Question about foreign service, medals and badges and para course for C.I.C.

[Towards_the_gap]

When did you get out? How long have you lived in Canada? What herrick/telic tours did you do?

 

[Pusser]

Never had a problem wearing my Brit medals after I switched over in 1981, including my GSM for NI.

But I did have to ask formal permission in writing from some office in NDHQ (can't remember which), and along with permission to wear my medals, permission was also granted to wear Canadian jump wings as I held Brit wings.

Somebody will know who you should ask permission from.

This is the correct answer.  That is, you have to ask permission and it is highly likely that you will be allowed to wear all medals earned while in the British Army (even for UN/NATO missions in which Canada is/was not a participant).  I've known a number of Canadians with service in the UK who wear their GSM with NI bar.  Your request has to go through the Chain of Command to the Director of Honours and Recognition (DH&R), who in turn will forward it to the Chancellery of Honours at Rideau Hall.  It can take a little while, but it will likely all be approved in due course.

I'm not absolutely sure on the para wings, but my best recollection of the policy is that if you have successfully completed a course that is deemed equivalent to the Canadian course, then you are entitled to wear the Canadian badge.  Only under very special circumstances would you be allowed to wear a foreign badge in Canada (one criteria being that the CF has no equivalent badge, which is not the case here).  This does not, however, prevent a lot of people wearing foreign badges on their mess kits.

As an aside, any service with the British Army (or any of Her Majesty's Forces around the globe) that has not been recognized with another long service medal (in this case the British Army LS&GC) can be used toward award of the Canadian Forces Decoration (CD), provided that the last five years are served with the CF.  For example, if you did seven years with the British Army (i.e. no entitlement to LS&GC yet) and then joined the CF, you could be awarded the CD after five years in the CF (provided you meet all the other criteria).  However, if you did 15 years in the British Army and did receive the LS&GC, then you would have to serve 12 years in the CF to get the CD.  If you did 20 years in the British Army and received the LS&GC, then you would have to do seven years in the CF to receive the CD.  In another example, British Army officers (who are not normally eligible for long service medals) with 17 years service in the UK may be awarded a CD and bar all at once after five years in the CF (i.e. for 22 years total service to Her Majesty).

 

[McG]

So basically I can were my NATO Afghanistan medal and my Afghanistan op herrick service medal ...

Having recently seen the a decision letter from DHH on this topic - as UK sees their medal as the official (for lack of better word) recognition, you would not be authorized to wear the NATO medal from the same service that the UK medal recognizes. 

 

[Pusser]

Having recently seen the a decision letter from DHH on this topic - as UK sees their medal as the official (for lack of better word) recognition, you would not be authorized to wear the NATO medal from the same service that the UK medal recognizes.

We have similar rules.  If Canada issues a medal to recognize a period of service, then the UN/NATO/other medal for the same service is not inducted into the Canadian Honours System (and thus, cannot be worn with Canadian Honours or on CF uniform).  In short, Canada does not permit dual recognition of the same service.  For the most part, this does preclude someone from accepting the second medal and hanging it on their wall.  They just can't mount and wear it with their Canadian medals on their uniform.  However, if they are recognizing two different periods of service (and I don't know the specifics here), then it may be possible to wear both.  If both were authorized to be worn in the UK, it is possible that both would be authorized here.

The Director of History and Heritage (DHH) has nothing to do with this.  The request goes through the Director of Honours and Recognition (DH&R), but the actual decision comes from the Chancellery/Governor General.

When considering foreign awards to be worn with Canadian Honours, two (of several) key questions are:

1)  From where does it emanate?  Her Majesty is the fount of all Canadian Honours, so no foreign award will be approved unless it is awarded by a Head of State (e.g. a medal from the US Secretary of the Navy would not be approved); and

2)  Would the award constitute dual recognition (i.e. is the individual in receipt of or eligible for a Canadian Honour for the same service)?

 

[formercadet1029]

Wow, this is a nutty topic. Just wear them all together on a blue blazer or something, not much anyone can do about that.

 

[Neill McKay]

Wow, this is a nutty topic. Just wear them all together on a blue blazer or something, not much anyone can do about that.

It's good to get it right, even if you won't go to jail for getting it wrong.

 

[Pusser]

Wow, this is a nutty topic. Just wear them all together on a blue blazer or something, not much anyone can do about that.

The OP is asking if he can wear the medals and qualification badge he earned while in the British Army on his CF uniform.  It's a valid question and there is a correct answer.  Why make a lazy comment that doesn't even address what the OP is actually asking?

 

[brihard]

Following up- one of our NCOs here at my current tasking served with the Scots Guards, and wears his South Atlantic Medal from the Falklands, his General Service Medal with Northern Ireland bar, and his long sevice/good conduct medal. They are all worn after his CD.

 

[formercadet1029]

The OP is asking if he can wear the medals and qualification badge he earned while in the British Army on his CF uniform.  It's a valid question and there is a correct answer.  Why make a lazy comment that doesn't even address what the OP is actually asking?

Well, judging by all of the responses, it doesn't seem to be 100% clear as what is what because it seems everyone is on their own plan. Doesn't it? While I think medals are an important part of the overall experience of putting yourself at risk, my attitude about this specific topic is somewhat different than many other people you'll find posting here. I have a couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force, most of them decline to wear these things on their dress uniform unless they are absolutely directed to. Most of us belong to the anti Walts group on facebook.

Moderator edit: Removed link to Facebook page with racist content. You might chuckle at it but it violates site guidelines. It is also in poor taste.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Well, judging by all of the responses, it doesn't seem to be 100% clear as what is what because it seems everyone is on their own plan. Doesn't it? While I think medals are an important part of the overall experience of putting yourself at risk, my attitude about this specific topic is somewhat different than many other people you'll find posting here. I have a couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force, most of them decline to wear these things on their dress uniform unless they are absolutely directed to. Most of us belong to the anti Walts group on facebook.

Regardless if the OP was a "Walt" which I doubt he would be asking a simple question such as he did, numerous posters have provided the regs and valid cases of people authorized to wear these medals to enlighten the OP.

Your argument has no validity or context to this thread. You've pretty much accomplished the internet's version of standing on a soapbox on a street corner trying to shout your opinions louder than people carrying on a normal conversation. Congratulations 

Edited by moderator to remove link, provided in quote from another member, to Facebook group with racist content.

 

[Journeyman]

I have a couple of good friends in the reserves and reg force, most of them decline to wear these things on their dress uniform unless they are absolutely directed to.

Which "things" are you specifically referring to -- British jump wings or British campaign medals?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I'm ex-1 PARA.

I wear the Canadian wings with the silver maple leaf and my NI medal. It was all sorted out during the enrolment process. I also wear US wings on my DEU as per SOP.

On my mess kit I wear the Blue Badge of courage on my right shoulder, Commando Dagger on my left (did an exchange with Royal after doing their AACC), Canadian Wings with silver maple leaf (as I also served with a Canadian Operational Parachute unit), US wings, NI medal and CD. Didn't need any permission to put all the foreign bling on the mess kit. Seriously considering transferring it all to a sash of some kind...

I also carry an extremely large wooden racing spoon but you fancy SFSG 'Hollywood crows' probably wouldn't know about that, never having had to eat out of a mess tin like a proper PARA.  ;D

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Most of us belong to the anti Walts group on facebook.

Who is this "us" of whom you speak?  is it people with the same military experience as yourself?

I was a former Army Cadet, joined when I was 12, left when I turned 19 in 1989.

I was the Cadet RSM/CWO, left with Gold Star with Wreath, Advanced First Aide and Crossed Rifles & Crown

Summer Training:

'84 Junior Cadet, Ipperwash
'85 Cadet Leader, Ipperwash
'86 Wilderness Leadership, Petawawa
'87 Leadership and Challenge, Banff
'88 Basic Para, Edmonton
'89 Staff Cadet Wilderness Leadership Basic, Ipperwash

Years later, I received an Army Cadet Long Service medal, with two service bars. I don't recall there being any medal system in place when I was a cadet???

I assume from this that you decline to wear your "Army Cadet Long Service medal, with two service bars" for fear of appearing "Walt-ish"...

Edited by moderator to remove link, provided in quote from another member, to Facebook page with racist content.

 

[formercadet1029]

Who is this "us" of whom you speak?  is it people with the same military experience as yourself?

I assume from this that you decline to wear your "Army Cadet Long Service medal, with two service bars" for fear of appearing "Walt-ish"...

Edited by moderator to remove link, provided in quote from another member, to Facebook page with racist content.

I wasn't aware that I had to post my service experience as well (like many of the braggarts found here seem to do every other minute), to qualify my opinion. The original question of that thread you quoted me from was asking what cadet qualifications people had. Typically infantry guy trying to make himself feel better about have to walk everywhere, lol. 

BTW, I've never worn my cadet cookie medal, as it sits in a box with the rest of my "real" ones, lol.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I wasn't aware that I had to post my service experience as well (like many of the braggarts found here seem to do every other minute), to qualify my opinion, as your quote is from a cadet only related thread, here in this cadet related forum. BTW, I've never worn my cadet medal, it's in a box with the rest of my "real" ones, lol.

Former cadet,

If you want to try and throw your weight around in a "cadet only related thread" in a "cadet related forum", then I'm sure you can go find an appropriate forum to do that in. Here, you get to deal with the entirety of the membership, and your personal Walt-hunting attitude is not helping. If you want to use that approach elsewhere on the internet, please do so, here we prefer  to wait until someone actually outs themselves in an undeniable fashion, because the only thing worse than being a Walt, is to accuse someone wrongly. There are more than enough people here who can interpret the Dress Manual and current regulations, and who have recent experience with the processes on seeking authorization for items that are not specifically mentioned in the Dress Manual. In comparison you probably don't have much expertise to offer the membership here, and your membership in a self-appointed "walt hunting" group doesn't count for much.  So, rather than trying throw your own weight around here, why don't you relax and let Milnet.ca police its own actions.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[formercadet1029]

Former cadet,

If you want to try and throw your weight around in a "cadet only related thread" in a "cadet related forum", then I'm sure you can go find an appropriate forum to do that in. Here, you get to deal with the entirety of the membership, and your personal Walt-hunting attitude is not helping. If you want to use that approach elsewhere on the internet, please do so, here we prefer  to wait until someone actually outs themselves in an undeniable fashion, because the only thing worse than being a Walt, is to accuse someone wrongly. There are more than enough people here who can interpret the Dress Manual and current regulations, and who have recent experience with the processes on seeking authorization for items that are not specifically mentioned in the Dress Manual. In comparison you probably don't have much expertise to offer the membership here, and your membership in a self-appointed "walt hunting" group doesn't count for much.  So, rather than trying throw your own weight around here, why don't you relax and let Milnet.ca police its own actions.

Milnet.ca Staff

Well, I'm certainly not a Walt hunter by any stretch. My comments in this thread are more than worthy in my opinion, since everyone in here seems to be contradicting each other with whatever info is being posted. There doesn't seem to be clear answer because it's obvious that whatever regulations are in place, people are wearing what they want. My opinion is this, if you're awarded so0me type of service medal under the honours system, then it should be ok to wear it, as many appear to be.

Throwing my weight around? Are suggsting I should go on a diet,, lol? Sorry, just my poor attempt at humour.

 

[Strike]

My comments in this thread are more than worthy in my opinion, since everyone in here seems to be contradicting each other with whatever info is being posted. There doesn't seem to be clear answer because it's obvious that whatever regulations are in place, people are wearing what they want.

No one is really contradicting each other.  What they all have pretty much said is to go through the CoC and ask for permission.  There may be different results, but that is due to the various different types of leaders in said CoCs.

 

[formercadet1029]

No one is really contradicting each other.  What they all have pretty much said is to go through the CoC and ask for permission.  There may be different results, but that is due to the various different types of leaders in said CoCs.

Fair enough.

 

[Journeyman]

So once you're done bemoaning braggarts, while claiming to have a box of "real" medals....are you going to answer this question, posed earlier?

 

[formercadet1029]

So once you're done bemoaning braggarts, while claiming to have a box of "real" medals....are you going to answer this question, posed earlier?

Well, I guess I forced into the pissing competition just to validate my opinion, lol. : : : which was the point of my comment, it's unfortunate that a blood sample needs to be provided in this forum just to offer an opinion.

As far as my earlier reference goes, I was at a mess dinner a few months ago in Toronto and a friend of my was taking heat for not wearing his campaign and service medals. His reply was this, in his opinion, the fact that he made it back from his last tour (armoured regiment) without being the target of a Taliban bomb buried in the road should speak miles more than some ribbon and tin ever could.