Québec Election: 7 Apr 14

[Humphrey Bogart]

Here is a funny GIF

GTFO Pierre Peladeau LOL

 

[Good2Golf]

If you're talking about the last Québec provincial election, yes. The electorate wanted to get rid of the Liberals because of the corruption, and the ADQ-turned-CAQ was (still is) too far to the right for most Québécois.

Was actually thinking Federal, where the NDP took 59 or 75 federal ridings.  I don't think Quebecers actually thought an elected NDP government would be what they wanted, but the message to the PLC was clear.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Been trying to stay away from this, but some observations come to mind.

What we appear to have here is the fallout of separation and negotiation.

The exact same arguements, slings and arrows, name calling and vindictive that will follow at the national level are in the works here.

Almost like a blueprint.

Stay at it everybody.

All the name calling and recriminations. The discussion points in languages that other sides may not understand, the outlandish accusations of nationalism on the basis of racism.

Maybe, the government of the time, whenever that may be, can cut to the chase, read this thread and solve their problems in one feld swoop.


edit - spelling

 

[Infanteer]

The discussion points in languages that other sides not may understand, the outlandish accusations of nationalism on the basis of racisism.

My point (in French) was kind of hinting at that.  There are French speaking Canadians outside of Quebec and there are many Francophones in Quebec opposed to separation, so this isn't a French-English thing which is why we need to avoid getting throwing the word "they" around.

The other important point from my statement was that out West (remember that economic engine thing?) nobody really cares right now.  It's not news, nor is it alarming as it simply doesn't matter out here.  Folks living east of Thunder Bay see this as life and death but it really is a distant issue out here.  If this event ever did happen, obviously there'd be some choices to make, but Western Canada is not twisting itself into knots because a few loudmouths in another province's politics.  Welcome to the Pacific Century I guess. 

Quebec, and indeed the rest of Canada, needs to consider the PQ like a louder version of these guys - full of sturm and drang but that's about it:

http://www.freealberta.com/links.html

 

[Edward Campbell]

My point (in French) was kind of hinting at that.  There are French speaking Canadians outside of Quebec and there are many Francophones in Quebec opposed to separation, so this isn't a French-English thing which is why we need to avoid getting throwing the word "they" around.

The other important point from my statement was that out West (remember that economic engine thing?) nobody really cares right now.  It's not news, nor is it alarming as it simply doesn't matter out here.  Folks living east of Thunder Bay see this as life and death but it really is a distant issue out here.  If this event ever did happen, obviously there'd be some choices to make, but Western Canada is not twisting itself into knots because a few loudmouths in another province's politics.  Welcome to the Pacific Century I guess. 

Quebec, and indeed the rest of Canada, needs to consider the PQ like a louder version of these guys - full of sturm and drang but that's about it:

http://www.freealberta.com/links.html

300 Milpoints headed your way. I think the "they" comment was, actually, fairly carefully refined to mean only those Quebecers who will vote for separation for all the wrong reasons, but it still isn't helpful, as we saw.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My point (in French) was kind of hinting at that.  There are French speaking Canadians outside of Quebec and there are many Francophones in Quebec opposed to separation, so this isn't a French-English thing which is why we need to avoid getting throwing the word "they" around.

The other important point from my statement was that out West (remember that economic engine thing?) nobody really cares right now.  It's not news, nor is it alarming as it simply doesn't matter out here.  Folks living east of Thunder Bay see this as life and death but it really is a distant issue out here.  If this event ever did happen, obviously there'd be some choices to make, but Western Canada is not twisting itself into knots because a few loudmouths in another province's politics.  Welcome to the Pacific Century I guess. 

Quebec, and indeed the rest of Canada, needs to consider the PQ like a louder version of these guys - full of sturm and drang but that's about it:

http://www.freealberta.com/links.html

I was speaking with my parents today and supposedly there is growing movement in Northern, NB (primarily amongst the Acadien population) who would want to separate from Canada and join Quebec should they choose to separate.  Understandably, I believe this is being driven by the poor economic fortunes of the French population in NB who are largely ignored by the "Golden Triangle" of Moncton, Saint John and Fredericton.  In any event, I tend to agree with you that the PQ like to blow a lot of hot air but that their isn't much behind any of it.  Quebecer's just don't see separation as an important issue right now. 

 

[upandatom]

The ROC is tired of the same ole, same ole.  The ROC will most likely welcome a referendum on separation and gladly bid Quebec "bonne journée" and "Bon voyage".  If Marois gets her majority and passes Bill 14, the only Anglos left in Quebec will be the elderly who do not have the means to leave.  The ethnic cleansing will be a fait accompli. 

Quebec will be a richer province by it, richer than Alberta, after they tap all their oil and natural gas reserves.  The ROC will no longer have a 'spoiled child' whining for handouts and special treatment, and will see benefits in the reductions in administration costs and money transfers.  There would be no real losers in Separation.

I will easily agree on this (we barely do on matters GW) , with the exception that the Province/possible country wont be richer by any means. The higher ups will be rich. IE-Look at Marois holding an election so she can avoid testifying-thats why the election came earlier then expected-

First Nations own majority of the land where the natural resources are sitting, and they have already stated- a referendum is a no go in their lands (the lands make up about 50% of Quebec lands mass, it is quite significant) the last referendum they voted a whopping 96% NO seperation.

In my eyes, let Quebeckistan seperate-
They can take their debt, (which increases by $21 million a day. there is an Iphone App for the debt and how much, how quickly it grows)
Allow the $20 Billion or so a year they take (which is 1/3 of what is allotted to  ALL PROVINCES and Territories) to be kept in in use for the rest of Canada
They will be removed from NATO,
Any and all Free trade agreements with any country that Canada has set up will be null and void for Quebec
Military resources will be pulled from Quebec.
There will be a Mass Exodus of English and French population to NB,ONT, and most likely Alberta. (Last year 29000 Families moved from jan-sep to other provinces) 

From my eyes, its a Bonus, Quebec brings in about 7-8% of Canadian Export, for the amount they take, its a win win.

Who cares, Canada loses the Montreal Port, meh, we can make do, ( regardless  I can see Montreal with its money, and high English, Italian, Irish and Jewish population it will say, umm no we are not seperating, )

There is another solution- The federeal government steps in and says "Smarten the F#$% up"
I dont give a shit if they signed the constitution or not, what has been going on their is disgusting, that province has become an embarassment for the rest of Canada. The corruption and the "Language Gustapo" the harassment of Anglos (even bilingual Canadians) needs to stop.

Lose the baby gloves, treat Quebec like a grown up,

The freedom to speak what language you prefer, wear simple religous and cultural items, is a Canadian right that we stand up for.

YEs my grammar and spelling is horrible today, this issue just pisses me off to no avail. 

I will fully agree the "They" word needs to stop. It isnt a French English thing, this is a power hungry cow thing (just look how how flustered she is with the whole PKP issue), not a language.

 

[Remius]

An onteresting take on the local talk radio show this morning.  One of the pundits basically said that the reason support for sovereignty is so low these days is that Quebecers as a whole have no real beef with the RoC.  Most Quebecers see no reason to start a fight for no reason.

The CPC is more than content to give Quebec more power in its own internal affairs as it lines up with their policies.  Something they are willing to do with all provinces.

Another interesting point was an explanation about PKP that lined up with what Gilles Duceppe was saying this weekend. When it comes to sovereignty there is no left and no right.  It's sovereigntists vs federalists and it may be why they thought bringing in PKP was a good idea given that he is more right than left.  Duceppe explained that in the sovereignty debate, federalists generally unite regardless of their political stripe but that for sovereigntists its somewhat more difficult. 

However, this didn't or hasn't really worked out well.  The PQ has lost the ethnic vote, the union vote, likely the student vote and now it would seem the soft nationalist vote. 

Looking forward to the debate on Thursday.

Pauline Marois will have a hard time re-defining her campaign... 

 

[xo31@711ret]

'I was speaking with my parents today and supposedly there is growing movement in Northern, NB (primarily amongst the Acadien population) who would want to separate from Canada and join Quebec should they choose to separate.'....Sorry Royal, but I gotta disagree. Just a little background - I've been married to an Acadienne now since 1993; we met in Chatham 1991 a few years before it closed. She was a adm clerk, I was a medic after I LOTPed from the First in London Ont. We've been coming to here hometown for leave, holiday's etc since we met in '91. Both my girls always went to a francophone school ( not immersion): Gagetown, Sept-Iles, and here at Ecole Secondaire Nepisguit. When we were posted to NCSM/HMCS JOLLIET on an RSS posting from 06 to 010, I wrongly & stupidly thought I would be in the heart of separatists country, Duplessi region. I was wrong; yes I met a few die-hard separatists but for the most part the majority I met were proudly & firstly Quebecois but also happy to be Canadian...which I personally have no problem with. After we retired in 010, we a built a house here north of Bathurst, in a small Acadian village...I'm bettin' I'm probably one of the few ' Newfie square-heads' here . All my in laws are proudly Acadian. I've only had one problem with an older guy here (won't call him a gentleman) many years ago who dropped by at my father-in-law's camp & proceeded to drink my beer (which I had no problem with). But then he started to put me down because my french was poor & I was a' english newfie' all the while guzzling my beer.  Before I could politely explain to him what he could do with his (ball) cap,  my father-in-law( about 80 at the time) & borther-in-law stood up, said a few things in my defence before they showed him the door. I've been coming here since 1991 & have lived here since 010. Met a lot of great people, been to many functions at the local "Clue d'Or", Remembrance day ceremonies and I have NEVER yet met any here who would be in favour of separating, let alone joining with Quebec. I have personally had (just a couple) Quebecois in Chatham & Gagetown who, after I said my wife was a Francophone, asked me where in Quebec she was from. When I replied "new Brunswick, she's an Acadienne", they actually replied "Oh, t she really isn't french then." To which I replied "Yeah, no, when you meet her, I don't recommend you saying that". She stated that (on rare occasions) early in her career when she was posted at St Hubert when it was the Mobile Command HQ, she was poked fun at by (a very) few because of her 'accent' & use of anglo words. She felt that by these very few individuals, she was considered their country pumpkin cousin....and being a Newfoundlander, I sometimes felt the same by (a very few) idiots when I was posted to Ontario. Probably why I feel a kinship to Acadians - down to earth folks with their own unique culture, dialect & not full of s**t ....for me, in my uneducated opinion, the feds see Canada ending just west of Edmunston NB. For our provincial politicians in power here, New Brunswick ends just north of Moncton & Fredericton. Pro Patria & Militi Seccurimus

 

[Journeyman]

They can take their debt, (which increases by $21 million a day. there is an Iphone App for the debt and how much, how quickly it grows)
Allow the $20 Billion or so a year they take (which is 1/3 of what is allotted to  ALL PROVINCES and Territories) to be kept in in use for the rest of Canada
They will be removed from NATO,
Any and all Free trade agreements with any country that Canada has set up will be null and void for Quebec
Military resources will be pulled from Quebec.

And here I thought that there'd be complex negotiations and Constitutional issues; looks like it's a done deal.  :

 

[George Wallace]

An onteresting take on the local talk radio show this morning.  One of the pundits basically said that the reason support for sovereignty is so low these days is that Quebecers as a whole have no real beef with the RoC.  Most Quebecers see no reason to start a fight for no reason.

And the ROC have no real beef with Quebecers.  It is the Sovereignists that garner the wrath of non-sovereignists across the nation. 

Looking forward to the debate on Thursday.

Pauline Marois will have a hard time re-defining her campaign...

Has she changed her mind on the English debates?

 

[upandatom]

And here I thought that there'd be complex negotiations and Constitutional issues; looks like it's a done deal.  :

Scotland tried a referendum (or their version) several years ago, In international law (I am definetly no lawyer by any means, this all was read from various news articles and editorials), and the same basic concept was that they lose all of that (NATO, trade agreements you name it). Im sure it is a shit tonne more complex, but you would think that it would be a precedent that it would be an idea of how it would work.

 

[George Wallace]

........... I have personally had (just a couple) Quebecois in Chatham & Gagetown who, after I said my wife was a Francophone, asked me where in Quebec she was from. When I replied "new Brunswick, she's an Acadienne", they actually replied "Oh, t she really isn't french then." To which I replied "Yeah, no, when you meet her, I don't recommend you saying that". She stated that (on rare occasions) early in her career when she was posted at St Hubert when it was the Mobile Command HQ, she was poked fun at by (a very) few because of her 'accent' & use of anglo words. ........

LOL in a sad kind of way.  It might be of interest to point out that when those very same people visit France, the 'real' French are quite often to treat them in the same manner. 

 

[ModlrMike]

The CPC is more than content to give Quebec more power in its own internal affairs as it lines up with their policies.  Something they are willing to do with all provinces.

Which Quebec sees as part of the problem. How dare they not be treated as special!


"All animals are equal; some are more equal than others" - Orwell

 

[Remius]

And the ROC have no real beef with Quebecers.  It is the Sovereignists that garner the wrath of non-sovereignists across the nation. 

Has she changed her mind on the English debates?

Not that I've heard of.  I'm pretty sure though, that for her, the English vote is a write off anyway. Plus she has a really hard time communicating in English and I doubt she'll want to make things worse than they already are.

 

[Remius]

LOL in a sad kind of way.  It might be of interest to point out that when those very same people visit France, the 'real' French are quite often to treat them in the same manner.

This being one of the reasons francos outside Quebec generally don't identify as Quebecers or have any real willingness to support soverigntists.

A Franco-Ontarian with his specific accent and words is more likely to be treated as a minority in that province.  This happens a lot.  Not so much in the border area of Ontario/Quebec, but when you start going deeper it is somewhat surprising that a lot of people don't even think that francos exist outside Quebec.

As to the Acadian seperatists...lol.  Most of what Royaldrew posted should be taken as rumour and gossip from a friend of a friend.  There is no real seperatist movement there except for a few loud mouths.  The last time something like that happened was durng the height of the PQ in the 70s with the Parti Acadien.  I don't think they were able to even get a seat in the Legislature.  Being an officially billingual province and allowing french schools pretty much appeased whatever bad blood might have existed. 

When I was in high school, there was a girl who would spew out that Franco Ontarians should seperate.  Lol.  She got a lot of WTF looks from everyone.

 

[George Wallace]

When I was in high school, there was a girl who would spew out that Franco Ontarians should seperate.  Lol.  She got a lot of WTF looks from everyone.

I imagine if you were to look her up again, she has not changed her stripes.  :-\

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

'I was speaking with my parents today and supposedly there is growing movement in Northern, NB (primarily amongst the Acadien population) who would want to separate from Canada and join Quebec should they choose to separate.'....Sorry Royal, but I gotta disagree. Just a little background - I've been married to an Acadienne now since 1993; we met in Chatham 1991 a few years before it closed. She was a adm clerk, I was a medic after I LOTPed from the First in London Ont. We've been coming to here hometown for leave, holiday's etc since we met in '91. Both my girls always went to a francophone school ( not immersion): Gagetown, Sept-Iles, and here at Ecole Secondaire Nepisguit. When we were posted to NCSM/HMCS JOLLIET on an RSS posting from 06 to 010, I wrongly & stupidly thought I would be in the heart of separatists country, Duplessi region. I was wrong; yes I met a few die-hard separatists but for the most part the majority I met were proudly & firstly Quebecois but also happy to be Canadian...which I personally have no problem with. After we retired in 010, we a built a house here north of Bathurst, in a small Acadian village...I'm bettin' I'm probably one of the few ' Newfie square-heads' here . All my in laws are proudly Acadian. I've only had one problem with an older guy here (won't call him a gentleman) many years ago who dropped by at my father-in-law's camp & proceeded to drink my beer (which I had no problem with). But then he started to put me down because my french was poor & I was a' english newfie' all the while guzzling my beer.  Before I could politely explain to him what he could do with his (ball) cap,  my father-in-law( about 80 at the time) & borther-in-law stood up, said a few things in my defence before they showed him the door. I've been coming here since 1991 & have lived here since 010. Met a lot of great people, been to many functions at the local "Clue d'Or", Remembrance day ceremonies and I have NEVER yet met any here who would be in favour of separating, let alone joining with Quebec. I have personally had (just a couple) Quebecois in Chatham & Gagetown who, after I said my wife was a Francophone, asked me where in Quebec she was from. When I replied "new Brunswick, she's an Acadienne", they actually replied "Oh, t she really isn't french then." To which I replied "Yeah, no, when you meet her, I don't recommend you saying that". She stated that (on rare occasions) early in her career when she was posted at St Hubert when it was the Mobile Command HQ, she was poked fun at by (a very) few because of her 'accent' & use of anglo words. She felt that by these very few individuals, she was considered their country pumpkin cousin....and being a Newfoundlander, I sometimes felt the same by (a very few) idiots when I was posted to Ontario. Probably why I feel a kinship to Acadians - down to earth folks with their own unique culture, dialect & not full of s**t ....for me, in my uneducated opinion, the feds see Canada ending just west of Edmunston NB. For our provincial politicians in power here, New Brunswick ends just north of Moncton & Fredericton. Pro Patria & Militi Seccurimus

There's No Shore like the North Shore and that's for sure!  I am from Bathurst and lived there my whole life, both my parents still live there.  I can tell you that THERE IS underlying animosity between the Northern half of the province (predominantly French) and the Southern half of the province (predominantly English).  My father and mother are both quite well connected in the community as well and they spoke to me on the phone about this as well. 

the feds see Canada ending just west of Edmunston NB. For our provincial politicians in power here, New Brunswick ends just north of Moncton & Fredericton.

  I agree with you on these two points but to clarify my point on NB potentially splitting I would say it would only be contemplated if Quebec did separate as the Canada as we know it would no longer need to be a bilingual country; therefore, the province of NB would no longer need to be a bilingual province.  Les Acadiennes and Quebecois may not get along but if the Acadiennes felt isolated before Quebec separation they will feel far worse afterwards.  I would think they would throw their lot in with Quebec in that case as I doubt English NB would want to maintain the province's bilingual status as their would be little reason to do so.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

As to the Acadian seperatists...lol.  Most of what Royaldrew posted should be taken as rumour and gossip from a friend of a friend.  There is no real seperatist movement there except for a few loud mouths.  The last time something like that happened was durng the height of the PQ in the 70s with the Parti Acadien.  I don't think they were able to even get a seat in the Legislature.  Being an officially billingual province and allowing french schools pretty much appeased whatever bad blood might have existed. 

You talk like you know the in's and out's of NB politics but are you even from there?  Ever heard of the NB CORE Party, at one point in the 90's they were the official opposition party in NB.  Guess what one of their party platforms was?  Getting rid of bilingualism in the province.

NB may have official bilingualism but the economics and politics of the province are completely screwed up.  Development and investment basically ends at the Miramichi River Valley and the province may let Acadiennes practice French in school but you just need to drive in the back woods of Northern, NB along the "Peninsule Acadienne" and look at some of the people living in shanty houses on social assistance to realize equal opportunity doesn't necessarily mean equal. 

 

[Remius]

  I agree with you on these two points but to clarify my point on NB potentially splitting I would say it would only be contemplated if Quebec did separate as the Canada as we know it would no longer need to be a bilingual country; therefore, the province of NB would no longer need to be a bilingual province.  Les Acadiennes and Quebecois may not get along but if the Acadiennes felt isolated before Quebec separation they will feel far worse afterwards.  I would think they would throw their lot in with Quebec in that case as I doubt English NB would want to maintain the province's bilingual status as their would be little reason to do so.

I think I disagree with that assessment.  I'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong but consider the origin and nature of billingualism in New Brunswick (which predates 1982 by almost 12 years).  In reality it has nothing to do with Quebec.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that NB would only mainatin it's Billingual status even if Canada decided to drop it.  No other province is billingual anyways so i doubt that there would be a big change.  Only at the federal level.  Some provinces might still continue their policies or regional billingualism like Ontario and maybe Manitoba (which would likely have reduced services but still a regional form of official billingualism).

Francophones outside Quebec are already isolated from Quebec and were fighting for language rights for decades.  And these rights were mostly fought for at the provincial and municipal levels particularly for education and services.  As I've mentioned before, Quebecers (francos at any rate) are very uninformed or care little for francos that are not Quebecers.  While there have been some agreements and some financial and political support it is few and far between.

In fact, Francos outside of Quebec have formed formal and informal alliances to promote the French language and French language rights within their own communities.