Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates

[Baz]

OGBD: geez, maybe someone should write a service paper :nod:

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Unfortunately, for some unexplained reason, higher HQ don't like getting service papers from retired members. Go figure  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Unfortunately, for some unexplained reason, higher HQ don't like getting service papers from retired members. Go figure  ;D

Nothing stopping you from submitting a paper to one of the Journals.

 

[Baz]

I wasn't just saying you should, but since you seem to want to volunteer:
- write an unsolicited proposal
- form a company to support the Mistrals (it doesn't really need to actually be able to DO anything)
- subcontract MIL Davie AND Irving
- ensure you have suppliers from every corner and representative group of Canada (even if all they do is supply empty boxes)
- IMPORTANT: crystal ball the next election and ensure you get the right balance of ridings covered (hint: focus on ministerial ones)
- hire some grey beards that are well connected to host dinner parties for you
- hire some more grey beards to come up with good names; and make connections to the RCN of 50 years ago.  Just to cover your bases, get some more grey beards for the Army and RCAF (heck, its supposed to be a JOINT ship anyway)
- get France, the UK, and the US to all say what a great idea it is; if you can swing Germany, Australia, Italy, Japan even better (why aren't you at the G7 already)
- and watch the $$$ flow in... oh wait a sec; could you please ensure the original reason we were doing this is met, even though I can't remember it now; wasn't it something about making the RCN the best navy in the world or something... it'll come to me I'm sure

There, now everybody wins; its BETTER when you're retired!  :blotto:

 

[Edward Campbell]

The International Business Times reports that "Russia and France have finally agreed on the refund amount of the ill-fated Mistral helicopter landing ship deal that was canceled after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014, according to a Kremlin aide cited by the Pro-Russian news website Sputnik. The fate of the two fully built ships has been uncertain over the last 16 months, with French President Francois Hollande reluctant to complete the $1.2 billion sale while Russian-backed rebels in Ukraine refused to abide by February’s Minsk II ceasefire agreement ... "The talks have been completed, everything is settled,” Vladimir Kozhin, President Vladimir Putin's aide on military-technical cooperation, said Thursday. “The schedule and the amount, which Paris will repay to Moscow [is decided]. I hope that an agreement on the termination of the contract will be signed very soon, and we will be able to announce the sum that France will pay us.”"

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect if we showed an interest in these ships we could offer up some very interesting fiscal arrangements, including a lease to buy, training arrangements, equipment purchases, etc

 

[McG]

But, France denies that a compensation deal has been reached with Russia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33730700

 

[McG]

A few days later and now France is saying there is a deal.

Mistral warships: Russia and France agree compensation deal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33798102

 

[Edward Campbell]

This article, which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Financial Times, doesn't even mention Canada when it discusses how France might dispose of the the two Mistral class ships. India and Turkey are mentioned as possible markets:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1cace11e-3c37-11e5-bbd1-b37bc06f590c.html#axzz3i7v48Axk

For sale: two French warships with a negotiable price

Michael Stothard in Paris

August 6, 2015

For sale: two Mistral-class helicopter carriers worth €1.2bn. Good condition. Price negotiable.

France has extricated itself from one of its trickier diplomatic binds after it finally agreed to break a contract with Russia over the sale of two 21,000 tonne warships. Now it is facing a new dilemma: what to do with them?

The two vessels, which can each hold 600 troops and 16 attack helicopters but cost millions of euros a month to keep at port, had been sold to Russia, which even sent sailors to western France to train on them.

But tensions over the Ukraine crisis prompted France to halt delivery late last year under pressure from EU allies and Washington.

On Wednesday evening the two countries finally cancelled the contract, meaning the cash-strapped French government will have to take ownership of the ships and reimburse all of the money paid.

Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French defence minister, on Thursday said there was no cause for worry. There were “a number of countries” that had expressed an interest in buying the ships, he said.

But according to analysts, that may not be so simple. The government needs a buyer who will want two foreign-built warships at short notice and at a price not too far below the Russian one.

The problem is that of the 13 countries in the world that have stated a need for this grade of ship over the next decade, only India and Turkey want delivery in the next few years, according to an analysis by IHS Jane’s.

And in both countries there is a political lobby demanding that the ships be built locally, not imported. India, the world’s biggest importer of military ships, for example, this year said that all military ships would now be assembled locally.

Ben Moores, senior defence analyst at IHS Jane’s, said that the main challenge for France was not finding interested parties – as there are always countries willing to talk or negotiate – but price.

There is “not a chance”, he argued, that France would recoup the €1.2bn that Russia paid. “The problem they are going to face is they are going to have to reduce the price significantly,” he said.

Given its own budget pressures, France may come under pressure to sell relatively fast, since the cost of keeping each ship runs into the millions of euros each month. The French state had considered just sinking the vessels, according to newspaper reports last year.

The French government, which undertook the sale in 2011 under former president Nicolas Sarkozy when relations with Moscow were warmer, is already facing a minor political backlash over the cost of cancelling the contract.

Thierry Mariani, a deputy in parliament for the centre-right Republicans party, criticised the government’s decision, adding that the cost to the taxpayer could run as high as €1.6bn.

This takes into account the €1.2bn returned to Russia and what Mr Mariani says is €200 to €300m for what he called the “derussification” of the ship, meaning the removal of customised equipment that had been installed on board.

The removal job is set to be carried out by a Russian team in September, according to a Russian news agency. The French government said that it would inform parliament in due course about the exact cost.

Marine Le Pen, the head of the far-right National Front party, on Thursday said that the cancellation “seriously discredited France” in international business dealing and that “the taxpayer bleeds” as a result of the decision.

The Mistral-class ships, which are for the moment called Sevastopol and Vladivostok, may be a bitter pill to swallow. But the French government has otherwise been on a roll selling defence equipment this year.

It has signed €10bn worth of contracts with Egypt and Qatar for its Rafale fighter jet along with a €4bn agreement with India. Before that the 27-year-old jet had not won a single export order.

As the article notes, the jobs! Jobs!! JOBS!!! notion is strong in Turkey and India, too.

 

[tomahawk6]

I bet the PRC ends up buying them.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Interesting although I wonder if it's just the French whispering into peoples ears

http://www.france24.com/en/20150807-france-mistral-warship-egypt-saudi-arabia-repurchase

 

[CougarKing]

Most of the article from above: the Saudis looking at amphibious operations in Yemen or the Persian Gulf?

France 24

Egypt, Saudi Arabia ‘desperate’ to purchase Mistral warships

Text by FRANCE 24
Latest update : 2015-08-07
Egypt and Saudi Arabia are interested in buying two French Mistral warships that had been sold to Russia before Paris scrapped the deal, French media reported Friday, citing an official French source.

"Egypt and Saudi Arabia are desperate to buy two Mistrals," an unnamed official French source told France’s leading daily, Le Monde. “King Salman of Saudi Arabia wants to build a fleet in Egypt which could project regional power in the Red Sea and Mediterranean," said the source. "Some countries in the region have displayed a marked interest in the Mistrals with the aim of establishing a [regional] maritime force.”

The report of Egyptian and Saudi interest in acquiring the two French-made warships came a day after French President François Hollande attended a ceremony marking the inauguration of a major Suez Canal extension in the Egyptian port city of Ismailia Thursday.

Speaking to reporters in Ismailia, Hollande said France would have “no difficulty” finding buyers for the Mistrals originally bound for Russia.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Malaysia and India as potential Mistral LHD buyers?

Reuters

France to discuss Mistral sale to Malaysia - source

Aug 25, 2015

France's defence minister will discuss the sale to Malaysia of one of the Mistral helicopter carriers originally destined for Russia during a visit to the country, a source familiar with the talks said, confirming a report on news website latribune.fr...

French President Francois Hollande confirmed on Tuesday that there were several potential buyers for the two Mistral. France cancelled the planned sale of the warships to Russia because of the Ukraine crisis.

(...SNIPPED)

Defense News

Rafale, Mistral on Agenda for Le Drian in Malaysia, India
By Pierre Tran 2:16 p.m. EDT August 26, 2015

PARIS — French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian is due to visit Malaysia on Sunday, with talks expected to cover the Rafale fighter jet and Mistral helicopter carrier, website La Tribune reported.

“During a visit of the defense minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, to Kuala Lumpur, where he will land this Sunday, the Malaysian air force could privately tell the minister a preference for the Rafale in the tender for 18 aircraft,” the website reported on Aug. 25.

France has made good progress on negotiations on the Rafale with Malaysia, particularly on the industrial offset, the report said. Le Drian is to go on to India after the Malaysia visit.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

More like trying to sell them to anyone

 

[CougarKing]

Moderators, perhaps it's about time we changed the title of the thread since they're not going to see service in Russia anymore? Perhaps "Two undelivered ex-Russian Mistrals for sale" might be a better title?

Defense News

UAE Confirms Interest in Mistral Ship

By Awad Mustafa 9:48 a.m. EDT September 4, 2015

DUBAI — A United Arab Emirates government official has confirmed to Defense News the government's interest in acquiring one of two French Mistral-class amphibious assault ships originally ordered by Russia in 2011.

France and Russia last month reached a political agreement to cancel the Mistral deal and Paris is paying back Moscow's advance payments on the two warships. France paid Russia more  than US $1 billion in compensation for the non-delivery.

"Our interest in purchasing the ship is real, it fulfils the capability requirements for our forces," the government source said. "The Mistral ships are in line with our equipment and capabilities."

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

hmmm more like a nice yacht

 

[CougarKing]

Seems this opportunity for Canada has sailed away...

Defence-Aerospace

Russia Approves Mistral Carrier Sale to Egypt, UAE
(Source: Egypt Independent; published Sept 03, 2015)

Russia has given France the green light to sell two Mistral helicopter carriers to Egypt and the United Arab Emirates. France was supposed to deliver the carriers to Russia before both countries terminated the contract last month.

According to a report by Russian-language newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets, quoted by Russia Today’s Arabic service, France paid Russia more than one billion euros in compensation for the non-delivery. The deal was terminated after Russia halted payments for the ships following the European sanctions imposed on the country for its alleged involvement in the political crisis in Ukraine.

Moskovsky Komsomolets quoted military sources as saying that Egypt had shown interest in purchasing the first carrier with the help of a Russian loan, while the UAE was interested in the second one.


(...SNIPPED)

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Seems this opportunity for Canada has sailed away...

Defence-Aerospace

We were never going to purchase the Mistrals, way too much risk to the NSPS if we did. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

And the "reports" continue still, if Google Translate is correct ....

.... Canada, India, Singapore and especially Egypt have expressed "serious" interest in buying the Mistral warships, including the sale by France to Russia was canceled, according to this account, reports today's news agencies.

(....)

As for the interest that Ottawa would have shown, it was confirmed the French side that Canada, even before the conclusion of the agreement of 5 August, took good contacts with France and was closely following the case of Mistral.

The answer to Canada's interest in the campaign for the legislative period from October to Ottawa where the spokesmen are discreet unfortunately was particularly terse, Ashley Dupire, spokesman for the Canadian Department of Defence, contententant to declare that "The Canadian Forces are not intended acquisition of these vessels at the moment" ....

 

[George Wallace]

The boats that just won't go away.  >