PSAC Strike Actions and Some Reactions- Merged Thread

[Armymedic]

The PSAC mbrs (one of who is my wife) have been more accommodating with the traffic situation here in Pet. After the last strike 4+ yrs ago where they almost completely blocked one of the two main accesses to the base and got nothing but bitterness and threats. IMHO, they now know to get our cooperation and support, they can't delay us more then by a few mins. A traffic jam up 5 kms of Petawawa Boul is a dangerous thing. OPP don't look kindly upon it either.

And the thought of "we get what they get", I don't buy either. I know how much my wife gets paid, and what her increases are....Currently we are doing much better, and I can't see us getting 2.5-3% increases that they will be getting.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

PSAC recommends workers reject latest offer
CTV.ca News Staff

A strike by 90,000 federal public servants will be suspended for at least six weeks to allow a vote on the government's latest offer -- but the union is telling workers to reject the deal.

If it is rejected, that means workers will be hitting the picket lines again by Christmas.

About 125,000 government employees went on strike on Tuesday. The workers, part of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, were in a legal strike position as of midnight Monday.

Officials from PSAC and the government have been trying to negotiate deals for all the groups under the union's umbrella. Those talks have resulted in deals for at least three groups so far, but tens of thousands of workers are still without a tentative contract.

The latest government offer was deemed unacceptable by PSAC, because the union says it would strip workers of benefits agreed to in previous negotiations.

However, PSAC will still be asking members to vote. Union president Nycole Turmel said the vote on the latest offer will be conducted by mail.

"We must make sure our members receive the packages (containing ballots), can vote and have the time to vote ... it (will) take a minimum of six weeks, it could take eight or 10 weeks," Turmel told a news conference in Ottawa.

"We have members who are working on vessels with the Coast Guard so they have to have the time to come back and have time to vote."

Turmel had earlier predicted more deals, and sounded optimistic Thursday, specifically about the Table 1 group. That group is the largest body under the PSAC umbrella, and represents about 80,000 clerical and bureaucratic staff.

Almost 10,000 grain inspectors and technical workers also remain without an agreement. Turmel said the government was insisting on clawbacks on benefits, while refusing to recognize other issues, like seasonal workers.

Federal negotiators have already reached tentative agreements with:

25,000 Revenue Agency workers, who got a 10 per cent pay hike compounded over four years
10,000 employees under the Operational Services Group, who include electricians, plumbers, carpenters, labourers and cleaners. About half of them are employed by the Defence Department.
5,000 Parks Canada workers
At Pearson airport on Friday, striking federal workers have set up picket lines outside Toronto's Pearson Airport.

Officials at Pearson Airport have set up a Public Information Line at 416-776-5772 that says "there is virtually no impact on airport operations" because of the pickets.

With files from The Canadian Press

 

[Spartan]

I'm just curious with this question: on the military side of the government house, how is it ANY cheaper to contract out versus having those jobs offered as military careers?

 

[sheikyerbouti]

If the forces has an issue with strength does it not make sense that the effect is mitigated by utilizing employees that would not detract from the service strength.

Face it, we don't need janitors that can fire a rifle if all they are needed for is mopping the floor.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

I have no issues with the picketers demonstrating as long as they follow the rules.At my base they have agreed to stop vehicles 30 seconds apiece to demonstrate their point and at a small base, that is not a great issue, however a few weeks ago the spouse of a soldier was trying to access the base to pick up her husband and was verbally assaulted by picketers who thought she was a scab.Although for the most part the demonstrators are being somewhat reasonable, there are those out there that feel a strike gives them the right to become anarchists that no longer fall under the canadian legal system.As for these folks, I wholeheartidly agree with the use of lethal force to save the world from one more a**hole.

 

[Acorn]

I've heard that they will pause in the strike in order to vote on the offer, but the union will apparently recommend that they vote against it.

So far I haven't had any problems with the picket lines, however I'm not sure how I would react if I had to deal with a rude or offensive picketter. If I wasn't in a hurry my response to a request for ID (if I was in uniform) would be to request the ID of the individual asking, and explaining that they have no standing to demand my ID.

There should be a point where the Army says enough is enough. If strikers get to be a problem, become consistently rude, and make a habit of demanding ID from uniformed CF members, I'm sure most bases could rustle up a platoon of infantry or two to clear the gates (good ACP practice).

Acorn

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaait a minute, here. As some of you know[right Lance?] I have been supportive of the measures used by the strikers and put the blame on the base chain-of-command.[ref court order]
However, demanding to see your ID?   Let me be blunt, #$%+& *&$%$ #$%*    Having been through two of these things and kind of being  one of the head poop disturbers in the last one, NEVER would I have demanded someone show me thier ID.  Going to far is going too far!   .....thats not how you conduct these things, IMHO.

 

[marshall sl]

So you would use the army to stop people from excersing their right to strike eh? I thought you were there to protect these citizens and their way of life.   They have every right to do what they are doing.

Deploying soldiers against our own citizens sounds kind of like Nazi germany to me. People like you scare me.


.

 

[Bartok5]

Marshall,

You have manifestly missed the point.   The Army has no desire to stop PSAC members of the "Defence Team" from exercising their democratic right to strike.   What those of us in uniform have an interest in doing is our inimpeded duty - whether that be arriving at work on time to perform our instructional training roles, or participating in our mandated physical training.   When the PSAC employees whom we normally work alongside in perfect harmony adopt a stance of labour dispute such that their demonstration of displeasure with the Federal Government precludes those of us in uniform from performing our jobs?   Well, then we have a serious disconnect within the so-called "Defence Team".   To whit, everything is fine and dandy when the PSAC workers are mollified.   However the minute that DND PSAC employees have a labour grievance, the only people who physically suffer are the uniformed members of the purported "Defence Team".   I get really irate when I cannot perform the instructional role that I am paid to fulfill because our civilian "enablers" are on strike.   The fact that I have spent no less than 6 hours idling in my vehicle in traffic jams which have shut down a municipality over the past week is simply icing on the cake.   Who is reimbursing me for my wasted gas (at $.95 per litre), the wear on my truck's clutch, or my inflated blood-pressure?   Who is reimbursing DND for the full work-day and lost productivity that I (and everyone else in uniform serving at CFB Gagetown) has lost due to the strike?

Sorry, but you get zero sympathy from me.   No one is suggesting deploying soldiers to force DND PSAC employees back to work in downtown Ottawa at the barrel of a rifle. What we are (and rightfully so) saying is that PSAC stirkers have zero legal right to illegally obstruct civilian roads and access to Federal facilities.   And yet, that is precisely what is happening right now with the non-confrontational acquiesence of the RCMP and Military Police.   Well, screw that.   PSAC strikers can picquet all they want.   But the minute that they adversely affect the ability of military personnel to access their place of work, the strikers have stepped over the line.   Not only have they manifestly betrayed the "defence team" that they rather one-sidedly purport to belong to, they are also fundamentally compromising the delivery of military training and services.   The self-interested nature of the former is rather eye-opening.   The latter is manifestly unacceptable.  

As regards the compromise of military training?   There is no excuse.   The PSAC arse-clowns who fail to realize the impact of their actions need to be shut-down in no uncertain terms.   And THAT is where the lexan shields and billy-clubs most definitely come into play.   I am all in favour of exercising CCO TTPs with uniformed soldiers to form corridors for the unimpeded access of uniformed personnel.   Get in the way with the purported intent of demonstrating your union dissatisfaction with those of us who serve?   Fine - go home with a big frigging (and well-deserved) billy-club lump on your evidently thick noggin.   What part of "don't dick around with the rest of us" don't you understand?....

Call me a "Nazi" all you like.   Canadian citizens pay their taxes.   Those taxes pay my wage.   I take that wage in the expectation that I will perform my duty regardless of obstacles.   PSAC strikers are currently an obstacle.   I have a job to do, and if they are in the way for reasons that have nothing to do with my delivery of value for taxpayer dollar?   Then they are and impediment that I will go over or go around.   Truth be known however, I'd much prefer to "go through"

As a final point Marshall, it is people like YOU who scare me.   People who are willing to abrogate what is right in favour of the "socialist collective".   Let me just ask what YOU have PERSONALLY done for Canada lately.   Please tell us where and when YOU have personally put it on the line?   I await your response......

 

[Jungle]

Relax, nobody said we should shoot them. They simply should not be permitted to interfere with military ops, that's all. You see, like another member on this site, I work in the training system. Everyday they strike, I have to come in a couple of evenings or a weekend day to make up for the losses, because end-of-course dates can't change (flight bookings etc...).
So without deploying the Military, the Police should be on site to ensure Military pers have free access to Military installations.
Oh, and one more thing: people like you (comparing Canada and nazi Germany) piss me off !!! And I have every right to say this...
EDIT: I guess Mark C posted while I was still typing... You beat me to it !!!

 

[patt]

here in borden when the strike first started the main gate was being re paved so everyone had to go to the south gate, the strykers did a 15min walk and 5mins of letting them through i found it too be little to no time for my bus and the military people to get on base. ive talked to several people who live off base and had to wait 2 hours just to get to work, i think that was way overboard, if people want to strike like that they should head down to ottawa and stop our liberal friends from entering there job and see how much that like it

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote from Jungle,
So without deploying the Military, the Police should be on site to ensure Military pers have free access to Military installations.

You are right, so where are they?, I KNOW the Govt. of Ont. had them out last public service strike here.
Again I would state that the higher-ups in your C of C don't give a rats something about you waiting in traffic.
They are exercising a democratic right but your higher-ups are not exercising thiers?....so's who's to blame?

 

[Jungle]

The C of C certainly is to blame for even negociating with union reps. But I believe Commanders are afraid of the media going crazy because the Military "did not respect citizen's rights".
And with people like this marshall accusing us of being like Nazis, my theory is not too far from reality... 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

In full accordance with the "nazi" thing. When I hear people toss this word around I cringe, what I wouldn't give for the power to send them "there" for about a day. Alas....
Just one point on-topic, it would have nothing to do with the "commanders", once the court-order is issued it becomes a civilian police problem.
No need to get the military's hands dirty. Right marshal?

 

[marshall sl]

I put my *** on the line every day in a Federal Maximum Security Prison and have for 22 years. I have been assaulted, been the target of an attempted hostage taking but managed to escape.I also have fired shots in the line of duty to protect staff during a major riot. I was affected by the same striking PSAC members as you were. I also served in our Canadian Forces , probably while you were still in grade school.

You don't find the idea of our soldiers being deployed against law abiding citizens repugnant? That realy worries me. It is the police's job not yours until they have lost control and have to call you in. If the strikers were destroying property or injuring people then heavy handed methods of crowd control are justified.

We live in a free society, the right to strike is one of those freedoms, Wake up and have a look at the real world.

 

[Infanteer]

You don't find the idea of our soldiers being deployed against law abiding citizens repugnant?

Do you find the idea our national security being put at risk for the sake of a labour dispute repugnant?

Since you missed the point the first time, we aren't debating the right to strike; we are arguing against the actions of strikers which disrupts military training and hinders military personnel (through "ID checks").

I could give a fat rats-ass about about 2.5% wage increases - we are at war right now (unless you missed it) and we can't afford to be dilly-dallying around the entrances to our bases and training areas.

 

[marshall sl]

"There should be a point where the Army says enough is enough. If strikers get to be a problem, become consistently rude, and make a habit of demanding ID from uniformed CF members, I'm sure most bases could rustle up a platoon of infantry or two to clear the gates (good ACP practice)"

This is the comment that prompted me to reply,and If you don't find it disturbing then you belong to a differant army than I did.

Oh and when did we declare war and with who?
I'm quite aware of the world situation but the last time I looked we were not in a declared war. By the way I still have very close friends in the army, I am the grandson of a WW1&WW2 Vet and the son of a WW2 vet , I am not anti military.  

 

[Infanteer]

Like I said before, if Crowd Control is required to allow soldiers access to their training facilities, then so be it.  We've been constantly deployed for the last 10 years, and we can't afford to sacrifice our training for the sake of a labour dispute.

Your heritage is all very nice and all, but don't go insulting the integrity of those who have put just as much service to their country as you with flippant remarks like "Nazi".

As for the war, let me refresh your memory for you:

 

[Acorn]

"There should be a point where the Army says enough is enough. If strikers get to be a problem, become consistently rude, and make a habit of demanding ID from uniformed CF members, I'm sure most bases could rustle up a platoon of infantry or two to clear the gates (good ACP practice)"

This is the comment that prompted me to reply,and If you don't find it disturbing then you belong to a differant army than I did.

Oh and when did we declare war and with who?
I'm quite aware of the world situation but the last time I looked we were not in a declared war. By the way I still have very close friends in the army, I am the grandson of a WW1&WW2 Vet and the son of a WW2 vet , I am not anti military.  

That was my unattributed comment, and I stand by it. What you fail to comprehend is that I'm not advocating some 1919 Army strike-breaking action (not Nazi, by the way, it was Canadian. Only dickheads use "Nazi" as a knee-jerk - are you a dickhead?).

What I said, quite clearly, is that when the strikers step over the line their "right to strike" becomes something else, and if it requires a platoon of Patricias to ensure that servicemembers are able to do their duties unimpeded, so be it.

The "right to strike" does NOT entitle them to block passage to the bases. They are NOT entitled to ask for ID. And finally, unless they are looking for a good thumping, they are most emphatically NOT entitled to be disrespectful or rude to me or any of my fellow soldiers.

So far I have not encountered any disrespectful strikers, and I have always made a point of being polite to them myself. If THEY step out of line things will be different.

Acorn

 

[rw4th]

Since this thread has already gone on a few tangents, I will throw in with an opinion.

I think some people have a misguided view of just what rights striking workers have. Yes, workers have the right to strike (if the strike is deemed legal) but they do not, however, have the right to commit crimes while striking. These crimes include property damage, the obstruction of traffic, and preventing lawful workers from getting to work.

The problem, in my opinion, is that unions have grown out of control. Striking workers who damage property and commit crimes should be arrested and charged for their crimes. In practice, this never happens.

Decades ago, before the governments had strict employment condition laws, union served an important function; they prevented employers from abusing employees. Now however they are a tool used by often already over compensated workers to hold their employers hostage.

This is a bit of a rant, but the bottom line is that I think the government needs to get a backbone and start standing up to unions. Let workers strike, but arrest the ones who break the law by doing things like obstructing traffic, and preventing soldiers from getting onto bases.

My view will probably be unpopular, but it my $0.02 CND