Québec Election: 7 Apr 14

[Edward Campbell]

The key issue, I think, is a PQ majority. If that happens it will have two consequences:

    1. The Quebec economy will continue to founder and drift along in the wrong direction, doing real, measurable, economic damage to every Canadian resident, including those reading Army.ca; and

    2. It will reignite a wasteful, counter-productive national unity debate ~ a false debate because Canada, with Quebec, is not, in any meaningful way, except geographic, united even now.

In an article in the national Post, the Canadian Press' Jennifer Ditchburn recycles some ideas re: Cui bono? Who wins, from amongst the federal leaders?

She attempts to be "fair and balanced" in laying out diverse opinions, but, in the end, concludes nothing.

A PQ majority says to me:

Elizabeth May      - zero impact, she is totally irrelevant to any discussion of any topic;
Justin Trudeau    - negative, he is a Francephone Quebecer, many, many Canadians, including certified Harper Haters will mistrust him;
Thomas Mulcair  - negative, he leads a Quebec based party with some nationalists, Canadians will mistrust them and him;
Stephen Harper  - slight positive, he is weak in Quebec but can be trusted to be strong for the West and even for Ontario.

 

[devil39]

There is, apparently, according to the Globe and Mail's Capital Markets reporter and Streetwise columnist Boyd Erman, a case for monetary union, at least from Ontario's perspective. But that case is that Ontario is flailing about (and failing?), due, in some part, to changing global markets and, in more cases, to inept Ontario Government policies, and it 'needs' Quebec, which flails about even more and fails (without the need for a question mark), to counter the increased productivity of the evil West.

ARTICLE LINK

Mr Erman's argument is, in my opinion, complete rubbish on both economic and political grounds.

Ontario doesn't 'need' Quebec to help it balance the West; it (and Quebec) needs new, better economic policies. The solutions to most of Ontario's problems lie in Queens Park, not with the Bank of Canada or with the federal cabinet.

Quebec is a badly mismanaged entity. The so called "Quebec model," an imitation of the failed "French model," has failed. It is a statist, soft-socialist model that cannot work because they, statism and socialism, require consistently competent political leaders, which cannot exist in a democracy, and perfect humans (especially smart and industrious people who are, consistently, willing to work at full capacity for nothing more than the pleasure one derives from giving away the fruits of one's labours to feed, house and entertain the stupid and lazy) and they don't exist, either. It would be policy madness to allow mismanaged Quebec, with an economy equal to about 20% of Canada's, into a currency union ~ it is the equivalent of France, Italy or Spain in the Eurozone: none of those three are qialified, by the rules, to be there but because they all lie about their economies, as a matter of national policy, they are able to live off the fruits of the labours of the Dutch, Finns and Germans, while adding no value to the mix.

Any prime minister of the new Canada minus who proposed allowing the newly independent Quebec a seat on the BoC's board would be tarred and feathered and run out of the capital on a rail.

It's all nonsense.

I couldn't agree more wth the above.

It is so ludicrous that I wonder if they are not trying to inflame the opinions of thinking RoC's, with a view to goading us into saying nasty things, which will only serve to sway opinion of the undecided in Quebec. 

 

[George Wallace]

Why would anyone even contemplate allowing the newly independent Quebec a seat on the BoC's board? 

That is contrary to the idea of 'separation/secession'.

 

[Remius]

I suspect that the Marois and like minded seperatists envision something akin to the EU. Shared currency but with a fundamental difference that the EU is lacking and that is a central banking agency.

I am anti seperation and a staunch federalist but, I could envision free trade, open borders, reciprocal treaties and MOUs on a variety of issues including and not limited to defence, trade etc etc.  These things are in our (the ROC) best interest.  I also envision Canada maintaining its responsabilities to ALL Canadian citizens (until such time as it may or may not be redefined).

I expect that negociations would be done in good faith.

However, it must be made clear, prior to any referendum and after, that Canada's economic policy is its own.  Canadians will demand that Quebec not be part of any decisions or BofC etc etc that impact our fiscal policy.  Quebec needs to undertsand that by going its own way that it forfeits the benefits of being in the federation but can still enjoy the benefits of being a close neighbour, perhaps even a preferential one.  Once independance is achieved Canada will decide what is good for Canada and that our internal issues are own own and that Quebec's vacated seat will be replaced with a fern or other potted plant. 

Joint currency and joint economic policy is not a good idea.  They are free to use ours, but we must resist, much like the Brits did, to adopt any kind of new unified monetary system where Quebec would have a voice.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I don't approve of people defacing election posters, etc, but even I have to admit that this shows considerable imagination:

 

[vonGarvin]

Let them go.  And good riddance.  They can create their own currency, their own economy, and then realise in a generation or so that the Quebecois is a dead nation.  Let them rot, I say.

Yes, I'm a federalist, but if someone wants to walk, I say let them go.  But no "sovereignty assocation" or any other such nonsense.

 

[Lightguns]

+1

Better to end in terror than terror without end.

 

[Zulopol]

I dont know why a lot of ``Quebecois`` want to make them own counrty... -_- I am a proud Canadian living in Quebec. I speak french and I love that our country is bilingual   

 

[Edward Campbell]

Most Quebecers, Francos, Anglos, Allophones and whatevers, are pretty normal humans, each pretty much like the other. But a few are fruitcakes, and few of them are sick, anti-Semitic fruitcakes and some (many? most?) of those migrate towards the PQ because they think (just hope?) it shares their views ...

Like the person mentioned in this report from CJAD Radio.

The PQ does itself no favour by allowing this sort of trailer trash to represent it at the polls.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Let them go.  And good riddance.  They can create their own currency, their own economy, and then realise in a generation or so that the Quebecois is a dead nation.  Let them rot, I say.

Yes, I'm a federalist, but if someone wants to walk, I say let them go.  But no "sovereignty assocation" or any other such nonsense.

THEY?????    Nice one you racist [use your imagination here].  This from the guy who whines at anything that touches the RC church.......


Just out of curiosity, what about those families who have lived there for generations and don't want to "go"?

 

[Jungle]

THEY?????    Nice one you racist [use your imagination here].  This from the guy who whines at anything that touches the RC church.......

Just out of curiosity, what about those families who have lived there for generations and don't want to "go"?

:goodpost:

 

[Edward Campbell]

Notwithstanding the Technoviking's choice of words, we have, with he and Crantor, what I see as the two faces of Canada vs Quebec: downright hostility and a willingness to negotiate ... for our benefit. What I don't see is the kind of goodwill which was there in, say, 1995.

And that seems, to me, to confirm e.g. Ibbitson's assessment ... we no longer care as much.

 

[George Wallace]

Bruce and Jungle

As this is a discussion on the possible outcomes of a Québec Election and monitoring of the lead up to it, you will naturally get the views from the ROC on the matter.  The ROC is basically of the opinion that the whole Quebec separation BS that has been going on for the past few decades has worn thin.  The ROC is tired of the whining of a certain Political Party.  If you two can't accept it, then you are the ones with the problem.  Calling anyone a racist because they are tired of the demands on the ROC by a certain Political Party, does you no credit.

As this is a discussion, as new facts are presented, views will change.  Your hurt feelings due to the "generalizations" in reference to the ruling Political Party in the province as meaning all Quebecers should require you both to lodge your complaints on a DA FORM IMT WF1 document enclosed and then circular filed:  DA FORM IMT WF1

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yes George, you are so right.  I mean yes, how could anyone with actual ties to Quebec like Jungle and myself ever have doubted your wisdom??

...and how petty of either of us to take offence at being called "they".  I'm so ashamed...............

 

[Lightguns]

Ahh racism chants have started early.  Shall we have a round of Godwin's Law?  Nationalistic parties have always appealed to the evil straw man fear in their fellow nationals.  It is the only real cause they have to separate their block from the mainstream. 

 

[sandyson]

I have two concerns. My first is physical geographical.  Atlantic Canada would be physically separated from the rest of the country. There does not appear to me any practical way to link it through a separated Quebec. (Maine is already a considerable obstacle.) I see no region that would be sympathetic to Canada, through which a corridor could be reserved.
My second is perceptive geography.  The physical nature of the continent promotes North-South communications.  In spite of this, the country was built East to West. Quebec separation will reinforce the North-South axis and perception.  I fear the remaining provinces will be ripe-for-the-picking by the US, especially Atlantic Canada.
Ironic: Quebec would eventually disappear.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Well that is another discussion entirely,........what land goes, and stays, with whom?
You know, the kind of decisions that reverberate for generations.

 

[Lightguns]

Quebec as it was in 1867, nothing more.  Unless parts of that want to be Canadian. 

The Atlantic question is interesting given that the Quebec Patriotic Militia now has an "Acadian component" in Tracadie, NB.  Will the Acadians take their que from the Quebec and throw off the hated chains of English oppression? >  Will Franco-Ontarians march on Ottawa and liberate it? 

The fact is the fall out from separation will be long and likely bloody at some point.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I know I'm repeating myself, but ...

    1. I don;t think there will be a referendum; but

    2. Even if there is one I expect the "Non!" side, the federalist side, to win again.

I the highly unlikely event that Quebec does have a referendum and does vote "Oui" then we will negotiate, in good faith.

But the new Quebec state will be saddled with several unhappy regions; separatism will be a real, big, often violent crisis for the new country.

There is a useful table of Quebec's regions in Wikipedia. Here is the map from that article:

My guess is that Region 10 will rise up quickly in a (sometimes) violent separatist movement which will succeed because Quebec will be unable to counter it on either a military or political level.

I also suspect that Region 7, the Outaouais/Pontiac region, will also be heavily and sometimes violently separatist. Ditto of parts of Regions 5, 6 and 16.

My guess is that the "good faith negotiations" will produce a free trade and "free passage" agreement, think something like the Schengen Agreement in Europe, which will make Canadian intercourse between Atlantic Canada and Upper Canada easy, but the "perceptive geography" problem will be very, very real.

 

[Journeyman]

      anic:


I truly don't know how some of you sleep at night.  :not-again: