Politics in 2016

[Brasidas]

You are probably right.  And will likely shorten the life of her government in consequence.

Anyone remember ralphbucks before an election?

 

[Rocky Mountains]

As if no one could have predicted that selling off an important asset like this (to anyone, never mind selling it to the Saudis) would result in revenue loss. Trudeau is FAR from perfect, and I'm no Liberal supporter, but our last government was painfully short-sighted. Or, more likely, they didn't actually have Canadian interests at heart. I'm willing to bet that a close examination of this deal would reveal some very shady crap. There is simply NO way it could ever be justified, not ideologically and not fiscally.

The Canadian Wheat Board was a Bolshevik joke that in no way operated in the interest of grain farmers.  It was started during WWII to make sure farmers weren't paid too much money for their grain and for some reason wasn't ended like all other war measures.  The Wheat Board played a marketing game every year by withholding enough grain from export to ensure there was a local surplus to keep the price of grain depressed for the benefit of livestock feeders.

If farmers decided they didn't like getting paid half what they could get across the border, the Liberal government sent them to jail.  Interesting how our economic criminals were not bankers or corporate executives but dirt farmers.  One thing that could never be explained was how if the Wheat Board was such a good idea, why did it only apply to the three prairie provinces?  You do notice the total lack of orange and red squares on the electoral map of farm country on the prairies.  I think we just had a referendum on the Wheat Board last fall.

 

[Bearpaw]

The Canadian Wheat Board was established in 1935 in response to a demand by farmers and the provincial governments of the prairie provinces to counter-act the Nash combine of the wheat pools.  The Nash Combine was investigated by the US government in the 1930's resulting in some serious convictions.  Aspects of the competition act were suspended for the creation of the CWB.

My father presented a brief on some of these aspects to a Royal Commision in the 1960's.

Bearpaw

 

[QV]

Funny thing.  Revenues come from places with money.  Places with no money don't generate revenues.

Quebec is set to receive 10 billion in equalization this coming year, Ontario is set to receive 2 billion.
Alberta's economy is terrible yet Alberta will get zero equalization this coming year. 

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp#Alberta

Energy East is frought with opposition due in part to environmental issues raised by critics while tons of raw sewage is dumped into waterways by those same critics. BC Premier Christi Clark is suggesting building a power grid to Alberta to sell energy to Albertans but Alberta can't get pipelines to the west coast to get Alberta's oil to markets.  It's easy to see how Albertans could feel mistreated by the rest of Canada. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

Apparently the wheat board restoration thing is being pushed by "more than 50 farmers".  Wow.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

The Canadian Wheat Board was established in 1935 in response to a demand by farmers and the provincial governments of the prairie provinces to counter-act the Nash combine of the wheat pools.  The Nash Combine was investigated by the US government in the 1930's resulting in some serious convictions.  Aspects of the competition act were suspended for the creation of the CWB.

Membership was made compulsory for Western Canadian farmers in 1943 via the War Measures Act.

I don't think anyone cares whether or not there is a wheat board.  I think what drove people nuts was that at some points a farmer could get twice as much delivering to a US elevator as little as a few miles away but would go to jail if he did.  If it was such a good idea, why was it compulsory?  The reason for big price discrepancy was that sales were pooled for a crop year with every sale getting the same price.  While considered fair by wheat board supporters, it was grossly unfair to farmers who had the ability and inclination to time the marketing of their own grain.

 

[Kirkhill]

Quebec is set to receive 10 billion in equalization this coming year, Ontario is set to receive 2 billion.
Alberta's economy is terrible yet Alberta will get zero equalization this coming year. 

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp#Alberta

Energy East is frought with opposition due in part to environmental issues raised by critics while tons of raw sewage is dumped into waterways by those same critics. BC Premier Christi Clark is suggesting building a power grid to Alberta to sell energy to Albertans but Alberta can't get pipelines to the west coast to get Alberta's oil to markets.  It's easy to see how Albertans could feel mistreated by the rest of Canada.

QV

I get the emotion and I share it but we need to be careful not to create enemies out of friends just because some folks with inflated opinions of themselves purport to speak for others.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/121712/post-1418157.html#msg1418157

The West has friends in Quebec and the Maritimes.  Many of them have been working in the patch.

The spivs in suits playing identity politics should be ignored as indicators of ground truths.  Unfortunately the same bunch are the ones making the decisions.

 

[Kilo_302]

Apparently the wheat board restoration thing is being pushed by "more than 50 farmers".  Wow.

Right so it's preferable in your mind to have a foreign government own Canadian food supply chain assets? Or are you just reflexively supporting something "because Harper did it?" I thought Conservatives were supposed to be "for the farmers." What an ideologically bankrupt fraud Harper foisted on Conservative Canadians, and they bought it.

Considering how the government just decided to sell the CWB off, well below market prices, without any consultation with Canadians or Canadian farmers suggests to me this deal was rotten from the get go.

The Liberals should reverse the decision, on basis of the fact that it will bring Canada more revenue, and restore a crucial facet of Canadian sovereignty, ie controlling the means of our own food production. Bolshevism indeed  :

http://www.producer.com/2016/02/producer-meeting-calls-for-cwb-return/

A group of producers hopes to reverse a decision made nearly five years ago: the termination of the Canadian Wheat Board’s monopoly on wheat and export barley sales.

A former CWB director and other board supporters met Feb. 10 in Swan River, Man., where more than 50 producers called on the federal government to re-establish the CWB single desk.

“The fact a farm meeting of this size could unanimously pass this resolution is a strong indication to Ottawa that farmers are now feeling the loss of the CWB in their pocketbooks,” said Kyle Korneychuk, who farms near Pelly, Sask., and is the spokesperson for the Canadian Wheat Board Alliance.

In a release, the CWBA said the Conservative government’s decision to eliminate the single desk has cost prairie producers billions in lost revenue, based on a study by University of Saskatchewan agricultural economist Richard Gray.

Ken Sigurdson, a Swan River producer, said when the CWB was in place producers captured 90 percent of the port price.

“Now without the single-desk farmers are only receiving between 40-60 percent of the port price for their wheat.”

Breaking it down to a region, farmers in Manitoba’s Swan River Valley lost $70 million in the last two years, Sigurdson said.

The decades-long controversy over the CWB and single desk selling came to an end last year, when the federal government finalized the sale of CWB assets.

G3, a company owned by Bunge and Saudi Arabian investors, acquired a 50.1 percent stake in the CWB for $250 million. The remaining 49.9 percent is held in trust for western Canadian farmers who do business with G3. Producers are allocated five dollars in equity in the trust for every tonne of grain delivered.

 

[ModlrMike]

Farmers should be able to sell their grain to whomever they want without the fear of going to jail. That's called a free market, something the CWB never was.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

It doesn't matter if Saudi Arabians have anything to do with the wheat board.  If they have something profitable to offer, farmers will deal with them, if not they won't.  How hard is that?  Most of the farmers I know deal with a newer grain co-op, not the old de-cooped Wheat Pools.  If the co-op makes money trading grain, the farmers make the profit.  If someone has a better deal, they would go for the better deal.  If you look at an electoral map of the prairies, every single farm constituency voted Conservative.  In the rest of Canada most of the farm constituencies voted Conservative.  I think a clear message has been sent - keep the Bolsheviks away from the farms.

 

[Kirkhill]

Lighten up on the Bolsheviks Rocky Mountain.

Kilo is running in good company with the likes of the well known British moderate, Jeremy Corbyn.

Kilo, there is a reason the Dutch went into Banking and Tulips rather than worrying about trying to grow their own bread.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Kilo is running in good company with the likes of the well known British moderate, Jeremy Corbyn.

Moderate Jeremy Corbyn?  Are there 2 Jeremy Corbyns?

 

[jollyjacktar]

Moderate Jeremy Corbyn?  Are there 2 Jeremy Corbyns?

ROTFL.  Touche.

 

[Kilo_302]

Lighten up on the Bolsheviks Rocky Mountain.

Kilo is running in good company with the likes of the well known British moderate, Jeremy Corbyn.

Kilo, there is a reason the Dutch went into Banking and Tulips rather than worrying about trying to grow their own bread.

So believing that Canada should control its own food production means I am a Bolshevist.

You and Rocky Mountain have cited "free markets" in this discussion. Perhaps you can explain how it's better for a Saudi government owned "company" to essentially control Canadian grain production than it is for our own farmers, or even our own government. Are you so against Canadian nationalization that you would prefer a foreign government to own the CWB? You really are an ideological contortionist.

You're both really out to lunch here. If you believe that Harper's government had any fealty to "free markets" or any ideology beyond self-interest, you've been had. This deal made exactly zero sense when it was made, from a fiscal point of view (we have lost billions on it), from an ideological point of view (a foreign government owning the CWB isn't exactly "free market") nor from a farmer's point of view ( they are getting less money for their product).

 

[Kilo_302]

ROTFL.  Touche.

Excellent contributions all around  :.  If I'm a Bolshevist, there are definitely a few Fascists running around here.

 

[a_majoor]

To be correctly political, a government mandated wheat pool is a feature of the Fascist Corporate State. FDR and the New Dealers were quite enamoured of the Fascists and many New Deal initiatives, including NRA industrial cartels were explicitly modelled on Italian Fascist practices.

You're welcome.

 

[Kirkhill]

So believing that Canada should control its own food production means I am a Bolshevist.

You and Rocky Mountain have cited "free markets" in this discussion. Perhaps you can explain how it's better for a Saudi government owned "company" to essentially control Canadian grain production than it is for our own farmers, or even our own government. Are you so against Canadian nationalization that you would prefer a foreign government to own the CWB? You really are an ideological contortionist.

You're both really out to lunch here. If you believe that Harper's government had any fealty to "free markets" or any ideology beyond self-interest, you've been had. This deal made exactly zero sense when it was made, from a fiscal point of view (we have lost billions on it), from an ideological point of view (a foreign government owning the CWB isn't exactly "free market") nor from a farmer's point of view ( they are getting less money for their product).

Sorry Kilo.  You are not a Bolshevist.  You are whatever you wish to call yourself.  I don't care about labels. Sometimes I find myself in total accord with centralization and sometimes not.  Generally speaking I am inclined to give the world free rein and worry about accommodating it personally.

And also I have not yet used the words "free market".  Because I agree.  All markets are creatures of the players.  There are big players and little players.  And they constantly come and go.  I haven't heard much of the Medici recently - who, by the way, got their start in the grain market in Florence.

 

[Kilo_302]

To be correctly political, a government mandated wheat pool is a feature of the Fascist Corporate State. FDR and the New Dealers were quite enamoured of the Fascists and many New Deal initiatives, including NRA industrial cartels were explicitly modelled on Italian Fascist practices.

You're welcome.

Well there's a misreading of history if I ever saw one. Seatbelts are government mandated, does that make them fascist too? Just ridiculous.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So believing that Canada should control its own food production means I am a Bolshevist.

You and Rocky Mountain have cited "free markets" in this discussion. Perhaps you can explain how it's better for a Saudi government owned "company" to essentially control Canadian grain production than it is for our own farmers, or even our own government. Are you so against Canadian nationalization that you would prefer a foreign government to own the CWB? You really are an ideological contortionist.

You're both really out to lunch here. If you believe that Harper's government had any fealty to "free markets" or any ideology beyond self-interest, you've been had. This deal made exactly zero sense when it was made, from a fiscal point of view (we have lost billions on it), from an ideological point of view (a foreign government owning the CWB isn't exactly "free market") nor from a farmer's point of view ( they are getting less money for their product).

They are also trying to build a grain terminal in North Vancouver as well, they are looking at securing their major food source for the future and Canada is safe and reliable and far from the troubles.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Right so it's preferable in your mind to have a foreign government own Canadian food supply chain assets?

Preferable compared to what?  Foreign governments and companies own plenty of things in Canada, and Canadian-based companies own plenty of things abroad.  Stop concern trolling and substantiate a point - if you have one.