Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP)-RMC 2000 - 2018 [Merged]

[Meridian]

Oh.. Im sure they would take you.. but when I was at the CFRC the other day, the recruiter told me they require you to give up your credits... the grades you earned make you look that much better to the board, of course, assuming they are quality.

Also, my friend at RMC said he didn't know of anyone who entered in 2nd year.. everyone new began as a 1st year... part of the military and leadership pillars are built on starting from 1st year and moving on... but I guess he could be wrong?

Again, your offer will be your best indication of what the forces is willing to do for you anyway

 

[Canuck_25]

Oh.. Im sure they would take you.. but when I was at the CFRC the other day, the recruiter told me they require you to give up your credits... the grades you earned make you look that much better to the board, of course, assuming they are quality.

Also, my friend at RMC said he didn't know of anyone who entered in 2nd year.. everyone new began as a 1st year... part of the military and leadership pillars are built on starting from 1st year and moving on... but I guess he could be wrong?

Again, your offer will be your best indication of what the forces is willing to do for you anyway

Well, I expected that. Its not really a disappointment for me, if anything, i agree with it.

 

[DVessey]

I didn't know there were a few other RMC students on here too...

Anyway, I just read the whole thread... while I should probably be studying for exams.. but meh. I'm just a lowly little first year, so physics isn't too bad.

As for all the people wanting to get into RMC after doing a few years at civi university, from the experience I've had, this is highly unlikely. Last summer I was put into the "civvi U" IAP platoon. The majority of people there were civvi U, probably about ten RMC cadets, with three prep-year re-courses being added in by the end.
Anyway, onto the point. The people who were ROTP civi U were mostly nurses/physio or people who already had one or two years in university. One fellow had applied for RMC last year, didn't get in, went to UNB and re-applied. He got an offer for RMC an  when he asked if he could transfer credits, he was told probably not so he decided to reject the offer. Then they offered him ROTP at civi U.
Another fellow in my platoon was supposed to be going into third year (forget which university). halfway through the summer he decided he'd rather take the RMC experience, so he put up a memo and got himself transferred. He came here.. and he's in all he's taking all the same courses I am.

On the flip side, I do know of a few first years with previous university experience who did get some transfer credits and are consequently taking second year courses.

Anyway, hope that answers some questions!

 

[Big Foot]

glad to see i'm not the only one who hates studying... anyways, back to math...

 

[s23256]

Heres a tip for any prospective RMC applicants or 1st 2nd 3rd year mechs.  Avoid MEE 431 unless you enjoy a vigorous reaming of the ***hole with a rusty length of rebar.  Suffice to say 2am the night before is not the ideal time to start studying for this exam.

 

[beyondsblue]

What's MEE 431?

 

[s23256]

Mechanical Engineering (English) 431  Stress Analysis
its a 4th year mechanical engineering course here at RMC

 

[Big Foot]

Ah, you Mechs all work too hard, arts is where its at

 

[s23256]

you mechs work too hard

Yup thats because engineering is an externally accredited degree but I could offer an arts degree out of my room.  I could go on for hours.

 

[Big Foot]

Lol, lets not go there. I want to be a teacher after I'm done, so my arts degree will do just fine.

 

[SHARP WO]

You could also join the reserves and finish a degree at a university as an NCM, and later in your career go back to RMC for post graduate work.

SHARP WO

 

[pilot_hopeful]

Hey, I have been looking into RMC for a while as I want to be a Pilot.
I already have a college diploma, and I have decided to go to RMC if possible. It mkes sense to me personally given my goals. I also just don't have the money to pay for university.
I do have to go back and bring up a couple of marks, which i don't think should be a challenge a course or 2 at a time.

any input would be appreciated

 

[Michael OLeary]

Talk to your local Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre (CFRC) to get the best information of how having your current degree will affect your eiligibility for RMC.

 

[Meridian]

Actually I think it is a diploma.. depends what he meant by "college".

But talk to the recruiters anyway

 

[FredDaHead]

You could also join the reserves and finish a degree at a university as an NCM, and later in your career go back to RMC for post graduate work.

SHARP WO

About post graduate stuff... how does that work? You put in 5 years (or whatever) in the army and then you can go back to the RMC? Or is it some sort of lottery where if you're really really lucky you'll get to go back to school while in the army, and otherwise you'll be stuck having to leave the army to get a post-graduate degree?

I'm seriously thinking of going to a civilian university (mostly because I'm pretty sure I'll need eye surgery to get into the army) but getting a post-graduate degree at some point is definately a goal, so being able to do that while in the army sounds like a good idea. When I join up I will be doing it as an officer, so I don't know if that changes anything from going to RMC for post-grad work as an NCM or not.

 

[Jimmy Bond]

Quite honestly, I think one receives a better education and life experience at a civilian university. I think RMC is an anachronism, and not relevant in this day and age.

First of all, it is a huge waste of money. It costs close to $300,000.00 to educate an RMC student, and that does not include classification training! Conversely, ROTP Civilian university costs a mere $80,000.00. We would be far better off to reinstate the old COTC, or even resurrect the RESO program. That was an excellent way to train young officers!

It is not the bulwark of morals and the officer code of conduct. Even West Point has had it's share of "moral" scandals with cheating and inappropriate behaviour.

When you are at a large university particularly, you are often faced with true diversity, rather than people who all think alike. Universities like UBC, U of A and U of T have in excess of 30,000 students; many are studying from abroad. Moreover, you meet and interact with people who have very different perspectives and points of view than you have. When you are surrounded by those who think and act like you do, you lose contact with what makes Canada the great country that it is.

Ask some troops who they'd prefer to have as a platoon or troop leader - a ring knocker with his head rectally situated, or someone who's a little more down to earth?

Ring knocking is not the fast track to the higher echelons, either. Both LGen Hillier and MGen Leslie went to civilian universities. In fact, Leslie was a RESO graduate! Mind you, the name helped somewhat.

Our civilian universities are well respected in the business world, the scientific community, and in the general public. They are at the frontier of new research. They draw academic staff and graduates from around the world because they are institutions of quality. After all, they are producing a "product" for a wide and diverse market. RMC really only has one customer - DND. There is nothing offered at RMC as far as academic disiplines that cannot be found in a civilian university, and often at a much higher calibre. One look at their engineering department will confirm this.

I would counsel anyone thinking of RMC to really, really take a good look at some of Canada's fine civilian universities.

 

[Michael OLeary]

In order to help interested readers to form their opinions from balanced viewpoints, perhaps you could expand on your post and clarify a few issues.

Quite honestly, I think one receives a better education and life experience at a civilian university. I think RMC is an anachronism, and not relevant in this day and age.

Please let us know what you personal experience is with each institution to help us understand your point of view and its validity.

First of all, it is a huge waste of money. It costs close to $300,000.00 to educate an RMC student, and that does not include classification training! Conversely, ROTP Civilian university costs a mere $80,000.00. We would be far better off to reinstate the old COTC, or even resurrect the RESO program. That was an excellent way to train young officers!

Sources? What does the $300K and the $80K actually pay for in each case? Are you comparing the total infrastructure costs of RMC to tuition for Civ U?

It is not the bulwark of morals and the officer code of conduct. Even West Point has had it's share of "moral" scandals with cheating and inappropriate behaviour.

Your point? Are civilian universities producers of morally pure graduates? How is this a significant advantage/disadvantage of one over the other?

When you are at a large university particularly, you are often faced with true diversity, rather than people who all think alike. Universities like UBC, U of A and U of T have in excess of 30,000 students; many are studying from abroad. Moreover, you meet and interact with people who have very different perspectives and points of view than you have. When you are surrounded by those who think and act like you do, you lose contact with what makes Canada the great country that it is.

Unless you bury yourself at the Civ U and fail to interact wiath all that diversification. You're generalizing that simply being there ensures that each individual achieves every perceived benefit.

Ask some troops who they'd prefer to have as a platoon or troop leader - a ring knocker with his head rectally situated, or someone who's a little more down to earth?

A gross generalization, on both counts.

Ring knocking is not the fast track to the higher echelons, either. Both LGen Hillier and MGen Leslie went to civilian universities. In fact, Leslie was a RESO graduate! Mind you, the name helped somewhat.

Your point?

Our civilian universities are well respected in the business world, the scientific community, and in the general public. They are at the frontier of new research. They draw academic staff and graduates from around the world because they are institutions of quality. After all, they are producing a "product" for a wide and diverse market. RMC really only has one customer - DND. There is nothing offered at RMC as far as academic disiplines that cannot be found in a civilian university, and often at a much higher calibre. One look at their engineering department will confirm this.

I would counsel anyone thinking of RMC to really, really take a good look at some of Canada's fine civilian universities.

And what, may I ask, are your credentials to make such a strong statement in support of (potentially) any civilian university over RMC as a post-seocondary establishment for someone planning military service?

 

[Michael OLeary]

About post graduate stuff... how does that work? You put in 5 years (or whatever) in the army and then you can go back to the RMC? Or is it some sort of lottery where if you're really really lucky you'll get to go back to school while in the army, and otherwise you'll be stuck having to leave the army to get a post-graduate degree?

I'm seriously thinking of going to a civilian university (mostly because I'm pretty sure I'll need eye surgery to get into the army) but getting a post-graduate degree at some point is definately a goal, so being able to do that while in the army sounds like a good idea. When I join up I will be doing it as an officer, so I don't know if that changes anything from going to RMC for post-grad work as an NCM or not.

ARMY OFFICERS DEGREE PROGRAMME (AODP)/UNSPONSORED POST GRADUATE PROGRAMME - CALL LETTER FOR APPLICATIONS - 2002/2003 ACADEMIC YEAR

Msg - Sep 01 5000-7-3 (DLP)

Ref: DAOD 5049-1

1. General. It is anticipated that AODP will continue in the Academic year 02/03. Funds permitting, some Senior Officers will also have the opportunity to attend subsidized post graduate studies. As such, applications for both programmes are solicited for the 02/03 Academic year.

2. As in the past, the intent is to have nominees attend their local university wherever possible. Funding of cost moves for the purpose of these programmes is the exception rather than the rule, and is at the discretion of D Mil C.

3. Army programmes are complementary to IBDB and DGMC unsponsored post graduate. Application for army programmes in no way disqualifies or otherwise compromises an individual's eligibility for DGMC programmes.

4. Eligibility.
A. To be eligible for the unsponsored post graduate programme, an officer must:
(1) be land environment, regular force,
(2) of at least LCol rank, and
(3) hold an undergraduate degree.
B. To be eligible for the AODP, an officer must:
(1) be land environment, Regular Force,
(2) have at least five years commissioned service,
(3) hold at least captain rank, and
(3) have the equivalent of one academic year of university credit.

5. Application. A complete application for either program consists of:
A. Unofficial transcripts of all post secondary credits (official transcripts will be required during academic assessment phase),
B. Current PRR,
C. Completed obligatory service statement of understanding form as per DAOD 5049-1A, and
D. CO's recommendation. If not in CO's letter, applicant should write memo indicating his intent, i.e. university to attend and description of degree desired.

6. Selection process. Preparations for the 02/03 academic will proceed as follows:

A. Sep - message inviting applications,
B. Nov - complete applications for either program due to D Mil C Info DLP 3_4 NLT 30 Nov,
C. Dec - DLP conducts AODP selection BD and A/CLS conducts PG selection BD,
D. Jan/Feb - universities evaluation of AODP candidates. Each candidate must be able to achieve a Bachelor Degree in a consecutive 12 months period, between Sep 02 and Aug 03. Some credit is generally awarded for past military training and education,
E. Jan/Feb - PG students secure acceptance from selected university if not already in hand,
F. Mar/Apr - D Mil C notification of successful candidates,
G. May to Aug - posting of candidates,
H. Sep - classes begin.

7. Note that being selected as acceptable by the military board and by the respective university does not necessarily imply participation in either of the programmes. Participation is still subject to :

A. Availability of funds,
B. Requirement of the service, and
C. Career considerations.


OPI: NDHQ/CLS DLP

 

[DVessey]

Just to add a little bit to Mr. OLeary's response....

Quite honestly, I think one receives a better education and life experience at a civilian university. I think RMC is an anachronism, and not relevant in this day and age.

First of all, it is a huge waste of money. It costs close to $300,000.00 to educate an RMC student, and that does not include classification training! Conversely, ROTP Civilian university costs a mere $80,000.00. We would be far better off to reinstate the old COTC, or even resurrect the RESO program. That was an excellent way to train young officers!

It is not the bulwark of morals and the officer code of conduct. Even West Point has had it's share of "moral" scandals with cheating and inappropriate behaviour.

When you are at a large university particularly, you are often faced with true diversity, rather than people who all think alike. Universities like UBC, U of A and U of T have in excess of 30,000 students; many are studying from abroad. Moreover, you meet and interact with people who have very different perspectives and points of view than you have. When you are surrounded by those who think and act like you do, you lose contact with what makes Canada the great country that it is.

Ask some troops who they'd prefer to have as a platoon or troop leader - a ring knocker with his head rectally situated, or someone who's a little more down to earth?

BGen Romeo Dallaire, Col Chris Hadfield, Marc Garneau.... yeah, they all seem like their head is "rectally situated".
This is a generalization that just doesn't work. RMC produces it's share of great officers, but as with any institution there are a few bad apples. There is no magic formula to make a great leader, RMC doesn't have it, neither do civilian universities.

Ring knocking is not the fast track to the higher echelons, either. Both LGen Hillier and MGen Leslie went to civilian universities. In fact, Leslie was a RESO graduate! Mind you, the name helped somewhat.

Our civilian universities are well respected in the business world, the scientific community, and in the general public. They are at the frontier of new research. They draw academic staff and graduates from around the world because they are institutions of quality. After all, they are producing a "product" for a wide and diverse market. RMC really only has one customer - DND. There is nothing offered at RMC as far as academic disiplines that cannot be found in a civilian university, and often at a much higher calibre. One look at their engineering department will confirm this.

I don't believe I'm too far off in saying that RMC is also well respected in the business, scientific world and general public. Research does go on here, as does post-grad work. There's even a nuclear reactor here.

I would counsel anyone thinking of RMC to really, really take a good look at some of Canada's fine civilian universities.

Having said all that, I will admit that there are benefits to any approach to becoming an officer, whether it's ROTP/RETP at RMC or CiviU, DEO, or CFR (I think those are all the entry programs, someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think you can say that any approach is "better" or "worse". In the end it boils down to what kind of leader each individual is.

 

[DVessey]

Oh yeah... and for those of you interested, Rick Mercer came to RMC last week and there's going to be  bit on monday report tomorrow.
http://www.cbc.ca/mondayreport/