Pay: Statements, Backpay, Benefits, Deductions (Taxes, T4), Deployed ect... [MERGED]

[Pusser]

Where you rank on the Merit List has no effect on when you are promoted.  As long as you are above the cut-off, you will get promoted sometime that year and you're right, everyone promoted in a given year has the same seniority in that rank of 1 January.  It kind of sucks to be at the top of the Merit List and the last promoted, but it does happen and yes, it affects your pay.  However, in order to be promoted, there has to be a position to fill, so you have to wait until the new position you're being promoted to fill becomes vacant. 

Overall seniority amongst members of the same rank with the same seniority in that rank is determined by their seniority in their previous rank (e.g. if two officers are promoted to captain in the same year, the one who was first promoted to lieutenant is the senior one).  Their are further "tie-breaking" rules that end with the older member is the most senior.  Seniority is never determined by where you stood on the Merit List in a given year.

None of this really matters that much though, I have never witnessed a scene like in the movie Zulu, where the two lieutenants argue over who should be in charge and their commissioning dates are only weeks apart.

On a final note, the only time a person's seniority date is not 1 January is upon initial enrollment or commissioning.  You can't have seniority based on a date when you weren't even in the CAF, nor can a commissioned officer have seniority from a date that they weren't commissioned.  For most ROTP officers, their seniority date as a 2Lt is 1 May.

 

[TCM621]

Where you rank on the Merit List has no effect on when you are promoted.  As long as you are above the cut-off, you will get promoted sometime that year and you're right, everyone promoted in a given year has the same seniority in that rank of 1 January.  It kind of sucks to be at the top of the Merit List and the last promoted, but it does happen and yes, it affects your pay.  However, in order to be promoted, there has to be a position to fill, so you have to wait until the new position you're being promoted to fill becomes vacant. 

Overall seniority amongst members of the same rank with the same seniority in that rank is determined by their seniority in their previous rank (e.g. if two officers are promoted to captain in the same year, the one who was first promoted to lieutenant is the senior one).  Their are further "tie-breaking" rules that end with the older member is the most senior.  Seniority is never determined by where you stood on the Merit List in a given year.

None of this really matters that much though, I have never witnessed a scene like in the movie Zulu, where the two lieutenants argue over who should be in charge and their commissioning dates are only weeks apart.

On a final note, the only time a person's seniority date is not 1 January is upon initial enrollment or commissioning.  You can't have seniority based on a date when you weren't even in the CAF, nor can a commissioned officer have seniority from a date that they weren't commissioned.  For most ROTP officers, their seniority date as a 2Lt is 1 May.

That is kind of why it is confusing to me. Generally, seniority is irrelevant because the CoC is pretty delineated. If person A goes down, person B is in charge etc. I figured the only real issue is pay. A guy who barely squeaks on to the promotion list shouldn't end up benefiting over a person who topped the list or came close to it but the system seems to allow it.

 

[Blackadder1916]

None of this really matters that much though, I have never witnessed a scene like in the movie Zulu, where the two lieutenants argue over who should be in charge and their commissioning dates are only weeks apart.

Despite being used as a training aid in leadership for Canadian officers (it was watched and discussed on my BOTC decades ago) Zulu is a "fictionalized" account of the action at Rorke's Drift.  According to the "National Army Museum Book of the Zulu War" (which I am currently reading) the command of the station (and senior officer present) at Rorke's Drift and responsible for the lines of communication from the coast was a Major Spalding (Brevet Major Henry Spalding, 104th Foot, on Chelmsford's staff).  When news arrived that the Zulus were approaching, Major Spalding left to find and hurry up another company of the 24th that was overdue in coming up to reinforce the garrison.  Before he left, he consulted the Army List to determine who was the senior Regular Army officer (there was also a Captain William Stephenson commanding a company of the Natal Native Contingent that was part of the garrison, but he was an "Irregular" - anyway the NNC, along with their OC left before the worst of the fracas).  On determining that Chard was senior, he was placed in temporary command in Spalding's absence.

Oh, while it wasn't a recreation of the scene from Zulu, I was once party to a discussion of who was "the senior officer present" among a group of equally ranked in order to determine who was responsible for a fuck-up.

 

[NSDreamer]

Here's one:

If you're deployed/Restricted posted to an Operation. Your spouse cannot come with you and you must maintain your home furniture and affects for your family to live at do you stay on the same PLD register, or does your Hardship&Risk+FSP kick in and you lose PLD?

 

[Pusser]

Here's one:

If you're deployed/Restricted posted to an Operation. Your spouse cannot come with you and you must maintain your home furniture and affects for your family to live at do you stay on the same PLD register, or does your Hardship&Risk+FSP kick in and you lose PLD?

Yes.

 

[NSDreamer]

Yes.

...yes to which? It was an either/or question?

 

[dapaterson]

Yes to the correct answer. 

 

[NSDreamer]

Yes to the correct answer. 

:facepalm: OF COURSE, how could I have been so stupid!

  ;D

 

[Pusser]

dapaterson is right!

However, to clarify, when attach posted to an operation (you don't get posted to operations), then your PLD remains intact for your family back home.

When they changed PLD about ten years ago (i.e. removing Ottawa from the PLD), those folks who were in Ottawa at the time kept it (actually it's called TPLD, but those details are not important), but those newly posted in did not get it.  I was attaché posted to a mission after that point and kept my (T)PLD for the duration.  I did not lose my (T)PLD until I was actually posted out of Ottawa.  When I returned I did not get it again.

 

[jofafa]

Good day,

I was just deployed on a named Operation for a period of 8 days, 6 of those on the ground at location. Even though we are talking about a small sum of money  (~150$) is that tax free or is there a minimum of days to be outside the country?

Thanks.

 

[Pusser]

Good day,

I was just deployed on a named Operation for a period of 8 days, 6 of those on the ground at location. Even though we are talking about a small sum of money  (~150$) is that tax free or is there a minimum of days to be outside the country?

Thanks.

Are you Attach Posted or on Temporary Duty?  If on TD, the answer is no.

 

[jofafa]

It was TD, we re deployed the camp back to Canada to end the OP

 

[TUNETOG]

I have a pay question. I’ll try to be brief.

-Was ResF (not spec) CT/OT to AESOP at IPC4

-Completed QL5 @ 402 and was posted.

Glitch in the pay system didn’t allow them to give me spec pay. In the meantime WngOR is going to manually pay 80% of back pay owed (almost 12mo) and 80% of current spec going forward until Pay in Ottawa sorts this glitch.

Problem is, when WngOR is calculating my rate they’re saying when I switch to Spec I’m going to IPC2 based off of the CBI’s. Qualifying service only counts as time in trade (feb 2016-present). Even though at the standard pay rate I was IPC 4. I’ve shown the OR the message that came out Jun17 stating all VOT will maintain IPC....however they said I don’t fall under VOT. Specific section of the CBI herethat they are citing for reference. I haven’t been able to find anyone else who transferred from ResF-RegF who lost IPC...though they didn’t have any glitches with pay when switching to spec to begin with. I feel the OR interpretation of the CBI is wrong. Otherwise a bunch of people are going to owe money. I’d like to get some thoughts/fodder that I can bring to my OR to fix this.


204.03(5) (Rate of pay - occupational career progression) A non-commissioned member who progresses in their occupational career shall be paid the rate of pay established in the senior Military Occupational Structure Identification (MOSID) in a specialist occupation, for the pay increment and qualifying service for their rank pertaining to the sum of:

the pay increment for their rank in the higher trade group that is nearest to, but not less than, the rate of pay the member was receiving on the day immediately prior to meeting the conditions the senior MOSID; and
the qualifying service accumulated in the junior MOSID of the same occupation for the member’s present rank, including any acting rank,
(TB 1 June 2017, effective 1 September 2017)

but not to exceed the rate of pay for the highest pay increment in their new trade group.

204.03(6) (Rate of pay - voluntary occupational transfer) An officer or non-commissioned member who voluntarily transfers to a military occupation, under such conditions as established in orders or instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff, shall be paid the rate of pay established for the member's rank, pay level, new trade group, if applicable, and pay increment determined in accordance with CBI 204.015 (Pay Increments). Once a member achieves occupational qualified status, their rate of pay shall be determined in accordance with paragraph (5) of this instruction.

 

[CountDC]

your ETP should specify you trade, rank and IPC on enrolment into the Reg F.  If your ETP reflects you were enrolled as AESOP then they are correct and it is not a VOT.

What you may be missing in our wonderful system is that a CT is actually a release from the component you are in and then an enrolment into the component you are joining.  In your case you were released from the reserves and then enrolled into the regular force as an AESOP thus no VOT.

Crappy system that I wish they would hurry up and fix so we could process as a real CT. 

 

[Gimli]

I suspect these questions have been answered somewhere, but I haven’t found them yet.  I am trying to decipher the CF pay scale.  In itself, it seems simple.  However, it does leave some unanswered questions.

I am re-enlisting.  It has been awhile and I don’t remember how some of this works.  Also, I suspect I may not have asked these questions before because I didn’t progress beyond Corporal and some of this didn’t apply.  My PLAR has been completed and they are offering recruit school bypass. 

My questions are:

1) Is the Private Basic pay only for recruits in Basic Training, or is for the trade training as well?  Or is it for the first full year?

2) How much is Private Basic pay?  It’s not on the pay scale.

3) Why does the pay scale only go to Private 3, when it normally takes 4 years to become a Corporal?

4) Why is Master Corporal Basic pay less then Corporal 3 or 4?  (I’m assuming that 5B Corporal is Master Corporal)

5) When promoted, does one normally start at _____ Basic? or perhaps they would start at a higher pay level based on their prior pay level?

Thanks

 

[211RadOp]

1. During Basic Trg you receive Pte Recruit pay.  Upon completion you move to Pte Basic (unless things have changed since I went through many years ago)
2. No idea.  Can't help here.
3. Recruit + Basic for first year, incentive 1, 2 and 3 annually equals 4 years
4. When appointed to MCpl, you go lateral.  EG Cpl 3 goes to MCpl 3
5. You start at basic and work your way up annually

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Private pay is the same whether you are Pte(R), Pte(B) or Pte(T) ... these are only used to differentiate between a new recruit, someone who as complete some BMQ-C or BMQ-L and, someone who has complete BMQ-C, BMQ-L and, their appropriate trades course.

 

[CountDC]

2. - 2995 (Reg F)  All ptes start as Pte 1 IPC 1 upon enrolment.

Master Corporal is an appointment thus you keep the IPC.

The are offering recruit school bypass on your plar which has to do with your quals so I am guessing you have been out over 5 years.  What rank and IPC have they offered though?

 

[Gimli]

Thanks.  That makes sense with MCPL and other promotions. 

I’m still unclear as to what level of private pay I will receive.  Normally when does a new recruit move from basic to level 1?  Is it right after BMQ?

My PLAR only offered recruit school bypass.  Yes I have been out for awhile, so I’m very glad for that.  No rank offered.  I will have to do 4 years as a Private.  And can hope to get it in 3.

This will be a different and new trade for me. So it makes sense that I need to spend time learning the basics.  But at the same time, I’ll take anything they offer.

IPC?  Not sure what that is.

From what I have been told, I get 25 days yearly vacation right away and can buy back my pension time.

 

[mariomike]

IPC?  Not sure what that is.

Incentive Pay Category ( IPC )

https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1280&bih=621&ei=WeGrW5KHBIvOjwSYt5fYCQ&q=site%3Aarmy.ca+ipc&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca+ipc&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.67634.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.N6ogKi-Fsyo

For reference to the discussion,

Pay increments 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/62778.125
6 pages.