Re: Israel Hits U.N. Post

[1feral1]

Tamouh???

Did you actually read the last few paragraphs....


I have emphasised that one part. What he is saying obviously went right over your head didn't it??

Your waisting your time Phil, this guy would argue the sky is green, after all, we know what he really wants on here.

Honestly though, he has carved his place on here, and he should not or never be taken seriously.

Ignore him.

Wes

 

[HItorMiss]

Hmmm you mean fighting a WAR requires winning by any and all means as swiftly as possible to stop your enemy and lessen the blood shed of innocents?

Jeez who would have thought that strategy up?

Tamouh, If I was an Officer and I had a known enemy hiding within close proximity of a UN bunker using it's neutral protection for a fighting position I don't think I could order my troops not to fire on it. When it comes to my life and the life of my men vs the life of UN observes and civilians being used as shields, I find I side with my life and my troop's life. Also by eliminating the use of that postion or the ability for my enemy to think that non-combatant's and neutral observers can be used as shields also means that it may stop their use at a future date seeing as they have lost their use as protection.

My above does not mean that the loss of those 4 UN observers is not tragic nor something not to be morned, but it does mean I at least see why it happened.

*Edit: Wesley has it right and I seemed to have fallen into the trap as well...If I must argue with Tamouh let it be over this;


THE EARTH IS FLAT!

 

[CanadaPhil]

..........To sum it: the report indicates the IDF was not deliberately attacking the post, yet they were hitting very close to it due to suspected activities around the UN post.

No your not getting it. They are not SUSPECTED activities. They are THERE. That is what he is saying.

From what I have gleaned, at the time of the fatal strike, the 4 UN personnel were NOT observing but taking cover in the lower bunker. There has also been some speculation that at that particular time, the post had IN FACT been overrun by Hezbollah who were actively firing at the IDF. Maybe the UN flag was no longer even flying at that point?? This has not been proved or disproved yet. That is the point of any inquiry.

To make it even simpler, when in combat if a flag is taken down or if another belligerents flag is seen to fly ABOVE the other, it is an indication in military terms that the position has been overrun and captured by the other force.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Break time is over. Play nice or it goes down for good next time.

 

[tamouh]

The Point is: Bombing a UN observation post from ANYONE at ANYTIME is WRONG and PROHIBITED. Israel or others are no exceptions.

CanadaPhil: Lets leave speculations aside, until what you're saying is confirmed and valid report then we need not to make up stuff. What you're saying amounts to propoganda talks of Hezbollah running over UN posts.

HitorMiss: If I'm an Officer near a UN post, receiving fire from a close proximity to it, I would not go after these positions with laser-guided 1,000lb missiles that have a chance of missing its target and put my troops, army and country in an awkward position. This reminds me of operation Medak Pocket!

 

[George Wallace]

HitorMiss: If I'm an Officer near a UN post, receiving fire from a close proximity to it, I would not go after these positions with laser-guided 1,000lb missiles that have a chance of missing its target and put my troops, army and country in an awkward position. This reminds me of operation Medak Pocket!

You'll have to excuse my ignorance of what you are trying to say here; but could you expand on what you are saying about laser-guided 1,000lb missiles and also what you mean about the MedaK Pocket?

 

[Jay4th]

In the same way that a school or church or culturally signifigant building is protected.  As soon as the enemy occupies or fires from said building, it is no longer protected and is now a legitimate target.  UN post or not.  Any recruit halfway through basic knows that.  Read the conventions, they are probably here somewhere. Or go get shot at from a protected site and see how you like sitting on your hands.  This is going nowhere.

 

[KevinB]

+1 Jay

P.S. I have no qualms shooting at UN vehicles...

and I was a Patricia.

 

[HItorMiss]

The Point is: Bombing a UN observation post from ANYONE at ANYTIME is WRONG and PROHIBITED. Israel or others are no exceptions.

Well point of fact bombing anyone is wrong really, but if you have to defend yourself or in the very your going to take offensive action I don;t begrudge my opponents or the people I am observing for doing their job.

HitorMiss: If I'm an Officer near a UN post, receiving fire from a close proximity to it, I would not go after these positions with laser-guided 1,000lb missiles that have a chance of missing its target and put my troops, army and country in an awkward position. This reminds me of operation Medak Pocket!

Here's the point Tamouh you'll never be an officer because you haven't the stones for it, you're an arm chair general who likes to pick fights based on ideology and conjecture. Picking which ever side of the fight that could possibly run counter to the majority of people on here, you're a Troll and one to which I am engaging because I have had enough of you and the vomitous you spew as fact or even opinion.

Medak pocket my left buttocks you haven't a clue what being under fire means, I know people (real people I talk to daily) that were there for it, They did their job's and even in that fight could look back and grudgingly see that the Croat's were doing what they thought was theirs. I have been under fire Tamouh, I know what actions I will and will not take to defend my life and that of my troop's, It's all well and good to sit in your nice comfy computer chair sipping a latte and spouting off about how " I would not go after these positions with laser-guided 1,000lb missiles that have a chance of missing its target and put my troops, army and country in an awkward position."  But you haven't been in that situation have you?....nor will you ever, because you haven't picked up a rifle or stood a watch in a war while others sleep safely, nor do I expect you ever will.

Tamouh, If I was in Israel this very second and was taking fire from Hezbollah, I think I would have to engage that target because lord knows I'm sure the professional soldiers manning that UN out post knew I had to.

Not that you'll ever be able to grasp this concept....

THE EARTH is FLAT!

*Edit: changed Serb for Croat, my brain had a gas attack, my appolgies to all those that were in that fight.

 

[tamouh]

There is no point of arguing further here as you seem to have made your mind that firing on the UN is OK against all rules and regulations.

gggg....I wonder if the Lebanese were returning IDF artillery fire and mistakenly hit the UN post, how different this post will be !! I'm not gonna argue over an agenda driven posts.

Firing on UN is WRONG, period.

 

[CanadaPhil]

CanadaPhil: Lets leave speculations aside, until what you're saying is confirmed and valid report then we need not to make up stuff. What you're saying amounts to propoganda talks of Hezbollah running over UN posts.

LOL!  

<radio static> Kettle....this is Pot.....Kettle....this is Pot.... OVER.

Well, Tamouh, that is the FIRST thing you have ever said here that half way makes any sense.

Exactly..........this entire thread has been hijacked by those who want to Monday morning quarterback and second guess without ANY REAL facts whatsoever.

Here is a suggestion..... Have you seen any of those links I posted in the "Middle East TV" thread?????? If you check some of them out, you can see EXACTLY what is being said by those you wish to act as an apologist for.

Why don't we DEBATE some of what has been coming directly from the mouths of those inciting all of this violence??

 

[HItorMiss]

Point of note, Shooting at anyone is wrong, but in a shooting war sometimes you have to make hard choices....you know choices you'll never have to make.

THE EARTH is FLAT!

 

[Loachman]

What you're saying amounts to propoganda talks of Hezbollah running over UN posts.

If not in, they were certainly on the doorstep. The account given by Maj HvK makes that pretty clear - and he was not pushing out propaganda about that for the reason that he gave.

If I'm an Officer near a UN post, receiving fire from a close proximity to it, I would not go after these positions with laser-guided 1,000lb missiles

But you're not, are you. You're safe at home, sitting at your computer, speculating based on a poor understanding of sketchy details. Your life is not on the line, your troops' lives are not on the line, and your countrymen's lives are not on the line. You don't have to make instant, serious decisions in a chaotic situation while under unimaginable pressure.

My guess is that every single Israeli directly involved in this thoroughly regrets what happened on may different levels. As professionals, I'm sure that they view the dead as brethren. As human beings, I'm sure that they feel deep sympathy for the families. As Jews, I'm sure that they regret the loss of innocent life. As Israelis, I'm sure that they regret what this has done to the international reputation of their country.

I am quite content to await the findings of an inquiry before forming judgement.

And unless negligence or some variety of criminal intent is proven, I am prepared to forgive them for this - not that I feel that that it is right for me or required of me to forgive. That's up to the families, for whom, of course, I have the utmost sympathy.

Stuff like this has been going on for centuries, and will continue to happen as long as more than two people are involved in any given conflict.

 

[Jay4th]

Well said.

 

[tomahawk6]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292016352&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The UN needs to pull these guys out. I feel sorry for them cut off from the world and their COC seem's to be less than forthcoming with information.

 

[KevinB]

T6 -- your 100% right

However- the UN ignoring troops in contact in the field -- I refuse to believe it 

 

[Michael OLeary]

HitorMiss: If I'm an Officer near a UN post, receiving fire from a close proximity to it, I would not go after these positions with laser-guided 1,000lb missiles that have a chance of missing its target and put my troops, army and country in an awkward position. This reminds me of operation Medak Pocket!

Since we're chatting in the hypothetical realm.....

[pondering on]
If I were a hezbollah operative, and had managed to acquire a laser designator that matched frequencies with the Israeli smart bombs, what target in my vicinity would I want to "paint" that the effective engagement of would most thoroughly discredit my enemy ....
[/pondering off]

Just wondering .....

 

[pbi]

However- the UN ignoring troops in contact in the field -- I refuse to believe it  

Personally, I would believe almost anything where the UN is concerned, but until we get a better analysis of this whole matter, it isn't really fair to assume too much.

Cheers

 

[Lost_Warrior]

As soon as the enemy occupies or fires from said building, it is no longer protected and is now a legitimate target.  UN post or not.  Any recruit halfway through basic knows that.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but if the enemy is attacking from a protected building, isn't the opposing army supposed to neutralize said enemy with the minimum amount of collateral damage possible? (ie: take the building as opposed to leveling it)

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

minimum BUT if the cost is too great then the gloves come off