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Reconstitution

Okay then, I guess none of the machinists, manufacturers or others working directly for DND, the shipyards, valve manufacturers and other heavy industries involved in this know what they are doing, so you should put in a bid.
My response was in reference to others stating that they could not find direct replacements for parts and may have to modify the pipe size to make it fit possibly causing issues with surrounding equipment, cabling.
I do not think that would be necessary because we have lots of shops around that can make valves to specs.

Funny, one post about a ship needing to get a local guy in the US to make a part for them to sail.
 
My response was in reference to others stating that they could not find direct replacements for parts and may have to modify the pipe size to make it fit possibly causing issues with surrounding equipment, cabling.
I do not think that would be necessary because we have lots of shops around that can make valves to specs.

Funny, one post about a ship needing to get a local guy in the US to make a part for them to sail.
...while in a US port. Guess what happens when foreign ships visit our ports?

And yes, interference items like cabling is actually most of the work for repairs.

Making big valves to specs and having them properly tested and proven takes a lot of time. These weight 300-500 lbs each and are cast then machined. That's not a weekend jobber kind of thing, and all the casting places are now offshored. You don't machine valves this big.

There is a reason they are 100k+ each, and just in scrap value they are worth 10 grand..
 
...while in a US port. Guess what happens when foreign ships visit our ports?

And yes, interference items like cabling is actually most of the work for repairs.

Making big valves to specs and having them properly tested and proven takes a lot of time. These weight 300-500 lbs each and are cast then machined. That's not a weekend jobber kind of thing, and all the casting places are now offshored. You don't machine valves this big.

There is a reason they are 100k+ each, and just in scrap value they are worth 10 grand..
Never said it was cheap or a weekender jobber kind of thing.
It can be done here in Canada. Old ship parts can be manufactured here. But we choose to not to.
 
Never said it was cheap or a weekender jobber kind of thing.
It can be done here in Canada. Old ship parts can be manufactured here. But we choose to not to.
So your point is that, if a ship breaks a valve in Japan or Australia, we should wait for the part to be made in Alberta, then flown to the ship, rather than have a local shop machine shop do it?
 
When the Naval Reserve had to re-learn minesweeping in the mid-90's to prepare for the MCDV, they had to refer to the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship .... .... ....(1952). The last one with the evolution in it.;)

Some things don't change in the military. It works and is still the solution today. I suspect how you attack a machine gun nest or put up a Bailey bridge hasn't evolved much since WWII.
They also sent personnel overseas on exchange to the UK and had MCM experts from the UK who became members of the Naval reserves to show us the ropes.
 
I know, Chief - I was on HMS Dovey with the Glasgow unit for two weeks in 93.
You probably should of mentioned that, my point is that other than referring to old publications and sending officers overseas the RCN did a whole host of things to reconstitute the capability. Of course that capability was front and center when we sent the Kingston Class to BLUEGAME 99 and MOST training.
 
I understand. My original point was that just because a pub or training aid is old doesn't necessarily mean that it's obsolete. That was all I meant to convey.
 
So your point is that, if a ship breaks a valve in Japan or Australia, we should wait for the part to be made in Alberta, then flown to the ship, rather than have a local shop machine shop do it?
Our we can wait for it to made in china, land in Vancouver, then shipped to the depot in Quebec, QC'd there, then shipped out to the port to which they need it at.

That's not what I said at all, what I am saying is we can build a lot of those obsolete parts here in Canada that are laying up the various fleets. It could be water valve on the New AOPS, a steam valve on the old steamers or a packing ring on a azimuth drive . People have already stated we have a hard time getting obsolete parts due to the manufacture being out of business or the parts that are available not being an exact fit. Having to modify other parts to make it work. The time and effort to modify things to fit could be spent on just getting a replacement built.

Heck when I snapped a axle on my C3 in the States the local Artillery Sgt Maj offered to fix the broken axle for us. He hinted he might have a new old stock axle assembly. But the COC said no way would they let it be fixed by someone else.

Sometimes the Military/government looks at things differently then industry does. That causes issues that can be resolved or predicted to be worse then they should be.
Take a look at BC ferries and their issues getting parts for their ships. The parts need to manufactured by the supplier.
Why not have the specs sent here and set up a shop here to do it instead? expensive maybe, but at least it will get done.
 
Our we can wait for it to made in china, land in Vancouver, then shipped to the depot in Quebec, QC'd there, then shipped out to the port to which they need it at.

That's not what I said at all, what I am saying is we can build a lot of those obsolete parts here in Canada that are laying up the various fleets. It could be water valve on the New AOPS, a steam valve on the old steamers or a packing ring on a azimuth drive . People have already stated we have a hard time getting obsolete parts due to the manufacture being out of business or the parts that are available not being an exact fit. Having to modify other parts to make it work. The time and effort to modify things to fit could be spent on just getting a replacement built.

Heck when I snapped a axle on my C3 in the States the local Artillery Sgt Maj offered to fix the broken axle for us. He hinted he might have a new old stock axle assembly. But the COC said no way would they let it be fixed by someone else.

Sometimes the Military/government looks at things differently then industry does. That causes issues that can be resolved or predicted to be worse then they should be.
Take a look at BC ferries and their issues getting parts for their ships. The parts need to manufactured by the supplier.
Why not have the specs sent here and set up a shop here to do it instead? expensive maybe, but at least it will get done.
I wasn’t trying to to be difficult: I was trying to understand your position.

Look- I have had parts manufactured onboard the nearest USN carrier to get our Sea King serviceable, back in the day. They excelled at making hydraulic lines and machining simple parts. Send them the broken part and they would have a new part to you the next day- it was brilliant. We should make sure we have that capability on the new Protecteur class…
 
I wasn’t trying to to be difficult: I was trying to understand your position.

Look- I have had parts manufactured onboard the nearest USN carrier to get our Sea King serviceable, back in the day. They excelled at making hydraulic lines and machining simple parts. Send them the broken part and they would have a new part to you the next day- it was brilliant. We should make sure we have that capability on the new Protecteur class…
100% agree, Heck the Drilling rigs I worked on we made our own hydraulic lines. up to 1 inch in size. Other wise they were built at the closet shop and either driven in or helicoptered in depending on where we were working. It surprised me that the Military had limited ability to do this themselves.
 
These days if you have a model of the part (problematic for a lot of the older items) you can pretty much just print a new part.
Obviously they only works for certain materials / items, but at least with parts properly models and drawings for, you can get replacements done in a decent time and properly to spec.
 
These days if you have a model of the part (problematic for a lot of the older items) you can pretty much just print a new part.
Obviously they only works for certain materials / items, but at least with parts properly models and drawings for, you can get replacements done in a decent time and properly to spec.

Nothing runs like a (3D Printed) Deere....


John Deere Turns To 3D Printing More Efficient Engine Parts​


The new John Deere tractors rolling off the manufacturing line in Mannheim, Germany, have a first for the company: a metal 3D-printed engine part.

The global manufacturer of agricultural and turf equipment is no stranger to 3D printing, having used it for more than 20 years to make thousands of prototypes, tools, jigs, and fixtures across its global factories. But the 3D-printed stainless steel valve in the tractor’s fuel system is a new direction and part of what the company calls its Smart Industrial Strategy.

Launched in 2020, John Deere announced its vision to rapidly integrate new technologies in three focus areas: production systems, their technology stack, and lifecycle solutions.

3D printing is part of this vision, and this valve is one of its first fruits. It’s more efficient than if it were traditionally manufactured. It’s about 50% cheaper and significantly smaller, using less material. But this is just scratching the surface of why John Deere chose to 3D print this part.


 
Nothing runs like a (3D Printed) Deere....


John Deere Turns To 3D Printing More Efficient Engine Parts​


The new John Deere tractors rolling off the manufacturing line in Mannheim, Germany, have a first for the company: a metal 3D-printed engine part.

The global manufacturer of agricultural and turf equipment is no stranger to 3D printing, having used it for more than 20 years to make thousands of prototypes, tools, jigs, and fixtures across its global factories. But the 3D-printed stainless steel valve in the tractor’s fuel system is a new direction and part of what the company calls its Smart Industrial Strategy.

Launched in 2020, John Deere announced its vision to rapidly integrate new technologies in three focus areas: production systems, their technology stack, and lifecycle solutions.

3D printing is part of this vision, and this valve is one of its first fruits. It’s more efficient than if it were traditionally manufactured. It’s about 50% cheaper and significantly smaller, using less material. But this is just scratching the surface of why John Deere chose to 3D print this part.



We're actually working on this, and have piloted making some parts.

For ships, using naval bronze on smaller parts is an issue, only because it's less common and there isn't really much experience/data on how to do the various 3D printing so you don't end up with voids and faults, so the whole procedure needs working out, and then for combatants there is still the shock/noise/vibration qualification process so it isn't fast.

For larger parts it's more expensive then normal castings, but for obsolete small batches it's a great potential solution, as no one can be bothered to go through the bidding process for fiddly smaller bits in relatively low quantities (vice enough for 12 ships plus spares). Working with Monel to be compatible (most 3D printing is with steel/aluminum, which would just be a sacrificial anode in a piping system).

Very specialized equipment that has a really big footprint and not suitable for ships because of the stability requirement and some other issues, but can cut down the replacement time from months to weeks.

We've switched some big pumps to composite 3D printed impellors for the same reason, as it means you can get replacements in 2 weeks for a 10th of the price instead of 8-9 months, so has been great. Those went through a fairly long certification process followed by an at sea trial first though, so not a quick process.

Some people are complaining they are failing, but frankly if a pump eats a screwdriver a metal impellor is failing anyway; this is just cheaper/faster for us to fix when things like strainers on the inlet side are missing.
 
Our we can wait for it to made in china, land in Vancouver, then shipped to the depot in Quebec, QC'd there, then shipped out to the port to which they need it at.

That's not what I said at all, what I am saying is we can build a lot of those obsolete parts here in Canada that are laying up the various fleets. It could be water valve on the New AOPS, a steam valve on the old steamers or a packing ring on a azimuth drive . People have already stated we have a hard time getting obsolete parts due to the manufacture being out of business or the parts that are available not being an exact fit. Having to modify other parts to make it work. The time and effort to modify things to fit could be spent on just getting a replacement built.

Heck when I snapped a axle on my C3 in the States the local Artillery Sgt Maj offered to fix the broken axle for us. He hinted he might have a new old stock axle assembly. But the COC said no way would they let it be fixed by someone else.

Sometimes the Military/government looks at things differently then industry does. That causes issues that can be resolved or predicted to be worse then they should be.
Take a look at BC ferries and their issues getting parts for their ships. The parts need to manufactured by the supplier.
Why not have the specs sent here and set up a shop here to do it instead? expensive maybe, but at least it will get done.


My personal best:

Kelowna orders from Scarboruugh
Scarborough from Lund, Sweden
Lund from Eskildstuna
Eskildstuna from Germany
Germany from Brussels
Brussels from Washington, DC
Washington from Burlington, Ontaril

And 20% markup at every step of the way.
 
So... Given the $1 Billion cut to defence, anyone still imagine "reconstitution" is a thing?
 
When was it more than just lip service? I didn’t see anything actually change other than the buzzwords in use.
I'm more getting at the notion that "reconstitution" won't even be mentioned again. It will fall away from official use, and "do more with less" will once again become the mantra.
 
Reconstition was dead on arrival since the Army felt there was no need to consolidated any of our numerous HQs and that our 3 full-time brigades shouldnt change either
I don't think that fell under reconstitution, it was more Army restructure. You also conveniently left out the ridiculous structure of the PRes units; no Army org is without bloat.

Reconstitution sounded great, until tactical leaders ignored it and strat political direction doubled our expeditionary/domestic deployments making any attempt to rebuild fruitless.
 
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