Reserve Pension- Merged

[dapaterson]

Rifleman62:

As explained on Friday, "later of 20 years or age 65" means that you would have until age 80 to repay.  The question was explicitly asked.

So a bit less bad...

 

[Rifleman62]

Thanks DAP.
Did you get the stuff I sent you? At the briefing, what was the feelings of the audience after?

 

[Remius]

A number of people from my office were there.  Most of us thought it was pretty good.  So far this was the clearest briefing to date.  It's going to mean some lifestyle changes for a few of us.  Buyback amount+pension deduction at 85% of reg force pay.  Either way, I think were getting a good deal.

 

[Haggis]

A number of people from my office were there.  Most of us thought it was pretty good.  So far this was the clearest briefing to date.  It's going to mean some lifestyle changes for a few of us.  Buyback amount+pension deduction at 85% of reg force pay.  Either way, I think were getting a good deal.

Really???  Clearly your definition of "a good deal" differs from mine.  Mortgaging my house to buy back a pension that will pay me less than OAS/CPP doesn't seem like a "good deal".

BOHICA.

 

[geo]

As for me, FWIW, I am working on drafting a grievance that will address the interest that is being assessed - pointing to administrative errors & blunders that I am having to pay for.... and tying it up in a neat little package pointing back to the canforgen which says in no uncertain terms that I am not supposed to be holding the short end of the stick. Will also be working on the issue of the 7% compound VS the 4% simple that elected officials and public servants & troops doing CT are paying for their pension buy back.

From the time you have come to realise you have been screwed, there is a finite time to submit grievance and ask fora redress..... I intend to be one who will add to the bureaucratic burden an the main puzzle palace.

(I think I will have company)

 

[Rifleman62]

Geo,
As of 1 Mar 07, anyone doing a CT from the Reserves to the Reg F, will have to buy back their pension at the new rates, including 7% compound interest. That's why this 'deal" affects Reservists, past , present and future. I know several pers who have had a CT approved, and are awaiting their offer. Their offer will be after 1 Mar 07. I feel this is just sticking it to the Reserves, past, present and future. It is great that you are Redressing this. Like I said before, I will not. I am going for the jugular.

 

[Long in the tooth]

I say again -

CTs (or whatever it was called 20 years ago) have always contributed to the RegF pension.  Again, my benefits almost equal what I have paid in.  If I retire in March with 20 years I will be eligible for about $2100/month after contributing $120,000.  I know you folks are looking for a silver bullet ($2000/month with a one time contribution of $12,000?!?) but that ain't gonna happen.

Even the CPP is sustainable, no more of the pay as you go ponzy scheme.  Switzerland, that paragon of fiscal stability studied our system.

Apologies for the reality check, don't shoot the messanger.

Out

 

[Remius]

Really???  Clearly your definition of "a good deal" differs from mine.  Mortgaging my house to buy back a pension that will pay me less than OAS/CPP doesn't seem like a "good deal".

BOHICA.

Situations vary.  In my case I'm getting a good deal.  In the long run this will be good for the reserves.  However I do understand that with this just beginning, a lot of people going through the transition will get boned.  I know of two or three people that are not happy about it but I think it's going to be impossible to please everyone.  If any good can come from any type of redress then I'm all for it.  

 

[Rifleman62]

Worn Out Grunt
When you CT ed, and bought back your pension, you did not pay 7% compound interest, on top of the wage Index - converting e.g. wages earned 20 years ago to 2007 wages, and piling  on 7% compound interest for 20 years. Thats the point.

 

[dapaterson]

Just for the record: Only the CF will be subject to 7% compound interest as of 01 March 2007; the PSSA and RCMPSA both still read:

Definition of “interest”
(2) In this section, unless otherwise specified, "interest" means simple interest at four per cent per annum from the middle of the fiscal year in which the contributions would have been made, had the contributor been required to make those contributions during the period for which he elects to pay, until the first day of the month in which the election is made.

(see para 7(2) of each act; both are online at http://laws.justice.gc.ca)

And for those interested in comparing 7% compound interest to 4% simple interest, I've attached a little spreadsheet, showing how $1000 can grow at 4% simple or 7% compound interest over a period of 35 years, year by year.  Quite an eye opener.

 

[geo]

I say again -
CTs (or whatever it was called 20 years ago) have always contributed to the RegF pension.  Again, my benefits almost equal what I have paid in.  If I retire in March with 20 years I will be eligible for about $2100/month after contributing $120,000.  I know you folks are looking for a silver bullet ($2000/month with a one time contribution of $12,000?!?) but that ain't gonna happen.

Even the CPP is sustainable, no more of the pay as you go ponzy scheme.  Switzerland, that paragon of fiscal stability studied our system.
Apologies for the reality check, don't shoot the messanger.
Out

WOG,
To claim that we are looking for a golden parachute is false and unrealistic.
To state that we are looking for a fair shake is more to the point.

Anyone who has served the CF in a reg or reserve capacity for 10, 20 or 30 years with no expectation of RRFG or Res Pension, will gladly say thank you for what is being offered BUT, I would say that it is unreasonable for us to say thanks for something that is being rigged... to present something that we are inclined to refuse because it does not make monetary sense to present..... might as well say that serving members are not entitled to it & newbies signing up are welcome to apply....

IMHO

 

[Rifleman62]

And DAP's example does not include factoring in the Wage Index, a double whammy.

 

[Rifleman62]

The CANDFORGEN is out. Is everyone finally happy? The Reserves now have pension access.

 

[schart28]

Can you please post it?

The CANDFORGEN is out. Is everyone finally happy? The Reserves now have pension access.

 

[Haggis]

The CANDFORGEN is out. Is everyone finally happy?

Thrilled... :

The Reserves now have pension access.

I have access to a Maserati, too.  Both are quite beyond my means.

 

[Rifleman62]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22704.45.html

Posted in another forum.

 

[dapaterson]

The Reserve Pension Website is now up and running.  Some forms, a calculatior (which I'll try tonight), and a bit more information.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/rfpp/index.html

 

[charlesm]

I wouldn't bother. No instructions with it. It seems you have to fill in your annual salary and then how many days your worked. Plus Pill.

Dataperson your spreadsheet was easier to use.

Edit for spelling

Note to self use spell check before posting!

 

[geo]

Well... I wasn't expecting things to be working at 100% on day 1
let's give everyone a little bit of time.

 

[dapaterson]

Folks, I've downloaded the DND Calculator, and made a few comparisons.

From what I can see, if you're to be enrolled in the part-time plan my calculations and those of the DND calculator are very close - perhaps 2% variance.

For the full-time plans, the numbers are more out of whack.  My estimates of the cost for payback are much higher.  As they've tried to hide the calculations on their spreadsheet (Note to people: Excel is not a good way to keep things hidden - copy and paste works and lets you un-hide things) I've had to do a bit of detective work.  I think there is an error on the official DND spreadsheet ; I will try to confirm it tomorrow.  If it isn't an error on the DND spreadsheet then I am pleasantly surprised - the savings is significant.  However, I'm pretty sure I know what error they have made.


To fill out the DND spreadsheet, you need your pensionable earnings for each year, along with the number of days you worked.  That information goes on the "Pt I1 Election" tab.  (I'm not sure why there is a separate "PILL" column).  You also have to fill out the tombstone data at the top of the form - your enrolment date, the "last calendar day" of your year of enrolment (for example, I enrolled in October 1989, so the last calendar day was 31 December 1989); and at the bottom, your birth date. The other data would only be adjusted if you were not being enrolled as of March 1st, 2007.

The sheet will indicate the maximum payback, and what benefit it would provide if you paid the maximum.  Enter amounts in the blue box at the bottom to see how varying your payback varies your future benefits.

If you're going to be in part I1 (part-time plan) only, that's about all you need to do.  If you will be in the full-time plan, you should go to the second table, "Rollover Election".  It is supposed to indicate how much additional it will cost you to buy back your service in the full time plan.  However - one big caveat - it will show the amount to pay back as "Zero" unless you have entered an amount on the previous tab for "Your Buy Back".  I won't tell you how long it took me to figure that out.

More to follow as I look at the DND spreadsheet some more...