Rules on wearing individual uniform pieces outside of military events?

[aesop081]

DEUs can be worn without restrictions in Canada. No need for anyone's permission.
The "authorized to wear the uniform" box on the CF-100 relates to foreign travel; look closely.

Seen

 

[KLAVER]

to wear my deu to my grad i have to bring it up the chain of command, first starting with the csm.
Do u guys think it is a bad idea?

 

[Danjanou]

to wear my deu to my grad i have to bring it up the chain of command, first starting with the csm.
Do u guys think it is a bad idea?

Your call, it woud depend on how pro/anti military your school is I would think.

 

[Haggis]

If he's not signed in, should he be in uniform?

Taking your logic one step further, if he's not signed in (yet) should he be travelling to/from his unit in uniform?

If he's out doing ruck training, is it better for him to train in Reeboks or Mk III's?  Besides, if he's wearing Snoop Dog shorts, a Raptors shirt, Mk III's and a ruck, he'll present a poorer public image than if he were to wear CADPAT instead.

Common sense must prevail. 

CADPAT Pied Piper indeed.  ;D Call it "Getting the Most Return on Your Defence Dollar".

 

[dapaterson]

How about a quick look at the QR&Os - important guidance for Reservists particularly on this topic:


17.06 – WEARING OF UNIFORM – RESTRICTION

(1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.

(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:

(a) on service; or
(b) attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

(3) A former member of the Regular Force or Reserve Force, who was released for a reason other than misconduct may wear uniform:

(a) with the permission of an officer commanding a command or his designated authority and such other officers as may be designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff, when attending a military entertainment or ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate; and
(b) on other occasions with the permission of the Chief of the Defence Staff.

(Taken from http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol1/ch017_e.asp#17.06 at 09h47, 21 Mar 06)

Article 17.04 is also relevant to this discussion.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Taking your logic one step further, if he's not signed in (yet) should he be travelling to/from his unit in uniform?

If he's out doing ruck training, is it better for him to train in Reeboks or Mk III's?  Besides, if he's wearing Snoop Dog shorts, a Raptors shirt, Mk III's and a ruck, he'll present a poorer public image than if he were to wear CADPAT instead.

Common sense must prevail. 

CADPAT Pied Piper indeed.  ;D Call it "Getting the Most Return on Your Defence Dollar".

If he's on the way to parade, he is on duty.

We were always told that the regs say you can wear uniform for "brief stopovers" - that means going to work and coming from work. It doesn't mean dressing up like GI Joe to go walk around with your ruck.  I'd have no problem with the Snoop Dog shorts combined with Mk III boots and ruck, and no, I don't think he'd present a poor public image at all.  Whatever that means.

 

[George Wallace]

If he's on the way to parade, he is on duty.

We were always told that the regs say you can wear uniform for "brief stopovers" - that means going to work and coming from work. It doesn't mean dressing up like GI Joe to go walk around with your ruck.  I'd have no problem with the Snoop Dog shorts combined with Mk III boots and ruck, and no, I don't think he'd present a poor public image at all.  Whatever that means.

I agree Michael.  How many in the Bdes in Petawawa, Edmonton, Valcartier, or in Gagetown, have not seen someone out practicing for the BFT after hours dressed in Cbt Boots, PT dress and Ruck?  That is not a poor public image.......maybe a curious one......but not a poor one.

 

[Synthos]

so then:
MK IIIs + conservative dress + rucksack = technically not allowed, but practically allowed? (w.r.t. reservists)

 

[Michael Dorosh]

so then:
MK IIIs + conservative dress + rucksack = technically not allowed, but practically allowed? (w.r.t. reservists)

You can wear your boots and rucksack with any damn thing you want, just not the full uniform. But not to go camping with; if you are doing ruck training on your own time, go for it. 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

How about a quick look at the QR&Os - important guidance for Reservists particularly on this topic:


17.06 – WEARING OF UNIFORM – RESTRICTION

(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:

(a) on service; or
(b) attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

Just noticed this.  I think that nicely summarized what I was saying, thanks for posting it. Ruck training is not "on service."

 

[Haggis]

Just noticed this.  I think that nicely summarized what I was saying, thanks for posting it. Ruck training is not "on service."

So, if you cannot wear the uniform (or parts thereof... mixed kit and all that jazz...) to do PT, how does a Reservist train on his/her own time for something like a ruck march, Cambrian Patrol, CSOR selection, etc.??  Should not some common sense be applied or is this a cut-and-dried example of "the law is the law"?

I agree Michael.  How many in the Bdes in Petawawa, Edmonton, Valcartier, or in Gagetown, have not seen someone out practicing for the BFT after hours dressed in Cbt Boots, PT dress and Ruck?  That is not a poor public image.......maybe a curious one......but not a poor one.

On base for a Reg F troop is one thing, but as a Reservist you're doing the deed in the public eye, not within the confines of a supportive and understanding like minded community.

If he's on the way to parade, he is on duty.

Ever tried to charge a Class A reservist who hasn't signed in?  Ask a AJAG to define "on duty".  If he hasn't signed a pay sheet he's not "on duty" and, therefore, not subject to the CSD.

We were always told that the regs say you can wear uniform for "brief stopovers" - that means going to work and coming from work. It doesn't mean dressing up like GI Joe to go walk around with your ruck.  I'd have no problem with the Snoop Dog shorts combined with Mk III boots and ruck, and no, I don't think he'd present a poor public image at all.  Whatever that means.

If you're gonna train to be a soldier in the public eye than it is beholden upon you to deport yourself like a soldier, not a ruck packin' gangsta rapper.  Our dress regulations state quite clearly that items of military uniforms shall not be combined with civilian clothes.  Boots are issue kit.  The law is the law, right?

 

[chrisf]

So, if you cannot wear the uniform (or parts thereof... mixed kit and all that jazz...) to do PT, how does a Reservist train on his/her own time for something like a ruck march, Cambrian Patrol, CSOR selection, etc.??  Should not some common sense be applied or is this a cut-and-dried example of "the law is the law"?

That's one of the big Catch 22s of Class A fitness isn't it?

The letter of the law says I'm not allowed to use my ruck/combat boots to conduct PT on my own time (Assuming I'm willing to risk the liability inherent in conducting PT on my own time).

If I recall correctly, a CO can issue authorization to wear the uniform for class A reservists outside being signed in (Example, military member attending a funeral, wedding, or military member volunteering with cadets, etc) but a CO isn't going to issue authorization to wear the uniform to conduct PT, well, the might, but I doubt it, again, liabilities an all (To steal a quote from GO!!!, it's hard to do your job when you're covering your ass with both hands)

If you're gonna train to be a soldier in the public eye than it is beholden upon you to deport yourself like a soldier, not a ruck packin' gangsta rapper.  Our dress regulations state quite clearly that items of military uniforms shall not be combined with civilian clothes.  Boots are issue kit.  The law is the law, right?

I get irritated when I read the threads from the cadet forums and their arguing about whether they should be allowed to wear cadpat uniforms, or other sets of combats, and how to best differentiate themselves from military members, through the use of hat-badges, or different slip ons... unfortunately, I'm perfectly willing to bet if the average Joe Hoser Canadian sees somone in green or camouflaged clothes (Be they cadpat, marpat, woodland, or some bizarre urban scheme) and a pair of black boots, they are assumed to be in the army.

Conversely, I'm willing to bet that somone wearing a pair of combat boots and carrying a ruck, dressed in unrelated civilian attire (Say a pair of hiking shorts and a non-offensive t-shirt) is not going to be assumed to be in the army, at least not by the general population, rather, just a back-packer.

Either way, while the law is the law, the law still requires two parties, the chargee and the charger... anyone (And I'm 100% certain such individuals exist) willing to charge a reservist who's trying to better themselves by conducting PT *in a reasonable manner* simply because "the law is the law" needs to have their priorities re-examined.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

So, if you cannot wear the uniform (or parts thereof... mixed kit and all that jazz...) to do PT, how does a Reservist train on his/her own time for something like a ruck march, Cambrian Patrol, CSOR selection, etc.??  Should not some common sense be applied or is this a cut-and-dried example of "the law is the law"?

They come down to the Armouries properly dressed and sign in.  If they aren't approved for the days, then I guess they don't need to be training, otherwise, the CO would have approved it, hmm?  Though  I believe I recall a case of a unit that approved days for training for such an event that the CO allowed, where the guys showed up in ... PT gear and rucks.

You don't need to wear your uniform to march with a rucksack, and guess what, since it is against the regs, it's not an issue. Except apparently for you?  Don't get caught I guess is my best advice. 

We had a couple guys geared up for display at the Stampede; they missed the shuttle from the armouries so they walked down to the grounds.  I can't remember if they had weapons or not.  The police got called because someone jittery saw uniformed men walking around.  *shrugs* Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

On base for a Reg F troop is one thing, but as a Reservist you're doing the deed in the public eye, not within the confines of a supportive and understanding like minded community.

A great reason NOT to wear the uniform if you ask me.

Ever tried to charge a Class A reservist who hasn't signed in?  Ask a AJAG to define "on duty".  If he hasn't signed a pay sheet he's not "on duty" and, therefore, not subject to the CSD.

If you're gonna train to be a soldier in the public eye than it is beholden upon you to deport yourself like a soldier, not a ruck packin' gangsta rapper.

If you're on your own time, you're not "training."  Training is duty, and that's on the Queen's nickle. Right?

Our dress regulations state quite clearly that items of military uniforms shall not be combined with civilian clothes.  Boots are issue kit.  The law is the law, right?

You can wear anything with civvies as long as they don't have insignia on them. 

Push comes to shove, the quick answer is "don't train on your own time."  That's not a very satisfying answer.  So which rule are you going to bend?  The one about wearing boots with your civvies, or the one about wearing the full blown uniform in public when off duty?

I'll go with the boots.



[/quote]

 

[dapaterson]

Ever tried to charge a Class A reservist who hasn't signed in?  Ask a AJAG to define "on duty".  If he hasn't signed a pay sheet he's not "on duty" and, therefore, not subject to the CSD.

Haggis:

According to the National Defence Act, if you're in uniform, you are subject to the Code of Service Discipline, regardless of whether you've signed a paysheet.  Quote:

60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:
...
    (c) an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is
...
          (ii) in uniform,

(http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/N-5/text.html)

So another argument against doing things in uniform as a reservist while not signed in - you're subject to the CSD and not being paid.

 

[1feral1]

Really now, in many this thread is geting out of control, and some of the posts are unbelievable. Well MEN and LADIES, there is some things we all have (some more than others), and thats called common sense. Instead of asking the silly questions like a bunch of school-children, suck it up and soldier on.

Uniforms (dress of the day) should only be worn on duty, or to and from duty. This goes for Militia soldiers also going to and fro on a pde night or trg day. As for wedding funerals etc, thats fine too, but seek authorisation. Uniforms in pubs and where booze is served these days is more likely to cause friction with the general public, as we all know what booze will always do to some. You'll end up in shyte and thats a fact. End of story.

Personally, I wear PT gear to work, and at the end of the day, change back into it. I know who I am and what I do for a living, and I have no need to beat my chest and show off (seems some like the attention on here).

Time to suck it up and get over it. Be responsible and accountable. As for running in ruck mode, fine now, but later on when your back and knees begin to give out, just remember what caused it. How about following a proper PTI approved PT plan which keeps you fit, and does not DAMAGE your body, but will prepare your stamena for your long ruck marches.

Ruck march trg for Reservists on their own time, on some road, maybe poorly lit, or worse busy. Well what about duty of care? Say you get hit by a car on a road, ruck and all, then your injured or worse invalided or dead. You have a family? Compensation? A big grey area isn't it? It happens. No guides in safety vests and plenty of DH's on today roads and worse in the colder months. What would your Trg WOs do? If yo are going to do such trg, do it defence property, and authorised incase of injury.

Not to piss on someone's parade here, and I am far from a pencil necked safety geek, but again common sense prevails.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[chrisf]

As for running in ruck mode, fine now, but later on when your back and knees begin to give out, just remember what caused it. How about following a proper PTI approved PT plan which keeps you fit, and does not DAMAGE your body, but will prepare your stamena for your long ruck marches.

Ruck march trg for Reservists on their own time, on some road, maybe poorly lit, or worse busy. Well what about duty of care? Say you get hit by a car on a road, ruck and all, then your injured or worse invalided or dead. You have a family? Compensation? A big grey area isn't it? It happens. No guides in safety vests and plenty of DH's on today roads and worse in the colder months. What would your Trg WOs do? If yo are going to do such trg, do it defence property, and authorised incase of injury.

Sorry, but that doesn't work...

As a reservist, the military doesn't pay me to keep in shape, or more accurately, they don't provide me specificly with the time to do so, as such, I've got to do it on my own time.

I run on my own time,  because I need to do it to stay in shape. There's risks inherent there, but it's got to be done. For the same reason, if I were training for, say, the Njimeghan march, I'd have to ruck on my own time, because generally, as a reservist, the military doesn't provide me with funding to do it on their time.

 

[combat_medic]

Ok folks, this one is getting locked.

If you want to wear a uniform off duty, you need permission. Get permission, or don't wear the uniform, simple.