Put Leopards in Afghanistan stuff HERE
- Thread starter hammond
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IIRC the C6 were brought in at the same time or shortly after the Leo purchase.
The Cougar, Grizzley, Lynx, M113 used the C5 GPig. M113 .50cal primarily used though.
The Cougar and Griz were updated to the C6 in the mid 90s when the turrets were upgraded.
The Leos always had the C6 since I got in back in 88.
Regards
The Cougar, Grizzley, Lynx, M113 used the C5 GPig. M113 .50cal primarily used though.
The Cougar and Griz were updated to the C6 in the mid 90s when the turrets were upgraded.
The Leos always had the C6 since I got in back in 88.
Regards
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The C6 came to the infantry circa 1986 (Reg Force) and a few years later to the militia (as of 1989, it hadn't reached The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment)
The C6 made its first appearance in the Canadian Army with the Leopard C1 circa 1978.
The C6 made its first appearance in the Canadian Army with the Leopard C1 circa 1978.
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Hale said:
hehe., I think you mean "The Shizznit" ;D
Being an amateur photographer., this thread is VERY pleasing to the senses :king:
Lance Wiebe
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The answer is simple enough. The Germans would not sell any license to build the MG3 or any parts. The Belgians would, and seeing as how we were already buying the SABCA IFCS from the Belgians, buying the FN MAG made a lot of sense. We had a license existing with FN at the time as well, modifying an existing contract is easier than starting from scratch.
I don't believe that the Germans have ever licensed production of the MG3. I may be wrong, but....
Of course, US Army trials on MG's rated the FN MAG as the best medium MG in the world, which, I would imagine, made the decision making even easier.
I don't believe that the Germans have ever licensed production of the MG3. I may be wrong, but....
Of course, US Army trials on MG's rated the FN MAG as the best medium MG in the world, which, I would imagine, made the decision making even easier.
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Roger. Thanks for that. Its just a question i've been wondering about, especially after seeing our Leopards bombing around the range and having the good luck of seeing the "buzzsaw" sending what looked like beautiful laser bolts down range. Cheers fellar's.
The circa 1977 rentatanks had the MG3. The Leopard C1 had the C6. The Infantry got the C6 some years later from money that was saved on the CF-18 Hornet/NFA Project.
Cool, eh?
We did not produce under license the C6 or C9 in Canada, as the quantities were too small.
Cool, eh?
We did not produce under license the C6 or C9 in Canada, as the quantities were too small.
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I thought the C9s were produced here, or, at least, made FOR Canada, if nothing else, given that stupid magazine feed. (Yes, I know, it allows for magazine fed round in the event of you're out of belts of ammo, but with that feed, the C9 will not fit in the SF kit, which the Minimi is designed to do, but the C9 can not)TCBF said:
Lance Wiebe
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Tom's right, we never produced the C6 or C9 here, but we do (or did) produce some of the bits and pieces that go with it. With the MG3, every single thing would have to be produced in Germany.
I'm kind of glad we went with the MAG58, it is a superb gun!
I'm kind of glad we went with the MAG58, it is a superb gun!
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I can remember recieving the C-6's when i was at the Infantry school in Gagetown in 86, a most welcome replacement for the old cumbersum worn out GPMG and you didn't have to stop and head space and time the C-6 after putting a couple of belts through it.
The candidates and instructors on the advanced MG courses at the school where stunned at the C-6 ease of use , something that the old GPMG was not known for and on the tripod the C-6 is deadly accurate. No more jamming!! At least not many... just alternate your barrels to avoid burning them out and you can fire all day long.
The old GPMG was after all WWII vintage, it had worked well as a .30 caliber, but when it was remachined to take the NATO 7.62 it never did perform as well.
The candidates and instructors on the advanced MG courses at the school where stunned at the C-6 ease of use , something that the old GPMG was not known for and on the tripod the C-6 is deadly accurate. No more jamming!! At least not many... just alternate your barrels to avoid burning them out and you can fire all day long.
The old GPMG was after all WWII vintage, it had worked well as a .30 caliber, but when it was remachined to take the NATO 7.62 it never did perform as well.
A
aesop081
Guest
Top : C1
Bottom : C5 GPMG
2 seconds and google........its amazing
Bottom : C5 GPMG
2 seconds and google........its amazing
I think those photo's are for the wrong weapons, there was a C1 GPMG and then a C5
IIRC
The C5 GPMG had a better cam for the belt feed pawl, the breech face was modified, and a few other minor changes, and gauges for timing and headspace were issued, all of which cut down on the number of stoppages.
Still it doesn't come close to the reliability of the C6
IIRC
The C5 GPMG had a better cam for the belt feed pawl, the breech face was modified, and a few other minor changes, and gauges for timing and headspace were issued, all of which cut down on the number of stoppages.
Still it doesn't come close to the reliability of the C6
"2 seconds and google........its amazing "
-heh-heh-heh...
Watch this:
1. Rifle, 7.62mm, FN C1A1
2. Sub-Machine Gun, 9mm, C1
3. Machine Gun, 7.62mm, C1
4. Mask, Protective, C1
etc.
Not to mention Sniper Rifle, 7.62mm, C3 and Flare, Parachute, Hand-Fired, C3.
Knife, Clasp, C5 and MG 7.62mm, C5.
LAR 7.62mm FN C2A1 and Decontaminating apparatus C2A1, Detector Kit, C2A1and Protractor, Rectangular, 6 inch plastic, C2.
-heh-heh-heh...
Watch this:
1. Rifle, 7.62mm, FN C1A1
2. Sub-Machine Gun, 9mm, C1
3. Machine Gun, 7.62mm, C1
4. Mask, Protective, C1
etc.
Not to mention Sniper Rifle, 7.62mm, C3 and Flare, Parachute, Hand-Fired, C3.
Knife, Clasp, C5 and MG 7.62mm, C5.
LAR 7.62mm FN C2A1 and Decontaminating apparatus C2A1, Detector Kit, C2A1and Protractor, Rectangular, 6 inch plastic, C2.
Lance Wiebe
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Not to mention:
Leopard tank C1; and
Leopard tank C2!
Leopard tank C1; and
Leopard tank C2!
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Been a while, so some of the latest, shared with the usual disclaimer....
Brutal summer heat may force Canadian army to park its tanks in Afghanistan
John Cotter, Canadian Press, 3 Apr 07
Article link
Canada may park its force of 17 Leopard tanks in Afghanistan this summer to avoid losing any crew members to the brutal heat. By August the temperature inside the 42-tonne steel monsters, which aren't air-conditioned, could climb as high as 65 degrees Celsius, Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie said Tuesday. "We don't have a solution that is outside the scope of a newer, more modern machine," said Leslie, commander of the Army branch of the Canadian Forces. "We will have to restrict their operations because we are not going to lose soldiers because they overheat." Asked if the tanks may not be used at all during the summer, Leslie said it is an option the army will consider based on the temperature. Leslie has told Canadian troops in Afghanistan that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make a decision later this month on the future of the 30-year-old Leopard 2 tanks, which were designed to fight on European battlefields. The military began sending the tanks to Afghanistan last fall to give added punch to Canada's battle group in Kandahar. Most of the Leopards have been operating as part of a 250-soldier task force in the Maywand district in support of Operation Achilles, NATO's offensive to drive the Taliban out of the northern part of Helmand province ....
CP exclusive: Canada to lease new tanks for Afghanistan
Murray Brewster, Canadian Press, 3 Apr 07
Article link
A federal cabinet committee has given the green light to the lease of 20 state-of-the-art tanks to replace aging armoured vehicles in Afghanistan, The Canadian Press has learned.
The cabinet priorities and planning committee approved the lease of the German-built Leopard A6M tanks last week, said a Defence Department source, who asked not to be named.
The recommendation, which is unlikely to be overturned, is now on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's desk for final approval.
The news Tuesday came as Gen. Andrew Leslie, the country's top army officer, said he might have to consider pulling existing tanks - which don't have air conditioning - out of service in Afghanistan this summer because of the heat.
He also told troops in Kandahar to expect a decision from the prime minister on the new tanks within a week.
The new tanks have air conditioning, as well as improved protection against road-side bombs and suicide vehicles, both of which have been packing progressively bigger punches lately.
The army has a handful of older Leopard tanks, which are currently doing duty in western Kandahar as part of NATO's Operation Achilles.
The deal, which apparently includes access to ample spare parts, also gives Canada the option to purchase an unspecified number of additional tanks at a later date.
Reports last winter suggested that in addition to a lease, the army wanted to purchase 80 new Leopards, but the source said that number is likely to be scaled back.
Harper wouldn't bite on questions about the future of the vehicles.
"Cabinet has been discussing the tank issue and we'll have an announcement on that shortly," he said in Kitchener, Ont.
Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor, in Montreal for a speech, said he wasn't aware the issue was resolved.
A Defence Department spokesman didn't deny that a lease arrangement has been struck.
"We are exploring a number of options to address an operational requirement," said Lt. Adam Thomson. "However, we have nothing to announce at this moment."
The defence source could not say how much the arrangement was worth, but brand new Leopard tanks cost roughly US $6 million each.
Currently, the army has 17 of its old 45-tonne tanks patrolling the desert and dirt roadways of rural Kandahar. The biggest drawback to the vehicles is their lack of air conditioning in a climate where daytime summer temperatures soar above 50C.
Defence Department researchers have looked at installing air conditioners in the vehicles but that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per vehicle.
Another idea proposes to give tank crew cooling vests - the same kind used by professional race car drivers - but they would be cumbersome when layered along with existing body armour.
Aside from the comfort factor, the lease of new tanks is seen as a more cost-effective solution, said the defence source.
Alex Morrison of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies said buying new equipment is better than retrofitting.
"It just makes more sense," he said. "This is a decision that's been in the mill for at least the last seven months."
New Democrat defence critic Dawn Black said she's not opposed to the lease arrangement, but only because it means tank crews won't have to roast.
"I think it was irresponsible to deploy them, knowing they weren't suitable for the climate," she said.
In February, a policy think-tank produced a report that criticized Canada's deployment of tanks to Afghanistan, saying the 1970s vintage Leopard-C2 vehicles were vulnerable to insurgent attacks.
Researcher Michael Wallace, of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, argued that new Leopard A6Ms would also be vulnerable to road-side bombs and rocket-propelled grenades. He said the introduction of tanks had the potential to spark an "arms race" with insurgents, prompting the Taliban to build bigger bombs.
Morrison dismissed the arguments, calling them ridiculous.
"What would they have us do?" he asked. "Take the tanks home and then the insurgents won't use whatever weapon they have? What will happen in the end is the insurgents would control the whole country."
Brutal summer heat may force Canadian army to park its tanks in Afghanistan
John Cotter, Canadian Press, 3 Apr 07
Article link
Canada may park its force of 17 Leopard tanks in Afghanistan this summer to avoid losing any crew members to the brutal heat. By August the temperature inside the 42-tonne steel monsters, which aren't air-conditioned, could climb as high as 65 degrees Celsius, Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie said Tuesday. "We don't have a solution that is outside the scope of a newer, more modern machine," said Leslie, commander of the Army branch of the Canadian Forces. "We will have to restrict their operations because we are not going to lose soldiers because they overheat." Asked if the tanks may not be used at all during the summer, Leslie said it is an option the army will consider based on the temperature. Leslie has told Canadian troops in Afghanistan that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make a decision later this month on the future of the 30-year-old Leopard 2 tanks, which were designed to fight on European battlefields. The military began sending the tanks to Afghanistan last fall to give added punch to Canada's battle group in Kandahar. Most of the Leopards have been operating as part of a 250-soldier task force in the Maywand district in support of Operation Achilles, NATO's offensive to drive the Taliban out of the northern part of Helmand province ....
CP exclusive: Canada to lease new tanks for Afghanistan
Murray Brewster, Canadian Press, 3 Apr 07
Article link
A federal cabinet committee has given the green light to the lease of 20 state-of-the-art tanks to replace aging armoured vehicles in Afghanistan, The Canadian Press has learned.
The cabinet priorities and planning committee approved the lease of the German-built Leopard A6M tanks last week, said a Defence Department source, who asked not to be named.
The recommendation, which is unlikely to be overturned, is now on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's desk for final approval.
The news Tuesday came as Gen. Andrew Leslie, the country's top army officer, said he might have to consider pulling existing tanks - which don't have air conditioning - out of service in Afghanistan this summer because of the heat.
He also told troops in Kandahar to expect a decision from the prime minister on the new tanks within a week.
The new tanks have air conditioning, as well as improved protection against road-side bombs and suicide vehicles, both of which have been packing progressively bigger punches lately.
The army has a handful of older Leopard tanks, which are currently doing duty in western Kandahar as part of NATO's Operation Achilles.
The deal, which apparently includes access to ample spare parts, also gives Canada the option to purchase an unspecified number of additional tanks at a later date.
Reports last winter suggested that in addition to a lease, the army wanted to purchase 80 new Leopards, but the source said that number is likely to be scaled back.
Harper wouldn't bite on questions about the future of the vehicles.
"Cabinet has been discussing the tank issue and we'll have an announcement on that shortly," he said in Kitchener, Ont.
Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor, in Montreal for a speech, said he wasn't aware the issue was resolved.
A Defence Department spokesman didn't deny that a lease arrangement has been struck.
"We are exploring a number of options to address an operational requirement," said Lt. Adam Thomson. "However, we have nothing to announce at this moment."
The defence source could not say how much the arrangement was worth, but brand new Leopard tanks cost roughly US $6 million each.
Currently, the army has 17 of its old 45-tonne tanks patrolling the desert and dirt roadways of rural Kandahar. The biggest drawback to the vehicles is their lack of air conditioning in a climate where daytime summer temperatures soar above 50C.
Defence Department researchers have looked at installing air conditioners in the vehicles but that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per vehicle.
Another idea proposes to give tank crew cooling vests - the same kind used by professional race car drivers - but they would be cumbersome when layered along with existing body armour.
Aside from the comfort factor, the lease of new tanks is seen as a more cost-effective solution, said the defence source.
Alex Morrison of the Canadian Institute of Strategic Studies said buying new equipment is better than retrofitting.
"It just makes more sense," he said. "This is a decision that's been in the mill for at least the last seven months."
New Democrat defence critic Dawn Black said she's not opposed to the lease arrangement, but only because it means tank crews won't have to roast.
"I think it was irresponsible to deploy them, knowing they weren't suitable for the climate," she said.
In February, a policy think-tank produced a report that criticized Canada's deployment of tanks to Afghanistan, saying the 1970s vintage Leopard-C2 vehicles were vulnerable to insurgent attacks.
Researcher Michael Wallace, of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, argued that new Leopard A6Ms would also be vulnerable to road-side bombs and rocket-propelled grenades. He said the introduction of tanks had the potential to spark an "arms race" with insurgents, prompting the Taliban to build bigger bombs.
Morrison dismissed the arguments, calling them ridiculous.
"What would they have us do?" he asked. "Take the tanks home and then the insurgents won't use whatever weapon they have? What will happen in the end is the insurgents would control the whole country."
