Retire from CAF and entering Fed PS [Merged]

[Remius]

Interesting. 

So  buddy of mine who works at a smaller department suddenly had his vacation entitlement given to him.  But a co-worker of his did not get it.  Now my buddy bought back his pensionable reserve time through the PS.  His co-worker is currently getting  a CF pension.  My guess is that his HR folks were much more proactive given teh small number of people this affected and were able to calculate his vacation allocation using his pension stuff.  But his co-worker will have to submit his proof of service since they didn't have a record.

Now another case here at DND is someone went to the cmp link as per to request her record of service but then they told her to go through access to information.

Wow.

 

[George Wallace]

Interesting. 

So  buddy of mine who works at a smaller department suddenly had his vacation entitlement given to him.  But a co-worker of his did not get it.  Now my buddy bought back his pensionable reserve time through the PS.  His co-worker is currently getting  a CF pension.  My guess is that his HR folks were much more proactive given teh small number of people this affected and were able to calculate his vacation allocation using his pension stuff.  But his co-worker will have to submit his proof of service since they didn't have a record.

Now another case here at DND is someone went to the cmp link as per to request her record of service but then they told her to go through access to information.

Wow.

I interpret this as:

Person A bought back his Reserve time towards his PS pension (adding his Reserve time to his PS time towards a PS pension).

Person B was collecting his RegF pension and working for the PS (not transferring his RegF pension into the PS pension - in essense working towards a 'second' pension while collecting one).


Would that not explain your two different scenarios?

 

[Canuck4ever]

Interesting. 

So  buddy of mine who works at a smaller department suddenly had his vacation entitlement given to him.  But a co-worker of his did not get it.  Now my buddy bought back his pensionable reserve time through the PS.  His co-worker is currently getting  a CF pension.  My guess is that his HR folks were much more proactive given teh small number of people this affected and were able to calculate his vacation allocation using his pension stuff.  But his co-worker will have to submit his proof of service since they didn't have a record.

Now another case here at DND is someone went to the cmp link as per to request her record of service but then they told her to go through access to information.

Wow.

Obviously challenges as this is still new and lots of admin and HR staff on leave.  On plus side - remember the pot of gold at the end of the road!

And based on G Wallace comments above - I'm person B.  I believe new leave policy was applicable irregardless if you were collecting CF Pension

On my end, I'm currently enjoying selling the skin of the bear, knowing full well that I'll catch one in Sep or Oct  (loosely translated - I'm currently using lots of leave knowing that my leave will double - just may take time for paperwork to catch up ;-)

 

[dapaterson]

It's rather straightforward, actually:  If Bloggins is buying back pensionable service in the public service based on Reserve time, the public service already has his records in hand and thus can do the work almost immediately.  If Canuck4Ever is just sending in his paperwork, it's going to take longer.

 

[bridges]

I interpret this as:

Person A bought back his Reserve time towards his PS pension (adding his Reserve time to his PS time towards a PS pension).

Person B was collecting his RegF pension and working for the PS (not transferring his RegF pension into the PS pension - in essense working towards a 'second' pension while collecting one).


Would that not explain your two different scenarios?

I thought that's exactly what Crantor said.  Likely the HR folks find it easier/quicker to deal with, in the case of those pers whose mil-to-civ pension data is already in the PS system.

What I find a touch more alarming is Crantor's comment (I'm not shooting the messenger!  ) about people being asked to request their rcd of svc through ATI.  What the hell?!!  Many of us had to go through the ATI process to get our proof of reserve service, for the pension buy-back.  At the time it seemed like just a way for the system to buy time... delay the provision of documents, so they can figure out what to do with them when they do arrive.  The delays through ATIP were long, and in my case it almost caused me to miss the buy-back deadline. 

ATI is supposed to be for when informal queries don't work.  Why, why must we always complicate things unnecessarily?    :brickwall:

 

[Canuck4ever]

If Canuck4Ever is just sending in his paperwork, it's going to take longer.

I gather DaPaterson is saying the skin of the bear may start to smell by the time all this goes through.  Still, better than past year  ;-)

 

[Remius]

I interpret this as:

Person A bought back his Reserve time towards his PS pension (adding his Reserve time to his PS time towards a PS pension).

Person B was collecting his RegF pension and working for the PS (not transferring his RegF pension into the PS pension - in essense working towards a 'second' pension while collecting one).


Would that not explain your two different scenarios?

That's what I was getting at. 

My wow comment was more directed about the lady who had been redirected by the section she was instructed to go to. 

As for me so far (knock on wood) it has been very smooth.

 

[Northern Ranger]

Received a pay-o-gram, with the name and office to send my MPRR to, looks like they are going to keep it simple, I'm with DND northern region.

 

[GAP]

Federal cuts threaten program hiring medically discharged vets
Other than DND, most departments not participating, says Liberal Senator Percy Downe
By David McKie, CBC News  Aug 4, 2012
Article Link

Federal cuts are threatening the future of a program that hires veterans who have been medically discharged from the Canadian Forces, according to a Liberal senator.

"It is a program that's in trouble," says Percy Downe, who was so worried about the fate of the program he wrote Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his ministers asking why they weren't doing more to support the program.

In a letter to Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq CBC News obtained through the Access to Information Act, Downe writes, "I urge you to instruct your deputy minister to follow the spirit and intent of the regulation and appoint qualified medically released veterans ... to employment in your federal government department."

The priority hiring program for Canadian Forces veterans discharged due to physical or psychological injuries was introduced in 2005 as part of the Veterans Charter. RCMP officers were also included in the program, but most participants are vets.

According to a CBC News analysis of statistics from the Public Service Commission, the federal body responsible for administering the program, Health Canada has hired nine people on the priority list, well behind National Defence, the Correctional Service of Canada and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada.

Of the nearly 1,000 people who found jobs through the program, National Defence hired 73 per cent of them. Nine federal employers, including the Privy Council Office, haven't hired anyone.
More on link

 

[PuckChaser]

Is it the federal cuts, or is the Public Service hiring process not following procedures? I don't get how the cuts have anything to do with this, other than there are fewer jobs but these departments don't want to hire veterans anyways.

 

[Occam]

They're calling it a "program", when it's really not.  It's a hiring preference entrenched in the Public Service Employment Act.

It's no different than the change that was made to the PSEA which allows CF members to participate in advertised internal appointment processes (aka "internal competitions").  The legislation allows the CF to participate if the hiring dept decides to include us in the Area of Selection for the competition.  That's fine and dandy - except that almost no organization outside DND chooses to include the CF in their Area of Selection for their positions.  The legislation is toothless and relies upon the goodwill of the hiring department to deliberately include the CF when writing up the Area of Selection.

 

[Rifleman62]

The legislation is toothless and relies upon the goodwill of the hiring department to deliberately include the CF when writing up the Area of Selection.

After being in the CF they probably think you will not meet the standard of a mindless public service union sheep.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

After being in the CF they probably think you will not meet the standard of a mindless public service union sheep.

Like me??

 

[GAP]

Like me??

Well.....you don't play VB in the sand......nor wear a bikini (that I know of)......so.....no... ;D

 

[Rifleman62]

Like me??

I don't know. Do you meet the standard?

 

[mariomike]

After being in the CF they probably think you will not meet the standard of a mindless public service union sheep.

"Sheep" reminds me of the lady who used to call us parasites.

 

[McG]

They're calling it a "program", when it's really not.  It's a hiring preference entrenched in the Public Service Employment Act.

Part of the problem with priority hire is that departments are able to discriminate in ways, and DND is guilty of this too.  When the recent cuts were first starting to be developed, DND directed that there would be no priority hires except of DND public servants.  You are a priority hire from Health Canada?  Sorry, DND will keep this essential position empty before letting you in.

And I wonder if the praise given to DND is still waranted.  Based on the restriction against priority hires of anyone not already a DND public servant, I asked if the department was also prohibiting the priority hire of medically released service members (who would not be considered DND public servants) ... I couldn't reach anybody that was able to answer with any authority, but plenty of staffers who were ready to agree that the email chain did seem to bar medical releases from priority hire in DND for the time.

 

[mariomike]

I was re-reading the original thread,

Topic: "Priority Hiring in the Federal Public Service.":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/98576.0

I do not believe this has been posted yet,

"Guide on Priority Administration":
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/prad-adpr/guide/prt1-eng.htm#priority1.5

I am sure some have already read it.

There were a few items that caught my eye.

1.5 Priority types:

Statutory priorities: "Persons with a statutory priority are appointed ahead of all others"

Regulatory priorities: "Persons with a regulatory priority are appointed after persons with a statutory priority, but in no relative order:
> Canadian Forces (CF) or Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP): Certain members released or discharged for medical reasons":
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2005-334/section-8.html

"Employment equity:

When staffing positions pursuant to organizationally approved employment equity (EE) programs, only the priority persons who are also members of the target or designated EE group(s) used for the process must be considered in priority to all other persons. Priority persons registered in the priority administration system have been coded as to their membership in EE groups if they have self-identified as such. Positions that are not staffed in accordance with an organizationally-approved EE program are subject to priority consideration of all priority persons."

( Presumably, members "released or discharged for medical reasons" would qualify for EE. )

 

[ModlrMike]

( Presumably, members "released or discharged for medical reasons" would qualify for EE. )

They might have to self identify as "disabled". Even when released for medical reasons, many members don't consider themselves disabled.

 

[Remius]

Part of the problem with priority hire is that departments are able to discriminate in ways, and DND is guilty of this too.  When the recent cuts were first starting to be developed, DND directed that there would be no priority hires except of DND public servants.  You are a priority hire from Health Canada?  Sorry, DND will keep this essential position empty before letting you in.

And I wonder if the praise given to DND is still waranted.  Based on the restriction against priority hires of anyone not already a DND public servant, I asked if the department was also prohibiting the priority hire of medically released service members (who would not be considered DND public servants) ... I couldn't reach anybody that was able to answer with any authority, but plenty of staffers who were ready to agree that the email chain did seem to bar medical releases from priority hire in DND for the time.

It's not exactly like that.  Various governmemt departments are all going through the same thing.  For those who have access to the PS employment site you will see most postions ahve a very limited area of selection.  Things that read like "Only employees of Transport Canada occupying a position in the NCR may apply" or even down to various ADMs "Only employess of ADM PA may apply.  Why?  well much to the joy of many on Army.ca we are actually cutting the PS by thousands.  So departments have to cut their numbers meaning no new hires unless they have permission from the very top an/or can't fill it from within.  This also means that they have an FTE ceiling they can't go over.  For example, let's say CMP has 200 civilian full time employees.  They have to cut 50.  No problem, 50 people are retiring.  But some of those positions are "essential".  Well they can move some of the remaining 150 in to those jobs (ie only people at CMP can apply).  So that means CMP's FTE ceiling does not rise above 150.  If they took on former CF members or RCMP, or other hires or even if they hired priority hires like medically released soldiers for these postions, they would be going over their FTE numbers.

So what happens if for some reason the number dips below 150?  Well then you can expand your area of selection but, members of the PS who have been affected by work force adjustment or strategic review, as in they have been declared surplus or are being laid off  are given priority because they are statuary priority hires as opposed to regulartory priority hires.  So given the current climate, with so many(thousands) Public servants affected and identified, regulatory priority hires are going to be limited for what they can get because of all the statutory priority hires. Also keep in mind, disables former CF members are not the only type of regulatory priority, so they are in the same pool if you will as others for the same jobs when it comes to that.

So it isn't "discriminatory".  DND and even the various ADMs at DND are limited by their FTE ceiling.  They can only shuffle people from within without going over.  If their respective FTE ceilings drop below what they are allowed, then they may proceed with staffing action following the appropriate guidelines.  So if a position gets opened PS wide, internally or externally, priority is giving to Stat priorities then reg. prioroties then finally if no one in those groups fits the bill, everyone else.