Wow, for a discussion on patches, you all sure did cover a wide “patch” of ground. Lots of good discussion and many good points.
So. I just wanted to add in a few things. But before I get started I wanted to thank Brihard for all the great work. There are some terrific explanations on here. As usual, it’s a pleasure to read your stuff.
First, All good cops hate bad cops. Period, full stop. I am not talking about cops who make stupid mistakes or are just not good at the job. Those we have opinions on. Mainly thanks for trying, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. All businesses and agencies have those people. What I mean is those cops, convicted or not, who commit criminality. In 32 years with the Mounted Police 25+ Regular and 6 Aux I investigated / arrested a number of Mounties for criminal acts. Like all groups we have bad apples. Like all good groups we would like them to have an opportunity to experience the court process from the other side. We try very hard to do full impartial investigations and give them that chance.
But here is the thing. We are bound to give them the same Rights as all other Canadians. The same due process. So when you complain about some bad cop getting off in the Courts or getting a penalty other than getting fired under the Code of Conduct. Don’t blame the front line members. The cop you see on the street. The system isn’t perfect and not all bad cops get fired or get jail. As much as we can wish.
Some want cops fired instantly for any (perceived) transgression. Skip the investigation and throw away due process. Never going to happen and neither should it. One, it isn’t fair. Two, if we don’t have faith in the system how would you expect us to uphold it. I heard accountability mentioned. 100% for it. No question about it. Good cops, the vast majority of cops. Are for it. I heard someone say that they don’t care if a cop gets ruined by an investigation. Why not? I care about every person I detained in an investigation who ultimately had no involvement. I feel sad about every investigation that didn’t get the time or effort to give the victim the closure they deserved. I am mad for every person who was accused of something that I was forced to arrest and put in the system till we could get the evidence to know the truth. Why don’t you care?! Cops are just those members of the public doing this full time. But we can only do this honourably and professionally with your support.
In the last 16 years I spent 4 as a Unit 2 I/c, 8 as a Unit Commander in 5 different detachments. You want stress. Be the #1 or #2 in a small (5-10 member) detachment and charge one of your guys Code or Criminally, knowing that he will be your backup next Friday night. You want pride, be there on Friday when your deciding how long you can keep talking to the drunk guy with the 30/30 who has his wife and kids in the house, with ERT 12 hrs away and that same member has your back 100% throughout the event.
I also spent 2 yrs in a position “assisting” members with their grievances, Codes, Performance issues and when they got arrested. I saw great members put through the ringer wrongly and others not held accountable. One of the first things I learned was about Administrative Case Law. That’s the “average” someone gets for a similar offence. I saw people in the Code of Conduct (that I was assisting!) that I thought should be fired. Who Conduct Section or Adjudications in Ottawa told me would get between A and B because that was the “standard”. Do you know where that “standard” came from? Previous rulings within the RCMP, other Police Services, even other professions. Doctors, Lawyers, Etc. I saw a couple members the RCMP actually discharged. Who I thought should have left. Who got lawyers and convinced a Federal Court to order the RCMP to rehire them. As the punishment was too severe.................
So a few facts:
Training Standards. Tell me what you want, because I am never opposed to training. But to increase training you need to hire more cops. Because in general for RCMP members, after you take off 11 Stats, 4 weeks leave (average) this leaves you 46 weeks in a year. In contract policing, we then generally need every member for 42 to 44 weeks in a year operationally tasked. During those days there is not often time to do any real training. Just the sea of online courses that continuously are being made mandatory. That leaves 2 to 4 weeks for training in a year. That’s it, that’s all.
Accountability:What would you like?
- We have Performance standards. Start of year goals, learning plans, ongoing performance management, mid year reviews and year end assessments. But the people who manage those are also your operational supervisors every day. Every time someone adds another form or some other administrative task, it takes away from operational supervision.
- You make a big mistake on a file (bigger than unit performance management) expect an outside NCO or Officer to be assigned to do an Incident Review. The results of that go to at least the Division 2 I/c if not the CO and can go to the Commissioner. That can commence career altering consequences.
- if there is any indication of a breach of the Code of Conduct, expect to be Investigated. Expect it will be months before you get the result. Also since it is not criminal, you have no right to counsel. Plus you have a “Duty to Report”. In other words tell us everything but the very narrow point of the incriminating evidence. We even have Community Observers on many of these investigations. Many Indigenous related files.
- Of course there is the ever present Statutory investigation. Any perceived misuse of force can give you the opportunity to speak to a lawyer and wait 12 ish months to know the outcome.
- We also have Civil Court. Lawyers suing to get compensation from the Govt for all manner of imagined transgressions. The best part is where DOJ tells you that if in their opinion they feel you “Acted outside the Scope of your Duty” that they will recommend that the Govt not indemnify you in the proceedings. Of course since you are getting the nice DOJ lawyer for free. The Govt won’t reimburse you for your own lawyer. The guy suing for injuries after taking off from the police and crashing the stolen car and being injured. All because the bad police officer tried to pull him over.
- Lastly there is my favourite. The Public Complaint Process. I won’t give you my opinion of the present Chair of the CRCC nor her “qualifications”. Let me be blunt. If the CRCC wants to take over ALL parts of these, including hiring their own investigators. Have at it. In my experience with More than a couple of hundred of these. Less than 5% have any substance. Some of my favourites:
- officer didn’t give the person a ride home from jail,
- officer gave them a ticket,
- officer wasn’t wearing their hat,
- officer was blocking the road (for a parade),
- more than 2 officers had lunch together,
- officer took more than 15 min for a coffee break
- officer used the siren to respond to an emergency and woke them up,
- officer did X, Y or Z to them in cells (disproved by the 24 video system In cells constantly running)
- officer didn’t charge X politician for (insert perceived transgression),
- officer assisted Child and Family Services in seizing their child,
Etc.
To be perfectly fair. There are some valid complaints. Which result in Codes or Stat charges against members.
There are also people who call in complaints WEEKLY of the type listed above.
My own theory on why Often we may be behind in completing these is that since there are not designated positions who do all these (instead it is those same front line supervisors, but usually from a separate detachment) That the volume simply is too much to do as an extra on top of your regular position.
- We aren’t even talking about Fatality Inquiries and other Extra judicial forums.
This isn’t a Pity party. Just some insight into the regular Oversite. What more would you like?
You don’t want cops to go to Child Welfare calls, mental health calls, wellness checks. Well neither do we. But do you know who most often calls us to those calls; CFS workers, Mental Health workers (including DRs) and the family and friends of the person. Do you know what a wellness check is? It is most often to see if the person has harmed themselves. Usually the friends and family won’t themselves go as they have been assaulted in the past. You wish we had more deescalation training. Sure. But I have talked to the guy with the rifle for hrs, more than once. I have pleaded with the responsible community member who was off their meds (including my next door neighbour in one community) and got them to the hospital many times. I have also been jumped by the hiding person who tried to disarm me and kill me with my own gun. Talking only goes so far. And it always sounds easier in a classroom, in a big Center, told by a “professional” than what actually happens 100 Kms from backup at 0300.
Now, forget about the Toronto Cop making $150,000 in OT alone due to extra duties and traffic court. Let’s talk regular cops. Do I think as a S/Sgt that I make a pretty good living. $114,000 per yer base. Yep not bad. Now of course my wife always compares how I left a good job at a good company where I was making over $50,000 year in 1994 to join the RCMP for $28,000 going up to $45,000 after 3 years. Hmmmmmm, doesn’t sound as good now.
Okay let’s use Education as a criteria. Someone on here thinks Grade 12 vs a BA, vs an MA is the basis for what people should get paid. But in general is that true? Is that the “standard”. Well not really. In some industries / businesses education is needed. But it doesn’t always translate into a bigger salary. The “market” is what dictates salaries. Should all nurses with a Degree get paid more than a paramedic? What about tradesman? What about a teacher versus a cop. I can tell you what my wife thinks with her B Ed. I can tell you in my service I was offered a number of jobs in the oil patch for significantly more than I do the RCMP. An ex coworker is making $30,000 a month as a consultant. Now,
Would I like a raise, sure. Do I complain that I don’t make enough, no. Do I think in the RCMP that we deserve more than Muni Cops, yes. At least the same in base salary and better coverage for housing losses moving around and some extra for all the times we lost my wife’s salary, benefits and pension due to all the moves. Now I don’t think you can compare the RCMP to the CAF not even to MPs. It’s just not the same. You pay a cop a decent salary in the hope that they do the right thing. That they look after you and yours with as much care and compassion as they would their own and free from corruption. On nice days as well as in miserable weather in the middle of the night 200 kms from nowhere. Not just in downtown Toronto, Montreal, Surrey, but also in Goose Bay, Peace River and in Cross Lake and Chateh. So that they don’t lose that feeling of serving their communities. But ultimately, I decided to join. No different than every other Mountie and no different than every member of the CF. I Signed on the dotted line and took the Queens shilling. Whatever she decided that may be.
I will leave you with this. The Order of Police Merit almost never goes to operational cops. Management only folks, dogs and harness bulls keep off the grass. We almost never get a MSC or MSM no matter what, and again it isn’t awarded to the front line. The odd bravery decoration here and there and a smattering of Commissioner's Commendations but nothing compared to the work the members are actually doing. When I was near the end of my tour in Afghanistan the CAF told me the regs at that time allowed the CDS to award the police mentors in mission the GCS as we were armed, operationally deployed and imbedded right in CAF units. But alas they said the CAF members were unhappy about civilians getting the SWASM previously. So it was a GSM and I couldn’t even receive it with my platoon. It was presented in a quiet corner out of the way at KAF so as not disturb anyone at TF-K. No I am not shedding a tear for I am proud of my GSM and more of the time I served and those which I did it with. I more wished that the RCMP would have a 5th Battle Honour proudly displayed on our Guidon, “Afghanistan”.
I say this to show that the front line of the RCMP in the way of recognition is truly the red jacketed step child. So while a thin blue line on a small blue Canada flag may seem silly to you and an affront to those in Ottawa. It is for us who every day go out with the best of intentions. A display to those who will have our back, that we shall have theirs.
Thank you for your time.
GDH