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Quebec Liberals call province 'nation'

Nation to Nation? I am afraid I don't know what that means.  Now Government to Government - your Clan/Band/Tribe/Nation leaders with the Government that represented the interests of Canada - now that I understand.

As to the "racist", "redneck" etc.... You're not helping your cause as Bruce points out.

It does sound as if you have some issues pertaining to the settlement, and it wouldn't be the first time that a developer had colluded with a rate-payers association, municipal, provincial or even federal government.  From what I understand it has even happened to some of my fellow WASPs that, unlike myself, were born here in Canada.  I suppose I could call that racism too given the nature of our federal government over the last few decades but it has also happened in the lands of the "Other" Founding Nation.  ;D

When it happens to "Us", if I can use that term, "We" are restricted to using the courts, whose authority we accept (reluctantly on occasion) or else organizing to chuck the bums out of parliament and get the laws changed.

By the way, I understand there are a lot of Scots Cree up your neck of the woods.  Good fiddlers.  ;D

 
>How is this for one law (this ties in with the land claims thread).

What you then go on to describe clearly isn't one law for all.  I can't offhand conceive of any excuse by which I could as a matter of birthright claim exceptional rent-seeking or other resource use privileges stemming from outright ownership, either as a person or a member of a group.  I realize legal traditions in Canada allow some people to do so by accident of birth, so I suppose it sucks to be me.  Are you complaining that you find the process for pursuing privileges I can never have to be cumbersome?

>So when you say "One Law for all"  I call utter and complete B.S., or else I see plain ignorance.

If some other people are misusing the law, I'm certain the productive course of action is to deal with them through the system, not to throw the system away.

"One law for all" would mean you and I share the same opportunities and limitations under the law.
 
If Quebec is a "Nation", then is Canada? Andrew Coyne speaks about the underpinnings of true Civic Nationalism.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=5cb087f8-6ef6-479d-9f3b-56c003d59633&p=1

The real question: Is Canada a nation?
 
Andrew Coyne
National Post
Wednesday, November 15, 2006

With the Liberal party busy tying itself in knots over whether Quebec is a nation, speculation in certain media quarters has turned to the opening this presents for Stephen Harper to campaign in the next election on a One Canada message.

Fat chance. No Canadian political leader has crafted such an appeal in decades. Either they don't believe it, or they don't dare say it, but it is a strange fact that among Canada's political class, it is considered provocative, even outre, to suggest that Canada is a nation. There is a certain irony in this, to say the least. Over the years, the "national unity" industry has invested a great deal of time and effort in the proposition that native peoples are nations, or that Quebec is a nation. The one group it hasn't occurred to them to recognize in the same way is the people of Canada.

So perhaps we have been asking the wrong question. The question is not: Is Quebec a nation? The question is: Is Canada?

It cannot have escaped notice that, in all the time Quebec has been acquiring the trappings of nationhood, the government of Canada has been discarding them. The lexicon of nationhood has slowly slipped from official use. There remain certain vestiges, of course -- the Department of National Defence, the National Capital Commission -- but they stand out as oddities. What once was known as the "Dominion" government has been downgraded to the "federal" government, when it is not derided as "Ottawa." In Quebec, it is not Canada that is defended, but "federalism." There's a line to stir the heart: there is some corner of a foreign field that is forever federalism.

Perhaps at its origins this was rooted in an association of nationhood with Empire. To say that "Canada is a nation" risked implying that it was an English (or English-speaking) nation. But if that were ever true, it is not true now. While such an assumption might have lurked somewhere within John Diefenbaker's invocation of One Canada, it plainly could have no part in Pierre Trudeau's. Nor, certainly, was it the vision of the Fathers of Confederation.

But somewhere on the way to rediscovering their vision of a "political nationality," independent of race or language, we stopped believing that Canada was a nation at all. In the political science faculties, the idea is considered quaint. Ambitious politicians soon learn that careers are made by appealing, not to a shared, pan-Canadian nationhood, but to regional chauvinisms. Quebec nationalism, in particular, is forever to be given deference. We might entrench recognition of Quebec as a nation in the constitution. But Canada? "The Constitution of Canada is to be interpreted in a manner consistent with the recognition that Canada is a nation." Try to imagine the response.

Actually, we don't have to imagine. There was an attempt, once, to refer to "the people of Canada" in constitutional form, albeit safely in the preamble.

It was in 1980, in an early draft of the patriation bill. "We, the people of Canada," it began. As Trudeau himself related, in his famous appearance before the Senate committee on the Meech Lake Accord, "it did not get beyond the fifth word ... There was one great scandal, because we started the preamble with the words, 'We, the people of Canada.' The outrage of [the] Quebec intelligentsia and the Quebec media was enormous."

Well, of course. Because whereas the idea of the Canadian nation, being civic and inclusive, can withstand competing ideas of nationhood -- you can identify, if you choose, with the Quebec nation, or the French-Canadian nation, as well as the Canadian nation -- the idea of nation that underlies Quebec nationalism, being language-based and exclusive, is necessarily a rejection of Canadian nationhood, at least as it applies to (francophone) Quebecers.

This is true not only of hard-line separatists, but their softer, provincialist cousins.

For Quebec nationalism, in whatever form, is based on the idea that Canada is built, not on the bedrock of a broad, pan-Canadian nation to which every citizen belongs, but as some sort of compact between Quebec, on the one hand, and the rest of Canada, on the other. It is understandable that Quebec nationalists would try to make that argument.

What is inexplicable is why federal political leaders would do the same. Somebody has to make the case for Canada. This is no mere semantic point. That single, declarative sentence -- Canada is a nation -- implies a whole set of ideas about the country and how it works. It implies that every Canadian is tied to every other Canadian, directly, without the intermediation of province or other affiliation. It implies that they combine to make up a single political entity -- not a "marriage" or a "partnership" or a "compact" between sub-entities -- even if they choose to govern themselves federally.

And it implies a direct relationship between those citizens, individually and collectively, and the one government that answers to them all: the national -- or if you prefer, federal -- government. That's critical. Federalism, as such, is impossible without it.

So let's say it, out loud and without apology: Canada is a nation. Le Canada est une nation. And let's ask our national political leaders to say it, too.

ac@andrewcoyne.com

© National Post 2006
 
November 22, 2006

Prime Minister Stephen Harper moved to defuse a potential national unity time bomb Wednesday by introducing a motion to recognize that Quebecers form a nation within a united Canada.  quote from Toronto Star

I guess Quebec is a nation according to the Prime Minister of Canada
 
I think we need to note a couple of crafty ambiguities in PM Harper's resolution:

• It is the Québecois, the people, not Québec, the province or political entity, which is the nation; and

• The Québecois constitute a nation only within a united Canada.

This serves several political purposes:

• It helps Jean Charest in Québec – he can say: “See, I got the Feds to agree we are a nation.  The separatists could not manage that.  All you Québec nationalists had best vote for me.”

• It may make up for Conservative actions in Afghanistan and on Middle East Policy and for inactions re: Fiscal Imbalance.

• It may further complicate the Liberal leadership race by making live easier for Ignatieff.

Good politics.  The status (good, bad or indifferent) of the policy, if one ever emerges, is in doubt.
 
The resolution, as introduced into the House of Commons yesterday:

Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC):
    Mr. Speaker, tomorrow the Bloc Québécois will present the House with an unusual request that we here at the federal Parliament define the Québécois nation. As a consequence, with the support of the government and with the support of our party, I will be putting on the notice paper later today the following motion.
    “That this House recognize that the Québécois form a nation within a united Canada”.
    Mr. Speaker, the real intent behind the motion by the leader of the Bloc and the sovereignist camp is perfectly clear. It is to recognize not what the Québécois are, but what the sovereignists would like them to be.
    To the Bloc, the issue is not that Quebec is a nation—the National Assembly has already spoken on that subject; the issue is separation. To them, “nation” means “separation”. We saw its true intent on October 27, when it said that the NDP had recognized for decades that Quebec was a nation, but that every time there was a referendum its actions contradicted the positions it had taken.
    In other words, if you recognize that the Québécois form a nation, you have to vote yes in a referendum on separation. The attempt by the leader of the Bloc to persuade Quebeckers of good faith to support separation despite themselves brings to mind what his mentor, Jacques Parizeau, said about lobster traps. Quebeckers are not taken in by these clumsy tactics.
    The former PQ premier, Bernard Landry, asked this question:
— once that recognition is achieved, you must know, in all honesty, that you will then be faced with the question: why should the nation of Quebec be satisfied with the status of province of another nation and forego equality with yours and every other nation?
    Mr. Speaker, the answer is clear. Quebeckers have always played an historic role in Canada’s progress, through their public spirit, courage and vision, by building a confident, autonomous and proud Quebec showing its solidarity within a strong, united, independent and free Canada.
    When Champlain landed in Quebec, he did not say that this would not work, it was too far away, it was too cold, or it was too difficult. No. Champlain and his companions worked hard because they believed in what they were doing, because they wanted to preserve their values, because they wanted to build a lasting and secure country. That is exactly what happened nearly 400 years ago, when Canada, as a country, was founded.
    Quebeckers know who they are. They know that they have participated in the founding of Canada and in its development and its greatness. They know that they have preserved their language and their unique culture, and that they have advanced their values and their interests within Canada. The real question is simple: do the Québécois form a nation within a united Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Québécois form a nation independent of Canada? The answer is no, and it will always be no.
    Mr. Speaker, throughout their history, Quebeckers have always known who the prophets of doom are and who the true guides of their destiny are.
    Once again, the leader of the Bloc and his separatist friends are not concerned with defining who Quebeckers are but rather what they want them to become, a separate country.
    The separatists do not need the Parliament of Canada to define what is meant by the sociological termination. My preference has been well-known. I believe this is not the job of the federal Parliament. It is the job of the legislature of Quebec. However, the Bloc Québécois has asked us to define this and perhaps that is a good thing because it reminds us that all Canadians have a say in the future of this country.
    Having been asked by the Bloc to define the Québécois, we must take a position. Our position is clear. Do the Québécois form a nation within Canada? The answer is yes. Do the Québécois form an independent nation? The answer is no, and the answer will always be no because Quebeckers, of all political persuasions, from Cartier and Laurier to Mulroney and Trudeau, have led this country and millions like them, of all political persuasions, have helped to build it. With their English and French-speaking fellow citizens, and people drawn from all nationalities of this earth, they have been part of making this country what it is, the greatest country in the world.
    To millions more who live in a dangerous and dividing world, this country is a shining example of the harmony and unity to which all peoples are capable and to which all humanity should aspire.
    I say to my federalist colleagues and to the separatist side that we here will do what we must and what our forefathers have always done to preserve this country, Canada, strong, united, independent and free.


 
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/22/061122211050.bf2kf5r0.html

PM to recognize francophone Quebec as 'a nation'
Nov 22 4:10 PM US/Eastern



Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in Parliament he would recognize the country's francophone Quebec province as a "nation" within Canada.

In an unprecedented move to woo Quebec separatists, he said he would present a motion later in the day asking the House of Commons to "recognize that Quebecers constitute a nation within a united Canada."

Quebec has held and lost two referendums on separation from the rest of Canada, in 1980 and 1995. Federalists won the second vote by a narrow margin.

Harper's surprise move, he said, was aimed at blocking "an unusual request" by the separatist Bloc Quebecois to define Quebecois as a nation.

Quebecers typically understand the term to mean "a people," while Anglophone Canadians consider it akin to nationhood, with all the international responsibilities and benefits that come with it.

Politicians have tried to avoid debating this sensitive issue over the past decade, fearing it would lead to a constitutional crisis, or a loss of support in the next election in Quebec province, which holds 25 percent of parliamentary seats.

"For (the Bloc), 'nation' means separation," Harper said.

"Quebecers have always played a historic role in advancing Canada with solidarity, courage, and vision, and to build a confident Quebec, an independent Quebec that's proud and has solidarity within a strong and united Canada, an independent and free Canada," he said.

"Do Quebecers form a nation within a united Canada? The answer is yes. Do Quebecers form an independent nation from Canada? The answer is no, and it will always be no."
 
If there is anybody in this country that doubts Jack Layton is an idiot of the highest order, the last line in this article should quickly change your mind. What a numpty.


Quebec a nation without conditions: Bloc motion
Last Updated: Thursday, November 23, 2006 | 12:29 PM ET
CBC News
Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe said Thursday the prime minister is trying to "pull the wool over the public's eyes," and urged MPs to consider a separatist motion declaring Quebec a nation "that is currently within Canada."

Duceppe introduced his party's amended motion a day after Stephen Harper announced his own motion to recognize Quebec as a nation within a united Canada.

BQ Leader Gilles Duceppe said Quebec cannot be boiled down to one of two options: a nation within a united Canada, or a separate, sovereign nation.
(CBC) "The prime minister clumsily tried to pull the wool over the public's eyes with his motion," said Duceppe, who opened debate on his motion Thursday. "When he attaches that condition, we see through it as a partisan tactic."

Quebec cannot be boiled down to one of two options: a nation within a united Canada, or a separate, sovereign nation, said Duceppe.

"Never should the existence of the Quebec nation be subjected to what your preferred option is.

"I hope the prime minister will recognize the Quebec nation. Period," he said. "I hope elected officials will take a stand on the issue without any strings."

Continue Article

Bloc House leader Michel Gauthier added a new twist Thursday, tabling the amendment to his party's motion adding that Quebecers form a nation "actuellement au Canada" — that is currently within Canada.

The move spawned a flurry of parliamentary gamesmanship.

Deputy Liberal leader Lucienne Robillard proposed an amendment to the amendment, adding the adjective "united" to Canada and dropping "currently" so that it would declare Quebecers form a nation "within a united Canada," virtually cloning the Tory proposal.

The Bloc agreed to add the word "united" but insisted on keeping "currently." Robillard wouldn't consent and her proposed sub-amendment died.

Harper, who was in Toronto Thursday to announce details of a proposed bail reform package, didn't answer any questions on his motion, which will be voted on Monday.

Liberals, NDP to support PM
The Liberal caucus on Thursday agreed to support Harper's motion, although MPs are split.

While interim Liberal Leader Bill Graham stood to applaud Harper following his announcement, Liberal MP Jim Karygiannis said he'll vote against it.

"Are we in Canada to be a nation of nations?" he asked.

Quebec Liberal Senator Serge Joyal warned it could be a slippery slope.

"The very moment you introduce the concept of a nation within Canada, you open the door to the Acadian Nation, to the First Nations, to all the other groups that might form a cultural community," he said.

"Newfoundland could be a nation."

MP Belinda Stronach said she didn't have a problem with the prime minister's motion if it helped Quebec "protect its unique culture and identity."

NDP Leader Jack Layton said Wednesday his caucus would support both the Tory and BQ motions.
With files from the Canadian Press
 
While I am usually with Prime Minister Harper, on this one I am against him, and agree with the view articulated by Andrew Coyne:

http://strongconservative.blogspot.com/2006/11/coyne-on-canadian-nationalism.html

Coyne on Canadian Nationalism

Andrew Coyne writes in the National Post that Harper's decision to recognize Quebec as a nation within Canada is essentially the end of Canadian nationhood. He argues that Harper, while appearing clever politically, has set the stage for Quebec eventually achieving independence from Canada.

But what a strategic coup! Crafty ol' PM: take the Bloc's impending motion "that Quebecers form a nation" and tack on "within a united Canada." Who would have seen that one coming? Who, except the Bloc leader, Gilles Duceppe, who instantly pressed his advantage: nations, he reminded the Prime Minister, "have rights." Indeed they do. So when the time comes, and the Prime Minister tries to impress upon Quebecers, as he said yesterday -- in English but not in French -- that "all Canadians have a say in the future of their country," that it is not up to Quebecers to decide by themselves, that no referendum, however contrived, gives them the right to detach a part of Canada from the rest, how will he defend this view: how, when he has formally asserted they are a nation? What overriding national interest will he assert? In whose name will he speak?

Coyne's point is excellent. I was shocked when I heard the news yesterday that Harper was putting forward such an idea. I was disheartened further to find out that the NDP and Liberals eagerly embraced the idea, that's a recipe for disaster.

But fine: some Quebecers think they are. People are entitled to believe what they want to believe. Quebec nationalists are entitled to argue that Quebec is a nation all they want. But somewhere, sometime, somebody has to put the other proposition: that Canada is a nation; that Quebecers are a part of that nation; that they have as much or more in common with other Canadians as they do with each other. Ordinarily, I would expect my Prime Minister, at least, to do that.

Hard to argue against that if you believe in Canadian federalism. My worry is what signal this sends to the men and women fighting and dying in Afghanistan right now. Are they fighting for a united Canada, or for two nations within some kind of absurd multicultural mish-mash of societies.

When the brave young men stormed up the ridge at Vimy in 1917, they did it for the first time under a united Canadian command. The idea of a country being composed of two nations is ridiculous. What Harper and supporters of this idea of "Quebec nationhood" may actually be doing is paving the way for the fulfillment of manifest destiny.

The argument is ultimately between the idea of "Blood" or ethnic nationalism vs the idea of an overriding and enveloping "Civic Nationalism". Ethnic Nationalism is the politics of exclusion, setting up "us" vs the "others", and leads down the road towards conflict, civil war and even genocide. Civic Nationalism is inclusive, draws everyone into a larger national family, pools talents and resources and leads to great power status for the polities which can harness this idea the best (The Res Publica Roma, the  Roman Empire and the United States are the prime exemplars of this idea in history).

In the Canadian context, this idea will keep rising up to block or divert attention from other, more pressing national level issues and initiatives. This has hamstrung us through our history, and Prime Minister Harper has given it new legs. I hope this does not become his legacy to Canada.

(Ironic note; The Conservative slogan in this by election is "Getting things done for ALL of us". Now we can fight over who "All of us" really are).
 
I'm afraid that like the poor this debate will always be with us.  The very facts that nobody can define a nation, that a nation is self-defining, that a nation (according to that Yankee idiot Woodrow Wilson - and a Democrat IIRC) has a right to self-determination, means that it can be used as an effective rallying cry for any mob.  In addition to Quebecois and Scots, we have Brits and Kurds, Catalonians and Chinese, not to mention Russians and Americans as well as the Nations of Israel and Islam and the Aryan Nations, all of whom define a nation any which way they choose to suit the occasion.  All of them predicated on Wilson's silly-ass comment and a desire to secure the top-chair.

One way to grasp the nettle is to say "OK.  You're a nation. Carry on.  You're still not splitting up my country."

I find it risible.  Some of the Blocistes have taken to deriding Ottawa as being neo-colonialists, colonialists, colonial remnants, Imperialists............. What the devil do they figure their "Pur Laine - Axminster Brand" ancestors were up to when they came over?  Pretty low moral ground but there you are.....

Yup, kind of like taking out the garbage or cleaning the bathroom.  A never ending chore.

 
Kirkhill said:
I'm afraid that like the poor this debate will always be with us. 

Hope not. 

"My friends, some years ago the federal government declared war on poverty — and poverty won." - Ronald Reagan
 
I have no interest in paying to sustain this never-ending cultural tantrum. Let people be whatever the hell they want to wherever they live; if they want some of my tax money to fulfill their aspirations, cut them loose.
 
Brad Sallows said:
I have no interest in paying to sustain this never-ending cultural tantrum. Let people be whatever the hell they want to wherever they live; if they want some of my tax money to fulfill their aspirations, cut them loose.

Agreed.
 
Listening to Talk Radio this morning (CFRA) and a woman sent in an email that was read.  In it she stated that if Quebec wanted to be a 'Nation' than this would make them the "2nd Nation" after the Natives who are the "1st Nations".  She asked if this would now require Quebecer's to live on 'Reserves'?
 
Preston Manning had anticipated some of this many years ago:

http://www.officiallyscrewed.com/blog/?p=604

The Game Of Chess Played With “Nations” Has A New Grandmaster
Filed under: Politics-Federal — TrustOnlyMulder @ 11:20 pm
And his name is Stephen Harper.

Years ago, Preston Manning gave a speech at a Reform Party Convention. Below is the speech with commentary as it appears in William Johnson’s book Stephen Harper And the Future of Canada. (I hand typed this from the book so please pardon the typos and note the bolded parts are bolded by me)

On October 28th, Preston Manning gave perhaps the most memorable speech of his career. it is recalled as “the House Divided speech,” and it was to ring throughout the country. Its central focus was the Quebec question, in the spirit of the Quebec motion.

Manning set up his discussion with a telling joke: “Last year, in a magnanimous effort to redress regional disparities, Edmonton allowed Calgary to win the Stanley Cup. While it is Edmonton’s nightmare that this might be repeated this season, Les MacPherson of the Saskatoon Star Phoenix had an even worse nightmare. He dreamt that Mulroney and the federal government intervened after last year’s Stanley Cup final, to give the cup to Montreal even after Calgary had won the series.” That, of course, was a sly replay of the 1986 decision on the maintenance contract for the CF-18 fighter planes. Then Manning sent a barb to Ottawa over Meech lake: “The genesis, content, and pending collapse of the Meech lake Accord illustrates a lack of constitutional leadership. How ironic that Ottawa, the centre of our national government, will be the last centre in the country, rather than the first, to discover that there is no public support for Meech Lake.” And then he came to the core of his speech, and sounded the themes that would resonate in the hearts and minds of citizens in the four western provinces and beyond.

“Of all the troublesome issues which will face Canada in the next decade, I can think of none which are more in need of a blast of fresh air from the West than the issue of relations between Quebec and the rest of Canada. It is now more than a quarter of a century since the Pearson administration committed Canada to governing itself as an equal partnership between the English and the French. It is now more than twenty years since the Trudeau administration declared the federal government rather than the Quebec government to be the primary guardian and promoter of the French fact in Canada. Based on those commitments and declarations, the Liberals gave us the Official Languages Act of 1982, and the Conservatives (following in the same rut rather than breaking new ground) have given us Bill C-72 and the Meech Lake Constitutional Accord.

“All of these measures have been advocated, promoted, and in some cases imposed upon the Canadian people for the avowed purpose and intention of making Quebec ‘more at home in Confederation,’ reducing the separatist threat, and strengthening Canada’s sense of national unity, identity, and purpose. As the sun rises on the last decade of the twentieth century, it is imperative that Canadians fully assess the results of this course of action in the cold, clear light of a new and coming day.”

For Manning, the current distemper so evident in Canada was the proof that the past assumptions had failed and that a new approach was needed. “Has this approach produced a more united, less divided, Canada? No, it has not. Has this approach produced a more contented Quebec? No, it has not. has this approach reduced the use of Quebec separatism as a threat to wring mor concessions out of the rest of Canada? No, it has not. has this approach engendered in Quebec politicians an emotional as well as an economic commitment to Canada? No, it has not. Has this approach produced in Canadians a new sense of national identity, pride, and purpose sufficient to guide us into the twenty-first century? No, it has not. Instead, what the Pearson-Trudeau-Mulroney approach to constitution development has produced is a house divided against itself. And as a great Reformer once said long ago, ‘a house divided against itself cannot stand.’ “

The audience listened, rapt. This was not the usual inflated droning of convention speeches. This was not the pussyfooting around the question of Quebec that had become the distinctive Canadian way. This was the boy standing up to say the emperor has no clothes. And the Reformers listened to their leader revealing openly, without apology or circumlocution, what had been hidden in the bottom of their hearts.

“Now if this is the unvarnished truth as we see it, then leadership demands that we rise to our feet in the federal political arena, and say at least three things on behalf of western Canadians: First, we do not want to live, nor do we want our children to live, in a house divided against itself, particularly one divided along racial and linguistic lines. Second, we do not want nor do we intend to leave this house ourselves (even though we have spent most of our constitutional lives on the back porch). We will, however, insist that it cease to be divided. Third, either all Canadians, including the people of Quebec, make a clear commitment to Canada as one nation, or Quebec and the rest of Canada should explore whether there exists a better but more separate relationship between the two. In short, we say that living in one Canada united on certain principles, or living with a greater constitutional separation between Quebec and the rest of Canada, is preferable to living in a ‘house divided.’ ”

Manning anticipated that his words would be misunderstood, that the Reformers would be stigmatized as anti-Quebec. On the countrary, he protested, the Reformers were for a united Canada, one in which Quebec could be both prosperous and culturally secure. He recognized that Canada would be diminished without Quebec within the federation. But Manning went on to make Harper’s argument that the current course itslf was bringing the country to a crisis.

“If we continue to make unacceptable constitutional, economic, and linguistic concessions to Quebec at the expense of the rest of Canada, it is those concessions themselves which will tear the country apart and poison French-English relations beyond remedy. If Canada is to be maintained as one undivided house, the government of Canada must ask the peoiple of Quebec to commit to three foundational principles of Confederation:

That the demands and aspirations of all regions of the country are entitled to equal status in constitutional and political negotiations.
That freedom of expression is fully accepted as the basis of any language policy.
That every citizen is entitled to equality of treatment by governments without regard to race, language, or culture.
“If these principles are accepted, our goal of one united Canada is achievable. But if these principles of Confederation are rejected by Quebec, if the house cannot be united on such a basis, then Quebec and the rest of Canada should openly examine the feasibility of establishing a better but more separate relationship between them, on equitable and mutually acceptable terms.”

Manning was introducing implicity the concept which had been put forward explicitly in Harper’s memo: the test of constitutionality. Quebec alone could not unilaterally determine the terms of a possible secession. “From the West’s perspective, such terms will be judged satisfactory if they are fair and advantageous to Canada, if the new relationship with Quebec can be established and maintained without violence, and if the terms are approved by a majority in both Quebec and the rest of Canada.”

It was surely, one of the great political speeches ever given in Canada. The next day, the assembly voted for the Quebec motion, and much of the country was aghast. Manning, when he met reporters, said more clearly than in his speech that it was about time “to call Quebec’s bluff.” And he added: “We think it’s about time sombeody stood up and said ‘no, we’re going to put some demands on you. If you can’t respond to those, then maybe you better think about a separate relationship.’ ”



Manning and the Reform Party had now moved close to Harper’s position on Quebec. Both now recognized that the country was at a crossroads and must choose between incompatible paths leading to quite different values, to a very different national identity.

You see, Stephen Harper knows that there IS a way that a province can separate from the rest of Canada under our current Constitution. In fact, the Supreme Court of Canada confirmed this on August 20, 1998 in their decision on the unilateral secession of Quebec.

I believe that the initial plans to call the Quebec bluff were sped up when the BQ had a similar motion on the table regarding the word nation. This move not only addressed Quebec’s needs, but it also took the wind from Duceppe’s sails and opens up the topic of unity. And from what I have read, Stephen Harper had a plan on unity over a decade ago and this is just a small part of the plan.

From my understanding, our PM means to uphold the letter of the Constitution which means the provinces are indeed their own masters and the Federal government is there to hold them all together and only control those things the Constitution enables the federal government to control.

It’s definately going to be interesting watching this, because I have a feeling we are watching a political chess grandmaster at work.

Stay tuned.

Stay tuned indeed. I hope this is the opening move in some deeper game that Prime Minister Harper can control, rather than him stepping on a banana peel.
 
Iterator said:
Part of the problem for those wanting Nation status (I'm not completely opposed) is that they insist on viewing their proposed Nation (e.g. Quebec) as being on a Nation-to-Nation status with Canada.

This dismisses all other Canadians as being a generic lump of people they term as "Canadians".  If they were able to get around their bigotry and understand that being "Canadian" is the encompassing term for all, then they would probably find a better response.

That is to say: If Quebec wants to be referred to as a Nation then it must refer to the other provinces as Nations. And come to terms with the fact that it changes nothing fundamentally about the structure of Canada.

There can be "layers" to Nationality, but the understanding of this can't be one sided.


Iterator said:
...
But I believe that Canada would be better off if it co-opted the term Nation. By codifying the term Nation so that it doesn't reflect sovereignty, then you allow Canada to be ahead of the separatists.

Define the term Nation and its many meanings, call Quebec a Nation, Newfoundland a Nation, Alberta a Nation, the Haida a Nation, etc, and as long as Canada is the level of Nationhood that has exclusive external authority then the power of the term Nation is lost to those who would wield it against Canada.

If all Canadians were nationally defined only as Canadians, then things would have worked out. But leaving some Canadians defined nationally only as Canadians, while others are not, will lead to problems in the future, no matter how meaningless it appears today.


Hopefully, the way this will play out (after the resolution passes) will be:
- Newfoundland And Labrador will request a similar declaration (who actually have a clearer case than Quebec).
- Followed by Alberta (and possibly Nunavut).
- Followed by the other Provinces and Territories.
- Followed by Canada actually voting to recognize Canadians as a nation.
- Then a final resolution leaving it to the Provinces to further define Nations within their territory.

And then we will return to our regularly scheduled programs, already in progress.


 
        Well, it's official, the Harper conservatives have managed to pass a motion recognizing Quebecois as a nation within Canada. All I can say is this is dumb move! The separatists are going to use this as a platform for another referendum on Quebec becoming a country in itself. I can see it now, Duceppe will argue that Canada has finally seen the light and by recognizing Quebecois as a nation they now must accept Quebec as a nation.
        I guess we are no longer defined as Canadians? We must now all be divided into distinct nations within Canada. What distinct nation within Canada are all of you? Since my family descended from Irish, Scottish, French and Mi'Kmaq I would like to be recognized as the Bigmac nation within Canada! ;)

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/11/22/2446825-cp.html

 
Bigmac said:
        ......... What distinct nation within Canada are all of you? Since my family descended from Irish, Scottish, French and Mi'Kmaq I would like to be recognized as the Bigmac nation within Canada! ;)

Let's see.....we have the First Nations and now the 2nd Nations (Quebecers).......why not have a 3rd Nations - the Bigmac's?  ;D (You may have to change your name though as I am sure Mcdonald's will be in the Courts suing for Copyright infringements.)
 
      There is no copyright infringement. I am a nation they are burgers! Since my nation came first perhaps I should sue Mcdonald's! ;D
 
I recall General John Cabot Trail, leader of the Cape Breton Liberation Army, stating that when the Capers hold a referendum about separation the question shall not be confusing, it will simply be:

"You's comin' or what?"

Down with the Causeway!
 
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