The Swedish subs have always been for coastal protection with little endurance. With the exception of deployment to the Gulf of St. Lawrence, I don't think a small sub would be of any use to Canada and a frightful waste of resources. A sub capable of lurking out near the Grand Banks for several weeks needs to be a little larger than 2000 tons or the crews will go berserk.
Replacing the Subs
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You really couldn't bolt it on to a Sub in my understanding.I wonder how many Tomahawks, SM6s and PrSMs could be stowed on the slant in a Swedish or Korean hull?
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Not bolt it on. But dedicate a section of the hull for the missiles to be stowed at an angle in a ready to launch mode with venting provision. Or simply compressed air extraction.
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I don't see any advantage (and several downsides) to VLS, in terms of subsurface launching.
Maxman1
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Allegedly they offered a 4,000 ton version of the A26 to Australia, similar to the Type 216, but it doesn't appear to be the version being built.
The Type 212CD is the same length and displacement as the Victorias, and 9 feet wider, but only four torpedo tubes instead of six. Sounds like that should be the minimum starting size.
Correct. It was referred to as the Type 612. Not a lot of detail can be found, but as you reported, it was supposed to be a 4000 ton class SSK.
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On Saab's website they have a graphic breakdown of the Oceanic ER, it appears the Collins class for Australia gives it some lineage, as well as the newer design model and materials from the A26.
The A26 Oceanic Extended Range, on the other hand, is a stretched version of the Blekinge-class with a 3,000 tonnes displacement and capable to carry up to 50 persons.
The Type 612 appears to have been an even larger 4,000 tonne version of the A26OER that was to compete for the Australian sub program.
Retired AF Guy
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Trying to put a Slowpoke reactor on board sounds like a pretty expensive proposition and a risky one at that. A better idea would be to expand the Li-Ion battery capability which in turn would give the gives the subs a longer submerged capability.
Personally I like the idea having a VLS launch capability that can launch land attack cruise missiles** like the Tomahawk would give Canada a pretty good capability
** I doubt Canada would be okay with the idea of having subs with a SLBM launch.
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Honestly, whatever the Dutch buy should be our choice. They are looking at a larger more oceanic sub for their next build. If I were King for a day I would jump on that project and just tell the Dutch, "whatever you pick is good enough for us".
They can even build it in their yards to a certain point (with some post delivery work on RCN secret stuff done here).
They can even build it in their yards to a certain point (with some post delivery work on RCN secret stuff done here).
Prairie canuck
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The KSS-III line is operational now. it is not a paper sub. They are building #4 out of 9 planned. There's time to plan for Canada's requirements and implement them into the design (such as strengthening the mast for ice). It takes 2 yrs to build and 3 further years to commission. In theory they could start building for Canada in 9 to 10 years. At the rate battery technology is advancing who knows what will be available in 10 yrs.
The Slowpoke is a small reactor and arguably the safest reactor. It has a nominal output of 2 and up to 20 kw and be used to charge batteries while submerged an in theory extend the length of time a sub can stay submerged quite considerably longer than the AIP technology can. In 1980 the cost of installing one at Sherbrooke University Hospital was reported at $15 million.
The Slowpoke is a small reactor and arguably the safest reactor. It has a nominal output of 2 and up to 20 kw and be used to charge batteries while submerged an in theory extend the length of time a sub can stay submerged quite considerably longer than the AIP technology can. In 1980 the cost of installing one at Sherbrooke University Hospital was reported at $15 million.
Colin Parkinson
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What Canada could do is build a section of submarine hull (or buy it from a sub being scrapped) Seal off the ends, build a shaft with a lift into the top, install a Slowpoke-2 into the hull section, submerge it at dockside and let it run to produce electrical power and figure out what is the best configurations for cooling, shielding, power generation and safety systems. It could become a marketable idea and having a real tech demonstrator would help sales.
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A Canadian Hybrid Submarine Design: A Case for the Slowpoke-2 Reactor – Canadian Naval Review
David Dunlop, 28 February 2020. Nuclear propulsion of submarines is ideal for long distances and extended under-ice missions. But is there a better, more affordable and collaborative way? Off-the-shelf air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines such as the French Barracuda Block 1A class being...
www.navalreview.ca
GK .Dundas
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This basically what the Americans did with their naval reactors. They built on land in Kansas of all places, I believe.
OldSolduer
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OK what do y'all want RCN subs to do? Local patrol? Arctic under ice ops? Attack subs?
I think first the GoC has to decide on what they want their fleet of subs to do....
You might be waiting a while.
I think first the GoC has to decide on what they want their fleet of subs to do....
You might be waiting a while.
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Just finished reading a bit about the Dutch programme. Its telling that The Netherlands is building 4 new subs to defend a coastline that is only 450km's long and that we have only 4 subs to defend/patrol a coastline that is the world's longest. I checked the total coastline for PEI, its more than double Holland's, New Brunswick's is 4x bigger and BC's over 50x. Everywhere you look, at virtually every metric you look at, we are pitifully underequipped.
World's largest battery maker announces major breakthrough in energy density
"A new era of universal electrification of sea, land and air transportation." CATL announces new battery that doubles energy intensity.
www.google.com
There have been multiple breakthroughs in battery technology announced lately. Doubling and even tripling the energy density of tesla batteries. Some of them are even entering production soon.
With these new technologies it becomes even harder to justify the cost of nuke boats. Unless of course nuke boat costs can be lowered drastically.
As nuclear is coming back in style new technologies will be developed and maybe costs can come down to the point it makes sense.
For now I still believe the quantity of AIP boats we can purchase and staff with our budget still beats the quality advantage of the very few nuke boats we could operate.
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Before anyone gets too excited about 500 Wh/kg, for reference gasoline has an energy density of 13KWh/kg….
Spencer100
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Canada is defended by the most powerful sub force in the world and its free. So there is that.
And will most likely be the government's preferred end state.
Maxman1
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Netherlands has colonial territories and NATO commitments. So their concept of operations is different but going across the atlantic to look after Carib territories is part of their SOP's
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And hydrogen 33kWh/kg so use a 50% efficient fuel cell and your still looking at 16-17kWh/kg net, or 32-33 times more density than Li-ion…
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