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Pte. Robert Costall killed in Afghanistan firefight 29 Mar 2006

In CTV's story tonight they mentioned how an American pilot dropped a bomb on Canadian troops in Afghanistan "accidentally".

I thought the problem with that, was that he dropped the bomb "deliberately".... ::)
 
Costall killed instantly in Afghan firefight: CTV
CTV.ca News Staff

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060404/friendly_fire_060404

Pte. Robert Costall took a direct hit to the head and was killed instantly during a firefight in Afghanistan last week, CTV News has learned from an eyewitness.

Meanwhile, military investigators are probing whether friendly fire played a role in the deaths of 22-year-old Costall, a machine gunner born in Thunder Bay, Ont., and Sgt. 1st Class John Stone, 52, a medic with the Vermont National Guard.

Five other soldiers were wounded -- including three Canadians -- and at least eight Afghan National Army soldiers died in the battle northwest of Kandahar.

Four of the five wounded soldiers have now returned to duty.

It's yet unclear whether possible friendly fire refers to Costall's death or to one of the other casualties.

The suggestion that friendly fire may have played a role in the deaths was raised following a preliminary review of the battle, but senior commanders refused to say on what evidence the notion was based.

"They'd come under a fairly heavy rain of fire from what appeared to be a coordinated attack involving mortars, RPGs, which are shoulder launched grenades, machine guns and small arms fire.," said Maj. Bill Fletcher, Costall's commanding officer.

A statement released by Canada's National Defence did not reveal what prompted the friendly fire suspicions, but acknowledged military operations in Afghanistan are "complex."

"Terrain, weather and threat levels combine to create an extremely challenging operating environment," the statement released at Kandahar Airfield read.

"The fact the incident occurred at night, with attacks from multiple directions, just adds to the complexity."

Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, commander of Task Force Afghanistan, said investigators had ruled out the possibility that soldiers died from fire coming from above, such as from the coalition aircraft that helped repel the Taliban attack.

"The possibility of friendly fire, I say the possibility, did not come from the air. It was not about bombs," he told reporters Tuesday.

"So we are now investigating where this possible friendly fire came from, but it was not from an aircraft of any type."

Costall and his wounded comrades were hurrying to reinforce one corner of the outpost when they came under ground fire outside the protection of the main area, said a coalition military source.

Costall's remains were flown to Vancouver on Tuesday.



On the trip from the airport to the ferry terminal, the fallen soldier's motorcade was honoured by saluting Mounties.



His final resting place will be at his boyhood home in Gibsons, on British Columbia's Sunshine Coast.


No confusion, commander insists

Meanwhile, a top American commander told The Canadian Press Tuesday that there was no confusion in the fatal firefight.

"I never use the word 'confused,'" said Brig.-Gen Anthony Tata when asked whether the tumult of last week's battle led to the soldiers' deaths.

"It was a tactical fight, led by the commander on the ground, that had the appropriate coalition forces to defend his base," said Tata, who is deputy joint commander for southern and eastern Afghanistan.

"The enemy attacked from multiple directions. We beat back the enemy, pursued the enemy and then killed the enemy," he said.

But retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie told CTV's Canada AM he believes friendly fire was "certainly explainable" in the context of a complex overnight battle.

"If I had to describe a more confusing situation, I probably couldn't do it," he said.

"A fight at night, out in a forward operating base, with relatively modest defence shell scrapes and holes in the ground. Fire is criss-crossing the position and unfortunately people are going to get hit."

McKenzie said people should remember that whatever the outcome of the friendly fire investigation, Canadian, U.S. and Afghan troops did repel the Taliban and caused significant enemy casualties.

"In my estimation, it's a combat casualty -- full stop."

The battle began last Tuesday in the Sangin district of Helmand province, about 110 km northwest of Kandahar.

Taliban insurgents attacked an Afghan army resupply convoy near a remote, desolate base -- described as no more than a sun-baked patch of land ringed with sand berms and razor wire.

A quick-reaction force of Canadians was called out as reinforcements and coalition commanders unleashed a torrent of air strikes, including British Harrier fighter bombers, American Apache helicopter gunships and B-52 bombers.

After a battle fought well into Wednesday morning, coalition troops hung on to the base, reportedly killing at least 30 Taliban insurgents.

'Unlike' friendly fire of 2002

Scott Taylor, editor of Esprit de Corps magazine, described the battle as "a very confusing situation."

Appearing on AM, Taylor said the incident was "unlike" the friendly fire tragedy of April 2002, when four Canadian soldiers were killed after an American fighter jet mistakenly bombed their position during a training exercise near Kandahar.

"The fight was in progress when the Canadians came in. They went in there as a rapid reaction force, it was nighttime," Taylor said.

"Unlike the April 2002 bombing, where combat was not taking place and it was a gross negligence on the part of a pilot."

Canadian, American and Afghan investigations will produce separate reports. There is no indication of how long the investigation will take, but it could take weeks or even months.

"The initial findings justify the requirement for further investigation to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding the firefight, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from friendly fire," the National Defence statement added.

A total of 11 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have died in Afghanistan since 2002.

Canadian troops have further reinforced the base in Helmand, which is a lawless, narcotics-infested area west of Kandahar.

With a report from CTV's Ellen Pinchuk

 
recceguy said:
They're all a bunch of worthless hacks. Monkeys with typewriters.
"It was the best of times...it was the blurst of times?!?!?!?!  Stupid monkey!!!!"
 
I know a BOI is standard when ever we loose someone, no matter the circumstances. I'm just wondering if releasing the fact that an "investigation" into whether it was fratricide or not does anyone any good? No problems with us finding out, anything we can do to improve how we do things to make us a more effective fighting force is kosher, but......This certainly will not do the families any good or the guys on the ground.

And come on, let's face it, "they" all ready have the rounds. It doesn't take somebody from CSI Las Vegas to figure out if they came from NATO 5.56/7.62 or from an AK-variant. News report said that it was the Afghan Army that started it.....can't find it now to quote though. I find that fact interesting. Sorry, misread. It said "After reviewing initial reports of enemy contact the Combined Forces Command – Afghanistan commander determined that an investigation was warranted." I just saw the Afghanistan commander part. My eyes/brain can't follow a sentence to the next line.

They should let our brothers rest and let those still on the ground get on with the job at hand instead of having this hang over them. I also agree with Lew. (and Journeyman, of course).
 
Wookilar said:
I know a BOI is standard when ever we loose someone, no matter the circumstances. I'm just wondering if releasing the fact that an "investigation" into whether it was fratricide or not does anyone any good? No problems with us finding out, anything we can do to improve how we do things to make us a more effective fighting force is kosher, but......This certainly will not do the families any good or the guys on the ground.

And come on, let's face it, "they" all ready have the rounds. It doesn't take somebody from CSI Las Vegas to figure out if they came from NATO 5.56/7.62 or from an AK-variant. News report said that it was the Afghan Army that started it.....can't find it now to quote though. I find that fact interesting.

They should let our brothers rest and let those still on the ground get on with the job at hand instead of having this hang over them. I also agree with Lew. (and Journeyman, of course).

So if this was a case of guys running around willy nilly shooting into each other's positions, etc., you don't think that's something that needs to be examined and rectified? Would you want to go out tomorrow with the same bunch of guys with this "hanging over them"?

Obviously this kind of thing will be unavoidable in some circumstances; if that's the case here, sum up and move on, but its not to any of us to suggest whether it is or isn't. Let the guys over there do their job, including fixing their own mistakes if any have been made. And yes, I think it does merit wide communication if it will increase confidence among the troops that the risk of similar instances reoccuring will be minimized. I suspect those guys have enough to worry about without adding fear of a bullet to the back of the head to the list... ;)
 
Don't get me wrong, it should be found out. Just like I said "anything we can do to improve how we do things to make us a more effective fighting force is kosher." That is what a BOI is for. It was already stood up and running. What I don't like is an investigation, done by people that were not on the ground, and, once it is done will not be on the ground. Unfortunately, it will be just like the investigators that took 3 weeks to decide if one of our guys followed his ROE's in firing rounds defending himself and his Pl. They weren't there when it happened, and they weren't there when they finalized their report. They filed it from Canada. SOP for "investigations."

Making the investigation public will put it into the realm of media circus. We've seen it happen before, it will happen again. A lot of pain and suffering for the friends and families involved. The Canadian Press has already contacted Rob's Mom for a comment!!!! He just got home, for f****-sakes!

And just to set a few things straight, those are my guys, my battalion over there. Don't let my current profile fool you too much. I'd step off with them anyday.
 
Wookilar: the days of hiding this kind of stuff are over. We had to learn the very painful and difficult way, over several years, that the embarassment and pain of telling the truth (i.e: " we are doing an investigation because we have reasonable grounds, etc") is way better than trying to hide anything. We all know that in today's military, the lifespan of a "secret" is usually measured in days if not hours, and the risk would be great that some distorted, partially correct (or wholly wrong) version would slip into the hands of the media, putting us back on the defensive again. So far, the CF is "striking first" on just about everything.

Is there still a feeding frenzy by some media? Yes,  but that's normal. IMHO it is nothing compared to what we would face if the media had dug this up against the will of the CF. I believe that this will hurt, but we will tough it out in the end.

Cheers
 
pbi, you are right, of course. Still a little sensitive about this (ninerdomestic is now previewing any and all potential rants).

I guess what really bothers me (aside from some of the media types that have no respect. Some do, too many do not) is the way it is being handled by our people. I read another report on CBC.ca where one of the investigators (a Maj) was quoted:

Friendly fire probe heats up
Last Updated Sat, 08 Apr 2006 18:51:09 EDT
CBC News

"But              said investigators were "nowhere near determining" whether they were dealing with a criminal act, an act of negligence, or a horrible accident."

Doesn't say combat in there anywhere. If that is the stance the NIS is taking (and I realize that it may have been taken out of context), well,......... it just makes it....harder to take, I guess. We all know friendly fire happens in battle. It should always remain unacceptable and we should strive to make it disappear, but it is a reality of current war fighting (especially close-quarters at night). To even suggest that it was a "criminal act" or "an act of negligence" just doesn't seem right. (I have more to add, but I am being told "no")
 
Wookilar said:
And come on, let's face it, "they" all ready have the rounds. It doesn't take somebody from CSI Las Vegas to figure out if they came from NATO 5.56/7.62 or from an AK-variant.

I think we should all shut our pie holes about the 'what ifs' and so on, as this man, was only laid to rest a few days ago.

As for CSI crap etc (its a battlefield, not a safeway parking lot), are you telling us that the bad guys are NOT using 5.45 x39mm along with anything else, yes including the generic 7.62mm M43 cartridge, either way a head wound is a nasty thing, and from a high powered rifle fired possibly through a kevlar helmet, well, thats like seeing a shotgun blast on a outdoor suicide, and trying to figure out if it was 12ga or 20ga.

Trying to figure out 5.56 from 5.45 and 7.62NATO from 7.62M43 is like trying to pick out fly shyte from pepper.

At the end of the day this bloke had more guts than you or I and was killed on the battlefield.  I think it in very bad taste trying to discect what happened as armchair CSIs. We were not there for the aftermath or the trauma his mates are experiencing still.

Rest in peace Digger, your job is nobally done!



Regards,

Wes
 
Thank you Mr. Allan
I personally am damn tired of the media and others trying to dig for answers. My boy and a lot of others I know are over there and as I stated before this young man died so others could have peace. Now whether is was Taliban or one of ours is cross fire, those guys were in a shit storm in the dark, he fought hard and bravely and is a hero in our( military families) eyes. Let him and his poor family restin peace. :salute:
 
Something constructive from the media for a change, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409)

http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=15&cat=23&id=625182&more=

Soldier's aunt plans for baby's future
By Darshan LINDSAY, Kamloops This Week, 9 Apr 06

''Collin Costall was a Valentine's Day gift for parents Robert and Chrissy Costall, born Feb. 14, 2005.  Now, the boy is without his father, a young Canadian soldier killed during a Taliban attack in Afghanistan on March 28 - and a relative in Kamloops is making sure the baby has what he needs for a better future.

Patti Montpetit, aunt to Robert Costall, has established a trust fund in Collin's name.  She said the baby is the glue keeping the family together during this difficult time.

"When you're feeling sad, there's nothing like holding a sweet baby to pick up your spirits. He's a very cheerful baby. He looks just like his dad," said Montpetit.

(...)

Since establishing the trust fund more than a week ago, $1,000 has already been raised.  She said the money will go toward Collin's future, "to give him a leg up for things he'll need that his father won't be able to help him with" - like funds for college.

For anyone wishing to contribute, a cheque made out to Collin Costall can be mailed to Patti Montpetit, 251 Tranquille Rd., Kamloops, B.C., V2B 3G2. The cheque will be placed in a trust fund at Edward Jones Investment.

Donations can also be made through Interior Savings Credit Union account number 8285025.
''
 
As sad as this is I think it acts as a reminder (to myself) at the very least to max out on life insurance and disability prior to going and possibly even before that.
 
CFL said:
As sad as this is I think it acts as a reminder (to myself) at the very least to max out on life insurance and disability prior to going and possibly even before that.

Do you know any Insurance Companies besides SISIP, that provide you the Insurance Coverage you want, and do not have a WAR CLAUSE?  I know the Insurance Companies will love to have your business, but they won't pay out if you are maimed or killed in a War Zone, Military Incursion or any violent act of a similar nature.
 
CFL said:
As sad as this is I think it acts as a reminder (to myself) at the very least to max out on life insurance and disability prior to going and possibly even before that.

I think it's a better reminder to max out on life - period. We all die. Make the most of your time here!
 
George, had a SISIP brief last week, and your question was asked, there is no insurance companies with a war clause besides SISIP.. at least thats the direction we were given.
 
MikeM

I think you got that backwards.  Most Companies have a clause the voids your insurance, if you are involved in an Act of War, an Act of Terrorism, or a similar Act of violence.  On the other hand, SISIP will cover you as a CF Member under those conditions.  That is why if you have any Insurance other than SISIP, check the fine print for what it has to say in its' "War Clause" and see if they can void your Insurance due to any acts of violence, in or around a War Zone, Terrorist Attack, or similar Activity.
 
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