and Canada need the capabilities these ships can provide.

For Canada, an LPH would help buttress logistic support for the upcoming Canadian Joint Support Ship (JSS). The replacement to Canada's fleet oilers originally required a level of expeditionary capabilities which were ultimately not included in the final ship design.

The second Russian Mistral - slated for delivery in 2016 - would be operated by the RCN on a renewable five-year lease, based on the East Coast at Halifax. Under terms of the lease, this LPH would share commitments between NATO and Canadian national taskings.


The joint and combined multirole capabilities an LPH can provide the RCN include:

* Amphibious and SOF support, including NEO and CSAR operations;

* Humanitarian response - transporting and operating equipment, including landing craft, boats, helicopters and vehicles, while offering medical facilities and serving as an afloat base and operational HQ

* Arctic operations support - serving as a forward deployed afloat base for multi-agency sovereignty operations and exercises and for combined exercises and operations with US, Danish and Norwegian forces; SAR response to air and maritime disasters; and duty as a platform for regional development and law enforcement activities

* Task Force flagship/mothership for anti-piracy, sea control, ASW and other maritime operations

* Training and Engagement - serving as the RCN training ship; and as a platform for regional engagement missions, embarking training teams and equipment for cruises tailored to the training needs of friendly forces in areas such as the Caribbean, Central America and West Africa.

* Transport of vehicles, aircraft, equipment, containers and personnel in support of global deployments.


United States Naval Institute

 

[cameron]

Looking at the comments on this thread it's apparent that I'm not the only one who's been thinking that Canada should buy at least one of these ships.

 

[jollyjacktar]

In the event that Hollande won't deliver the ships to Russia in some unforeseen escalation of the Ukraine conflict:

We could be so lucky. 

 

[GR66]

I think a Mistral would be an excellent purchase for Canada.  It would allow us to provide Command and Control capability for various Task Force deployments like the Arabian Gulf, etc.  We could use it to excellent effect for humanitarian relief with both the Role 3 hospital and the vast storage capability for supplies and helicopter/landing craft transport.  It would be an excellent ASW platform for convoy duty in case of our involvement in a major conflict.  And it would allow us to deploy and support our own modest ground forces in lower-intensity conflicts while keeping our in-country footprint smaller by having HQ capabilities off shore.

DCNS is the ship builder of the Mistral and as I've mentioned previously they also have the Gowind family of Corvettes (http://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/les-corvettes-et-opv-de-la-famille-gowind) for which they sell the design for production at local shipyards.  I wonder if they would be willing to make some kind of deal on the 2nd Russian Mistral in return for Irving using a Gowind design for the NSPS program (understanding that a true AAW/Command Frigate design would then have to become a separate project if deemed necessary for the RCN).

 

[MilEME09]

As much of it being a waste of its capabilities, without our AOR's a mistral could atleast resupply dry goods to the rest of the fleet, and hold lots of em

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I think it would be really interesting if France offered to buy 2-3 AOPS as an offset....thus eliminating a bunch of the political hesitation over making a deal.


M.

 

[Cloud Cover]

A lot more information would need to be known about these 2 particular vessels in the Mistral class. After all, these 2 in particular were built for the Russian Navy, not the Canadian Navy or any other NATO maritime force.

Are the crew accommodations able a fit for our multi-gender navy?
Are the electronics, cabling and related hardware NATO standard or Russian Standard.
What type of fuel is used for the main engines [what are the main engines>>> are they standard Mistral fit or something else/
Are the hangar spaces able to accommodate our helicopters or Russian helicopters- ie, have they been modified?
...and the list could go on and on.....

And besides all of that, the RCN is having problems crewing the diminishing fleet that it already has, let alone actually cutting steel for supply ships and the like.

In my opinion, forget about these cursed Franco-Russian ships, stay focused on the few ships in good working order that are currently being semi-upgraded in the fleet, and maybe let the dream live on in the half assed sort of way that things are currently happening, but settle on lower expectations of no more than 6 or 8 new, fairly useless "combatant" ships + 2 oilers that "may" materialize over the next 20 years. 

Not meaning to be a pessimist, just being realistic and pragmatic>>> this is Canada, unfortunately now rapidly becoming a "pretend" naval power.






   
 

 

[daftandbarmy]

A lot more information would need to be known about these 2 particular vessels in the Mistral class. After all, these 2 in particular were built for the Russian Navy, not the Canadian Navy or any other NATO maritime force.

Oh come on now, we have an excellent track record when it comes to buying used vessels from Euro Navies.