Recruiting Posters, Slogans and Commercials [Merged]

[Jarnhamar]

I agree, and I also believe we should cut contracts with companies who don't allow reservists go away on Exs, crses, taskings and ops.

As much as I would enjoy this I disagree with it.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think that rule encompasses american reservists who are attending week-end or summer training does it?  I was under the assumption that it comes into effect when said reserve *regiment* gets activated and deploys.

In Canada reserves do not deploy as a regiment and reservists surely aren't forced to go overseas or attend summer training.

IF a Canadian reserve regiment was called up to a sort of active duty (god can you imagine the backlash, administrative headaches and crying?) I would understand the need to protect a civilians jobs but as it is, i don't really see a requirement for it.

It would be nice to be able to attend summer training or take a year off work and be guarenteed a job when you came back but were not set up like the states.
Not to mention i can see people totally taking advantage of that rule.

 

[enfield]

I agree, and I also believe we should cut contracts with companies who don't allow reservists go away on Exs, crses, taskings and ops.

Ironically enough, from what I've seen Federal and Provincial givernments, police forces, etc., are as bad as any other employers. Sometimes worse (always exceptions of course).

I'm curious about the role of the T-board in influencing CF recruiting. How does it do so? Do they have veto power? Who's interest are they supposedly representing?

 

[ZipperHead]

I agree with TCBF (mainky because I respect my elders  ;D) about cadets being one of the most effective recruiting tools that the CF has. My wife and I both met through cadets (ahhhhh!!!!! :-[), and we both liked what we did with cadets, and joined.

The problem with cadets nowadays (and I doubt it has changed since '99, when I worked as a "Training Advisor" at the Whitehorse cadet camp) is that it has become Boy/Girl Scouts in OD. The PC police have infiltrated what was a pretty kick-ass organization, and neutered it. They can't even call the combat clothing "combats". The cbt shirt is a "tunic", cbt pants are "trousers", and the cbt jacket is a "4 seasons jacket". No mention of anything combat related (ammo, wpns, enemy, etc) in their version of Battle Procedure (knocks out about 5 steps.... ruined me for about 3 years after, as I had to "unlearn" the cadet version to get back into the real version). There was a British cadet on exchange who was fairly disgusted with the sissy-fication of the whole thing, compared to what they do in the UK, and I didn't disagree with him. My understanding is that some mommy's and daddy's didn't like the training that their kids were receiving, and complained that the cadet system was trying to create killers, a la the Hitler Youth. I can say with little exageration that I learned far more about weapons handling, fieldcraft, map & compass, drill and even leadership in cadets than I have in the Regular force. It definitely prepared me for basic training, and gave me a huge advantage over the guys who never heard of a C1 before walking into a recruiting center (I fired the FN C1, C2 and M16A2 as a cadet..... I think that the largest bore rifle an "average" cadet fires now is the Lee Enfield with .22 cal  insert). Don't get me wrong, I still think that cadets still learn a lot of useful skills there (like picking fights on the internet with guys that weigh twice as much as them  :threat: when somebody makes fun of them  ;D), but a lot of the things that were basically "entry level" skills for life in the army aren't there any more. For the time I spent in cadets (5 years, 4 summer camps) I got 6 months toward my first incentive, which pissed off the guys coming in directly from civvy street.....

I'm in agreement with all of the others here that the recruiting campaign is fairly weak, and does little to bring in people hungry for adventure or action. It seems to appeal to the people that were presidents of the chess club at school, not the miscreants hanging out behind the metal shop, smoking and joking. When I went through basic, they sat us around in a circle, a la "Stripes" and asked why we joined. We had the usual (cadets, my dad served, etc). We had one guy who was given the choice between jail and the army. He ended up in E Bty (Para) in Pet. It seems we're attracting too many twinkies, fed a steady diet of Counter-Strike on the computer or X-Box (I call the new soldiers coming in "Generation X-Box"), they think they are tough because they listen to gangsta rap and speak in ebonics, and too many obviously had the option of NOT partaking in Phys Ed. It was embarassing to have unit PT in Edmonton, and when we broke it into over-30 year old vs under-30's (gasp!!!! age-ism.... haven't we learned anything?!?!?!), the over 30's won 95% of the games, be it soccer, football, etc. I'm not sure if that was a case of "Old age and treachery beats youth and skill every time..." or just that the majority of young guys can't catch a football unless it involves pushing a green button on a controller... And I'm not one of those guys in the army on a "sports scholarship". I should be thankful that these new young guys make me look somewhat like a jock  ^-^

Why they don't use footage of ops in Afghanistan or naval boarding parties, or the like. I know that they need to target certain trades that are hurting, but like I've said many times before, there is no point in using the false advertising approach (every unit is 33% female, 33% black/asian/aboriginal, and 33% white male), because once people are in the door, and they realize it's not what they thought, 3 years later they're gone. Then people scratch their head and wonder why the attrition rate is off the scale.

I haven't been in a recruiting center in 17 years, but I shudder to think what one looks like now. Their was a guy in our unit in Edmonton that ended up with a job in recruiting in Edmonton, and, to be polite, he wasn't exactly someone I'd put on a recruiting poster (and no, he wasn't a crewman!!!!). It disturbs me to think that people walk in (the average civvie), see him, and say "I can do that!!!", and I don't mean that in a good way. BTW, the guy in question is a good guy, but hardly the person that I would place in the job (language profile was the key for him).

The recruiting ad that I've seen that I like the most is the Royal Marine one, with the guy struggling in the underwater obstacle, as it emphasises the uniqueness of the unit, that 99.99% need not apply. Whereas ours seems to be "Come one, come all, and don't forget to bring Grandma!!!".

With the new CDS on board, with the "soldier first" mentality that is coming back, I hope things will change, and we'll start going for the adventurous types, who want a mental and physical challenge, because I think a lot of those people have been scared away by the huggy-kissy ads, in particular the gung-ho X-Games type of women that, whether or not people want them there, would be better suited in the combat arms than some of the one's that get sweet talked (ie. lied to by a recruiter) into the CA, that probably wouldn't have made into yesteryears Air Force, let alone shouldn't be in todays army.

With all the computer skills that people in this forum have, someone should put together an "unofficial" recruiting ad that could make it's rounds and get the right audience excited about the army. I can see a few parody ads floating through my head right now, and those could be effective, but could also be detrimental. Things like "The Blair Witch Project" got big because of the internet, so an edgy, almost counter-culture (well counter to the huggy kissy bland ads, anyway) type of thing that defies people, saying "you're not good enough for the army, and if you think you are, you're gonna have to prove it!".

Anyway, lots of good ideas floating around. Hopefully somebody in Ottawa, in the Puzzle Palace, is reading this and might spring into action. Who am I kidding?!?!  :

Al

 

[bossi]

Along the lines of "perception is reality" ... I guess it's the old story:  "You get what you pay for, and ... you recruit what you advertise for"
(i.e. if you tell potential recruits it's a job, they think it's a job - if you tell them it's like nothing they've ever experienced ... you get the picture)

1.  "It's not a job, it's an adventure." (USN)

2.  "Nobody wants to fight, but somebody needs to know how." ... and ... "YOU are our best recruiter." (USMC)

3.  "We do more before breakfast than most people do all day." (US Army, loosely paraphrased)

4.  "Aim High.  Air Force." (USAF)

5. a. "The Canadian Forces offer rewarding full-time careers in the Navy, Army and Air Force." (CF www.dnd.ca)

5. b. "The Reserve Force offers exciting part-time employment opportunities in the Naval, Army, Air and Communication Reserves." (CF www.dnd.ca)

5. c. "The Department of National Defence offers rewarding and challenging careers across Canada and abroad." (CF www.dnd.ca)

Anyway ... just in case anybody missed this article ...

Military attracts violent louts - study

By CP

OTTAWA -- Young Canadians interested in joining the military tend to lack life goals, feel alienated and accept violence to achieve ends, says an internal army study obtained by The Canadian Press. Some findings in the 80-page report suggest army recruiters should carefully screen the 5,000 additional soldiers they plan to hire over the next five years.

People interested in a career with the Canadian Forces tend to be "lacking in life goals and feel alienated from society and its values," says the document, co-authored by three senior officers.

"They are attracted to violence more than the average member of Canadian society and accept violence as a legitimate means of getting what they want."

Generally, those interested in joining the Forces also tend to be "somewhat timid in the face of change and preferred traditional categories of identity by race, gender, and nationality," says the survey. "As a result, they may resist affirmative action initiatives."

The observations are contained in a draft copy of the study, Canada's Soldiers: Military Ethos and Canadian Values in the 21st Century Army. The attitudes of people interested in joining the military were extracted from pollster CROP Inc.'s annual survey of Canadians. The research was also based on 60 questions to 1,297 regular soldiers and 440 reservists.

There are about 19,500 active soldiers and 15,000 army reservists in Canada. The Canadian Forces survey's 26% response rate - about 7,300 were distributed - was considered low but acceptable. The army, expected to take on a greater role in international peacemaking and disaster relief, is likely to get the bulk of the new recruits under new government policy.

While the report suggests attitudes "mellow" with age, it paints a picture of potential recruits who are spoiled, petulant and who "defer to external codes and rules" but look after their own self-interest:

- Those exploring a military career are not so much interested in serving as in "being someone and belonging to something."

- They tend to pursue happiness before duty, give personal life priority over work, and in ethical dilemmas tend to favour personal interests.

- They want to own status symbols and look good, and need to "break out of their isolation and share the collective emotions of a group."

Col. Mike Capstick, a co-author of the report, says not all those who expressed an interest in the military would have signed on, nor would all who signed on have been accepted, survived training or unit integration. "We know that some of them are released because they're just not suitable for military service," said Capstick.

Some characteristics of potential recruits are similar to those of serving soldiers.

"Survey results suggest that soldiers tend to be traditionalists in regard to gender and minorities," it says.

 

[BDTyre]

Most universities and colleges that I'm aware of in BC have anti-military policies, at least in student-run activities - university papers will not carry military ads, the student union will not allow military activities or support, etc. A little disturbing. I don't believe these policies have the general support of the students, but they're indicative of the types of people in student government.

My university's student-run newspaper had a cover feature of a recce skills competition about two years ago.  The two guys who covered it had a lot of fun and in the end were very sympathetic to the CF.  They were even a little disappointed they couldn't be decked out in combats.

 

[ab136]

Personally I love the Canadian ads,

"The Canadian Forces offer rewarding full-time careers in the Navy, Army and Air Force."
"The Reserve Force offers exciting part-time employment opportunities in the Naval, Army, Air and Communication Reserves."
"The Department of National Defence offers rewarding and challenging careers across Canada and abroad."
No interpretation needed, you get it or you don't want to get it.

I also love the American army one,
"We do more before breakfast than most people do all day."
I wish we could adopt that one ;D

 

[ab136]

I like that saying. Makes me want to snap to attention and stick out my chest

 

[NMPeters]

Having just come from a recruiting advertising conference the last two days, I can answer Enfield's question. The Treasury Board plays a HUGE role in CF advertising. In fact, it plays a huge role in advertising for any government department. I'm not going to get into it here because it's mind boggling, but the process for placing an ad is absolutely horrendous. But that's not all of it folks. Privvy Council plays a big role in the advertising too. In fact, the ads must get approval from Privvy Council before they are released. So, it's not DND that is producing these bland ads, it's the Government who is dictating what the ads can and cannot depict. They will even go so far as to say what the "flavour of the month is" with respect to targeting the different minority groups. This conference was a real eye opener to me. So when a department is stuck with what it can and cannot say in its ads, and what it can and cannot show in its ads, then there's not much choice but to fall back on the "pay" thing. We are looked upon as "peacekeepers" by the country and that's how the government wants to sell us. It's not us wanting to sell it that way.

 

[pbi]

The President of Treasury Board is Mr Reg Alcock, our Liberal MP for the part of Winnipeg I live in. Before being appointed to his current office, he was well known here as a "military-friendly" Liberal, who was seen at unit and base mess functions, and was regarded as an ally in our struggle to get Winnipeg's two aging armouries upgraded or replaced.Our HQ gave him a detailed briefing on the concept. I would be surprised to hear that he was now running the board with an anti-military slant, particularly in view of this Govt's apparent emphasis on defence spending.

Did you actually hear him, or others from TB, state that keen, aggressive, soldiering-oriented ads would not be acceptable? Did anyone show them examples of USMC or US Army ads? I can guarantee you that those two services have equally strong direction about "equal opportunity" recruiting advertisements: I have seen USMC ads with women and minorities, and the US Army is even moer oriented along those lines. Are we actually proposing good ads that are getting shot down? Or are we not even bothering, on the assumption that the TB or PC or somebody will trash them?

Cheers.

 

[a_majoor]

I was in Ottawa last week on training, and hooked up with some airforce types to see the town. We went into that big shopping centre beside "Disneyland" to take in a movie, and the theater played "The Ad".

The other patrons were a bit upset about the three of us roaring with laughter in the middle ailse, but as one guy gasped "What force is that?". I mean, showing LAVs screaming cross country, artillery blazing away, CF-18s, ships....They must have culled file films from more than a decades worth of exercises, although oddly, no OPs.

Imagine what the average civvie would have seen, a large, active, well supported force. Now he/she goes into CFRC, passes through St. Jean where fearsom section commanders are not allowed to look at the top of the lockers and there are virtually no penalties for failure; spends some time in the Borden Holding Battalion waiting for courses, does the Battleschool (big institutional shock for most recruits), then finally gets to the Battalion. The vehicle hangers are empty due to whole fleet management, training consists of morning PT and "death by powerpoint" (I exaggerate, but only a bit), and even going to the range is a once a year occasion......Do you really think Pte Bloggins has an incentive to stay, or tell their friends to "come on out"?

I know there is another thread about how recruiting ads are "theamed", but this is a really counterproductive waste of money. Show the reality, not a fairy tale.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

pbi,

Having worked in our wonderful Federal Public Service ever since I hung up my RegF beret, I've come to learn that the problem in this kind of situation is not at the political level but at the bureaucracy level.  The federal bureaucracy is very powerful and pretty much determines what will be presented to the politicians and how it will be presented.  If said politician does not cut through the crap and give clear marching orders, it won't happen.  That's the procedural blockage.   The other factor that comes into play is the bureaucracy's mindset, especially at Treasury Board.  Most public servants view the military as civil servants who wear snazzy uniforms - that's when they think of the military at all.  There is absolutely no real grasp of the fact that the CF exists to do nasty things like shoot people, that - plus the damned peacekeeper image we fostered a few years back will have the bureaucrats say no to the kind of advertising we should be playing.  In this country, one should not underestimate the power of the gnomes in the business suits.  I had to deal with enough TB types when I was at the puzzle palace.  The only way to get around them is to have a conduit straight into the minister's office.  A lot of the problems the taxpaying public mistakenly blames on the politicos is actually the fault of the bureaucracy.  There have been some good essays written about how a strong civil service can become a threat to a liberal democracy.  If I can find them, I'll post them.

 

[Infanteer]

Having just come from a recruiting advertising conference the last two days, I can answer Enfield's question. The Treasury Board plays a HUGE role in CF advertising. In fact, it plays a huge role in advertising for any government department. I'm not going to get into it here because it's mind boggling, but the process for placing an ad is absolutely horrendous. But that's not all of it folks. Privvy Council plays a big role in the advertising too. In fact, the ads must get approval from Privvy Council before they are released. So, it's not DND that is producing these bland ads, it's the Government who is dictating what the ads can and cannot depict. They will even go so far as to say what the "flavour of the month is" with respect to targeting the different minority groups. This conference was a real eye opener to me. So when a department is stuck with what it can and cannot say in its ads, and what it can and cannot show in its ads, then there's not much choice but to fall back on the "pay" thing. We are looked upon as "peacekeepers" by the country and that's how the government wants to sell us. It's not us wanting to sell it that way.

Thanks for the skinny, Ms Peters.

Now, does anyone else feel that "In fact, the ads must get approval from Privvy Council before they are released. So, it's not DND that is producing these bland ads, it's the Government who is dictating what the ads can and cannot depict. They will even go so far as to say what the "flavour of the month is" with respect to targeting the different minority groups." represents an unhealthy malaise in regards to civil-military relations.  As I recall, recruiting and training professional soldiers (and by extention, how we recruit them) is a duty that a professional military, because of its expertise, is supposed to carry out.  When you have bureaucrats or politicians interfering in specifics, essentially "becoming their own Chief of Staff", you get bad juju.

 

[civvy3840]

ab136 what saying??

 

[ab136]

Strong, proud.  Today's Canadian forces. (the post before mine)

 

[civvy3840]

Ya I'm not even in yet and whenever I hear something good about the army it fills me with pride, and if it's something bad I will be quick to argue.

 

[PJ D-Dog]

Correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think that rule encompasses american reservists who are attending week-end or summer training does it?  I was under the assumption that it comes into effect when said reserve *regiment* gets activated and deploys.

Actually, a reservist will be protected under the employment legislation for mobilization and annual training.  Once he is informed that he is being mobilized or that annual training has been scheduled, he needs to advise his employer so that arrangements can be made.  They usually get a warning order well in advance.  His employer has to let him attend and can't fire him.  There's probably more to it than that but that is the essence of it.

PJ D-Dog

 

[The_Falcon]

I remember the ads that they are showing now, when they first aired about 4-5 years ago.  They were terrible then, and terrible now.  There were another set of ads that played in theaters in the late 90's (97-98) that I though were great.  They started with showing the treads of tank chewing up the ground, the rumble of the engine reverberated through the theater.  It showed a couple of cool army stuff (including if I am not mistaken, paratroopers jumping from a herc).  It end with a pair of muddy boots and the question "Can you will these boots?"  then cut to the slogan and logo at the time "YOUR PRIDE, YOUR FUTURE, YOUR MOVE" CANADIAN ARMED FORCES.  I though it was pretty effective.  Maybe we can bring it back and update it a bit.  The latest USN add is quite amazing, even though it shows mostly spec ops kinda stuff, it has a great hard rock soundtrack (Godsmack I think) and the line "If someone wrote a book about your life, would anyone want to read it?"  Thats the kind of stuff that interests people and grabs thier attention and say whoa, maybe I should join.

 

[pbi]

The only way to get around them is to have a conduit straight into the minister's office.

Point taken.

Cheers.

 

[winchable]

Would there be any loopholes, or would it possible without loopholes, for a non-government ogranisation made up of like minded (retired servicemen) people to fund and produce commercials for recruiting?

It would be worth it if they managed to produce one, solid recruiting commercial and see if the government would follow suit or if the public would force the government to follow suit for some reason.

 

[NMPeters]

Che,

So long as those people are not Honouraries, since the Honouraries have a uniform and are appointed by the MND and, in effect, represent the units of which they are a part I don't see why not. Now that means you're going to have to find these people with a crap-load of money to blow away because advertising is hugely expensive, not to mention the development of the ads.