Police pulling guns on Reservists in BC

[Korporaal]

The Seaforth Highlanders (Vancouver) were supposed to do the BFT last night, but it was cancelled due to an incident last Wednesday whereby the 12 th Service Battalion in Richmond had the police draw there arms on the Reservists.
Apparentley the service battalion guys were doing there BFT when the police stopped them (pointing there pistols at the guys) due to the fact that they were carring there rifles.

I thought we were supposed to be on the same side....

Has anybody heard anything more about this.

 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Any sources for this?

 

[Michael OLeary]

I thought we were supposed to be on the same side....

If this happened the following question comes to mind: Did anyone inform the police that the troops would be conducting their march with weapons?

 

[medaid]

Haven't heard about this and I am rather close to the armouries.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Kinda dumb of the police. Handguns are a poor match for assault rifles, what did they expect to do if they weren't soldiers and those rifles were loaded?

 

[medaid]

I suggest we lock this till OP can come back with a source. I'll do a little digging on my end.

 

[Old Ranger]

Not the first time there has been some misscommunication (pissing contest).

Let your higher ups sort it out, they have reference material.

1988, 1989 were a couple of years in Ontario with a local pissing contest. Our dear Lt typed up letter of intent, times and location and training that WAS going to take place. Marched into local Police Detachment and handed the letter to their SGT.
He was told "you can't do this/that"...Yes I can, Federal trumps Region, I'm just being polite and informing you so none of your officers do something stupid. Have a nice day and off we went in search of the armies of Fantasia.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[marshall sl]

Not the first time for this in BC, It happened in the mid 70's when we trained at the UBC Endowment lands doing map and compass as well as section formations etc,and down on Granville Island long before it was the shopping /tousist destination it is now.

 

[Korporaal]

Any sources for this?

One of the Senior NCO`s who was organising the BFT told us, so I assume it was accurate.

 

[George Wallace]

Kinda dumb of the police. Handguns are a poor match for assault rifles, what did they expect to do if they weren't soldiers and those rifles were loaded?

Not that unusual.  I have heard, from my Sig O, a first hand account how some constables drew their service pistols on him and a MCpl as they returned to their Coyote.  Wouldn't you figure that 25mm would trump their service pistols?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Exactly George, poor situational awareness.

 

[Lumber]

Where can I find, or could you tell me what is, the law that describes the right/lack thereof of the army to handle/carry loaded/not loaded firearms in public?

Could the RHLIes legally go on a strole through downtown Hamilton, armed with loaded rifles? I mean, obviously they would need a good reason to have loaded weapons, but what does the law say?

 

[Haggis]

Where can I find, or could you tell me what is, the law that describes the right/lack thereof of the army to handle/carry loaded/not loaded firearms in public?

Could the RHLIes legally go on a strole through downtown Hamilton, armed with loaded rifles? I mean, obviously they would need a good reason to have loaded weapons, but what does the law say?

Although there are many federal and local prohibitions, above and beyond the Criminal Code and Firearms Acts, Section 3(2) of the Firearms Act reads: "Notwithstanding subsection (1), this Act does not apply in respect of the Canadian Forces."

In short, we can carry loaded weapons, unloaded weapons, bombs, rockets and missiles, anytime and wnywhere.  However we must do it reasonably and in accordance with all extant CF Regulations, Orders and Directives.

It's also VERY important to remain cordial with your local police service.  Someday it will come in handy.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Where can I find, or could you tell me what is, the law that describes the right/lack thereof of the army to handle/carry loaded/not loaded firearms in public?

Could the RHLIes legally go on a strole through downtown Hamilton, armed with loaded rifles? I mean, obviously they would need a good reason to have loaded weapons, but what does the law say?

Well, you could try relying on this section of the NDA:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/N-5/bo-ga:l_V-gb:s_257//en#anchorbo-ga:l_V-gb:s_257

Manoeuvres

Authorization by Minister

257. (1) For the purpose of training the Canadian Forces, the Minister may authorize the execution of military exercises or movements, referred to in this section as “manoeuvres”, over and on such parts of Canada and during such periods as are specified.

Notice
(2) Notice of manoeuvres shall, by appropriate publication, be given to the inhabitants of any area concerned.

Powers
(3) Units and other elements of the Canadian Forces may execute manoeuvres on and pass over such areas as are specified under subsection (1), stop or control all traffic thereover whether by water, land or air, draw water from such sources as are available, and do all things reasonably necessary for the execution of the manoeuvres.

Interference
(4) Any person who wilfully obstructs or interferes with manoeuvres authorized under this section and any animal, vehicle, vessel or aircraft under the person’s control may be forcibly removed by any constable or by any officer, or by any non-commissioned member on the order of any officer.

Bar of action
(5) No action lies by reason only of the execution of manoeuvres authorized under this section.

R.S., 1985, c. N-5, s. 257; R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 60.

But, para (5) above, in my interpretation, says you can't claim to do such things simply because you are participating in training "mamoeuvres".  And claiming you have the Minister's authority simply because you want to conduct such training may be over-reaching the local chain of command's authority.  If, however, you have demonstrated a clear training requirement to do so, and have clearance from the chain of command as far up as necessary, then, theoretically, you could stroll downtown with loaded weapons.  Good luck with that.

Note also para (2), which, in many cases, is served by making the local LEO aware of your intent to carry weapons for training, even if they will not be loaded at any time.

Be very careful when you want to use your own broad-brush interpretations of any regulations.  "I thought it could mean ..." is a pretty weak defence at a Court Martial.

 

[scas]

This same thing happened to me about 2 years ago, and I got bit on the buttocks by the police dog, when they came looking for the other half of my section/.

 

[Danjanou]

Not the first time for this in BC, It happened in the mid 70's when we trained at the UBC Endowment lands doing map and compass as well as section formations etc,and down on Granville Island long before it was the shopping /tousist destination it is now.

I remember a few of those ahem "impromtu realistic training exercises." ;D

I've seen it happen in TO , BC,  Nfld etc etc . Like Forrest says Dumbshit sometimes happens.

 

[Old Ranger]

This same thing happened to me about 2 years ago, and I got bit on the buttocks by the police dog, when they came looking for the other half of my section/.

Did the Dog need to get it's shot's updated? :

And when they pull over the Vehicle transfering Weapons...that's a whole new ball of Fun.

 

[Timmy!]

I always wanted to see a LEO pull over a MLVW with artillery gun behind it...  ;D

 

[The_Falcon]

We always try to give TPS a heads up when we go out and about, although there was one time we did an impromptu ruckmarch one weekend (our buses never showed up on the friday night, so we stayed in MPA and did training there.), through Regent Park and about halfway into it a TPS cruiser rolls by, and says I figured it was you guys, apparently a couple of concernced citizens called the police after see a whole bunch of people in green carrying rifles and bazookas (P.C's words).  I guess they (TPS) were able to figure out it was army guys marching around considering our proximity to Regent Park. 

Now that is in sharp contrast to the OPP calling out their tac teams and shuting down the highway, after a motorist passes our bus and freaks when they see people inside with rifles.

 

[Haggis]

And when they pull over the Vehicle transfering Weapons...that's a whole new ball of Fun.

I was the armed escort in a LSVW full of individual and crew served weapons coming back from Fort Drum.  All the required notifications had been made on both sides of the border, yet this Canada  Customs Inspector questioned the authority under which I could carry a loaded weapon back into Canada.  I quoted Section 3(2) of the Firearms Act and after he looked it up we were allowed to proceed.

I always wanted to see a LEO pull over a MLVW with artillery gun behind it...  ;D

I was pulled over on Highway 417 by Ottawa Police while crew commanding a Grizzly going back to Petawawa.  I popped the rear harch and the cop asks "What IS this???"  So, we gave him the $0.05 tour.