Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

[Kirkhill]

"Hypothetically".

That level of inconstancy, in my opinion, is likely to push an honourable person to struggle with the decision of whether to stay in, and keep trying, or pursue other options.

Hypothetically.

 

[McG]

For those who doubt the government, do you have any confidence in hearing the message from Gen Vance?

Canada's top general rejects notion peacekeepers are being used to political ends
Jonathan Vance says he would never put troops in harms way to win a UN Security Council seat
Lee Berthiaume
CBC news
21 Sep 2016

The country's top soldier is pushing back against suggestions the Liberal government wants to use Canadian troops for political purposes by deploying them on United Nations peacekeeping missions.

The opposition Conservatives accused the Liberals this week of treating the military like "pawns" by promising to support peacekeeping operations in exchange for a UN Security Council seat.

The Liberal government has promised up to 600 troops for future peacekeeping operations, as well as 150 police officers and $450 million for peace support operations.

But chief of the defence staff Gen. Jonathan Vance said Wednesday that Canadian troops will be deployed as peacekeepers for no other reason than to help bring peace and stability to another part of the world.

"I reject the notion that this is done simply for political reasons and putting troops in harm's way into risky areas for anything other than the true merits of the value of the use of military force," he said.

Vance told the Senate defence committee that his staff members are looking at various UN mission options to see where Canada could best contribute. The government still has not decided on a specific mission, he added.

Vance wouldn't say which missions the government is currently considering, but he acknowledged that many — if not all — carry some degree of risk. He said he wouldn't advise Canada participate in a mission with unnecessary or unmanageable risk.

"But a risky mission that has great potential of success may be a mission that you want to invest in," he said. "And the military, we do risk. We're good at that, if we can mitigate it."

Some have worried that Canadian peacekeepers could be put into a no-win situation, or bound by endless UN bureaucracy that might tie their hands or otherwise put them at risk, such as in previous missions in Rwanda and Bosnia.

Vance said UN commanders might give Canadian troops specific tasks, but he would "never" let the UN have the last word on when or how Canadian peacekeepers could act. He said he is the one who writes the rules of engagement for Canadian troops, which would continue with a peacekeeping mission.

"I never relinquish Canadian command of those troops," he said. "We have learned a lot since the days of Bosnia and Rwanda and elsewhere. And one of those is you're never out from under Canadian command."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/peacekeeping-vance-not-political-1.3773216

 

[Halifax Tar]

For those who doubt the government, do you have any confidence in hearing the message from Gen Vance?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/peacekeeping-vance-not-political-1.3773216

I don't think he really has a choice.  If the gov says go here for what ever reason he must follow orders no ?

 

[Lightguns]

I don't think he really has a choice.  If the gov says go here for what ever reason he must follow orders no ?

After having his say in private with the MND and PM if this government is doing things the way Harper and Martin administrations did.  I understand Jean C wasn't much for talking to top soldiers though and this crowd draws more on that side of the Liberal dual personality. 

 

[McG]

I don't think he really has a choice.  If the gov says go here for what ever reason he must follow orders no ?

But he can always resign if he disagrees.  Do you doubt he is speaking honestly when he says the CAF is going somewhere where it can make a positive difference, or when he says he will give the ROE that are required?

 

[Halifax Tar]

But he can always resign if he disagrees.  Do you doubt he is speaking honestly when he says the CAF is going somewhere where it can make a positive difference, or when he says he will give the ROE that are required?

While our current MND and CDS may be different I really don't expect our politicians or generals to "fall on their sword" if they feel something a foot is fishy.  Admiral Landymore's type haven't existed for some time.

I think he is honest when he speaks but I also think we as a nation, the CDS included, are not going into this with our eyes wide open.  This mission, IMHO, will go something like this:

1) Go in with rose colored glass, being sent/lead by the Liberals; 
2) Take some casualties, opposition to the mission rises;
3) The Liberal government falls, the Cons win government;
4) The Liberals, now sitting in opposition, then blame the Cons for the mission and the casualties it incurred; 
5) We will then pull out of the mission and as uniformed pers we will walk away wondering WTF just happened.

Remind you of anything from the past ?

Too cynical perhaps ?

 

[Jarnhamar]

But chief of the defence staff Gen. Jonathan Vance said Wednesday that Canadian troops will be deployed as peacekeepers for no other reason than to help bring peace and stability to another part of the world.

Peacekeeping and bringing peace. We should probably concentrate on bringing peace to region in the first place before we try to keep the peace, no?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Peacekeeping and bringing peace. We should probably concentrate on bringing peace to region in the first place before we try to keep the peace, no?

So we will become importers/exporters, like Art Vanderlay, of Vanderlay industries? At least it will seem exciting if we say that we work there: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vanderlay%20industries

 

[Kirkhill]

While our current MND and CDS may be different I really don't expect our politicians or generals to "fall on their sword" if they feel something a foot is fishy.  Admiral Landymore's type haven't existed for some time.

I think he is honest when he speaks but I also think we as a nation, the CDS included, are not going into this with our eyes wide open.  This mission, IMHO, will go something like this:

1) Go in with rose colored glass, being sent/lead by the Liberals; 
2) Take some casualties, opposition to the mission rises;
3) The Liberal government falls, the Cons win government;
4) The Liberals, now sitting in opposition, then blame the Cons for the mission and the casualties it incurred; 
5) We will then pull out of the mission and as uniformed pers we will walk away wondering WTF just happened.

Remind you of anything from the past ?

Too cynical perhaps ?

I see that our Prime Minister is the most popular politician on the planet, according to his foreign affairs minister.  I believe that the young fellow should take full advantage of his popularity and continue his desire to serve mankind by taking over from Ban Ki Moon (who seems to be getting kind of snarky in any case).

I propose Justin Trudeau for Secretary-General.  Tomorrow.

 

[Lumber]

So we will become importers/exporters, like Art Vanderlay, of Vanderlay industries? At least it will seem exciting if we say that we work there: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vanderlay%20industries

I was thinking this was a more apt comparison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeepers_(Farscape)

 

[Lightguns]

I see that our Prime Minister is the most popular politician on the planet, according to his foreign affairs minister.  I believe that the young fellow should take full advantage of his popularity and continue his desire to serve mankind by taking over from Ban Ki Moon (who seems to be getting kind of snarky in any case).

I propose Justin Trudeau for Secretary-General.  Tomorrow.

His ego is insufficiently large for that job, although he does wear the cool European cut suits and shoes the job seems to demand. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Nobel peace prize inbound, for just being so likeable ( keep getting bothered by recurring images of Dion, a picture of JT and a chicken in a stall in a UN washroom.) [

 

[jollyjacktar]

I'm so glad that Canada is back and we're here to help.  I'll sleep more soundly in my bed tonight and on subsequent nights, knowing this. (I'm sure :nod

 

[daftandbarmy]

Nobel peace prize inbound, for just being so likeable ( keep getting bothered by recurring images of Dion, a picture of JT and a chicken in a stall in a UN washroom.) [

Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize for 'not being George Bush'. Trudeau would qualify for similar reasons, wouldn't he?

 

[ueo]

Hey watch them chicken jokes!

 

[kratz]

Hey watch them chicken jokes!

There was no running with the chicken jokes.  [

I need some peanuts with this  op:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hey watch them chicken jokes!

The New Yorker started it

 

[PuckChaser]

But he can always resign if he disagrees.  Do you doubt he is speaking honestly when he says the CAF is going somewhere where it can make a positive difference, or when he says he will give the ROE that are required?

Leadership 101: Never contradict your chain of command in front of your troops/publicly. Own their mission as your own mission. Gen Vance would be a poor leader if he let fly anything other than government policy, and he's not a poor leader. He'd also absolutely destroy the morale of the CAF members deploying if he disagreed with why we were going, and told them as such.

 

[cavalryman]

Hey watch them chicken jokes!

Only until it crosses the road.  After that it's fair game. >

 

[daftandbarmy]

Leadership 101: Never contradict your chain of command in front of your troops/publicly. Own their mission as your own mission. Gen Vance would be a poor leader if he let fly anything other than government policy, and he's not a poor leader. He'd also absolutely destroy the morale of the CAF members deploying if he disagreed with why we were going, and told them as such.

Then again:

"A good soldier obeys orders without question ... and keeps his buttons bright." I always did both ... until I gradually found out that some orders are criminal nonsense. - Strome Galloway, The General Who Never Was, 1981