Pay Increase

[George Wallace]

Wizard of Oz

Your comments on Cpl and MCpl having four pay levels is deceptive, especially when you put a caveat on it to the effect that a NCM requires to be promoted every 5 years.  A Cpl promoted to MCpl goes into the same pay level as he left.  If he was a Cpl 3, he is promoted into MCpl 3 not MCpl 1.  That gives the Cpl/MCpl rank together only four levels not eight.

GW

 

[S McKee]

Wizard of Oz

Your comments on Cpl and MCpl having four pay levels is deceptive, especially when you put a caveat on it to the effect that a NCM requires to be promoted every 5 years.   A Cpl promoted to MCpl goes into the same pay level as he left.   If he was a Cpl 3, he is promoted into MCpl 3 not MCpl 1.   That gives the Cpl/MCpl rank together only four levels not eight.

GW

I think you better check your facts there George, you don't automatically jump to a incentive three in the next rank just because you were an incentive three in the previous.

 

[gunner56]

So,let me see.I've been out of Militia  since 1978,and working for Coca Cola for the last 21.5 years.We just got a 2.5% increase which brings me to 23.55/hr.I also have to pay premiums for group health,and Alberta health care.A new Corporal gets almost as much as I do after only 4 years.Well so he should(and perhaps more yet).You guys are in a much more dangerous line of work than I am.After all,I only drive a forklift.
p.s. I'm not being sarcastic here,I'm serious!

 

[Fraser.g]

I think you better check your facts there George, you don't automatically jump to a incentive three in the next rank just because you were an incentive three in the previous.

GW is correct

It is true for the movement from the RANK of Cpl to the APPOINTMENT of MCpl.
If you are cpl three you do infact go directly to MCpl three.

GF

 

[big_johnson1]

And I will confirm that yet again as I went from Cpl IPC 3 to MCpl IPC 3.

 

[Wizard of OZ]

Yup your right GW you go to the incentive or the one above depending on your pay scale.  All i was saying is that it is harder for the NCMs to keep ahead of the game then for Officers.

I hope you don't think i was slaming the NCM's i would not trash my own backyard.  Just trying to figure out where MM is comming from.

MOO

 

[S McKee]

I stand corrected, should have checked with my CC first..hey it's been a while....

 

[Fraser.g]

I went from Cpl 4 to MCpl 4

Next argument

GF

 

[Nfld Sapper]

"4. ENVIRONMENTAL AND SPECIAL ALLOWANCES WILL BE ADJUSTED AS FOLLOWS
(A) EFF 1 APR 04 5.68 PERCENT AND
(B) EFF 1 APR 05 2.4 PERCENT
5. THE ABOVE INCREASES SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE END MAR 05 PAY FOR
MOST CF MEMBERS 6. THE REVISED RATES ARE AVAILABLE ON THE DGCB INTERNET SITE AT
HTTP://WWW.DND.CA/HR/DPPD// AND INTRANET
HTTP://HR.DWAN.DND.CA/DGCB/DPPD//"

Just heard today for my OR that the increase in now going to be effective mid-April and not as what was mentioned in the snip from CANFORGEN 033/05 CDS 010

 

[Chags]

No.. the increase will still be effective 01 Apr 05 (with Back pay from 01 Apr 04).. It just wont be on your pay until the mid-april pay cheque.. 

Check out CANFORGEN 043/05..  its all there.

 

[NCRCrow]

I checked the link at the Internet site and my pay remains the same as before.

Is there an updated version on the INTRANET?

 

[DAA]

Sorry but I don't have access to the intranet, but here is the link for the updated internet site:

NCMs - http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/NCMRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28

Offrs - http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/OfficerRegFPayRate_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28

Rates listed above are effective 1 Apr 05.

I saw the announcement on the delay in implementing the pay increase.  Makes me wonder what they mean by "DUE TO AN UNFORESEEN PROBLEM OUTSIDE THE DEPTS CONTROL"??  Sounds like an exercise in financial management to keep operating costs down for the FY 04/05, seeing as all that back-dated pay would have come from this years budget, but by delaying the payment of the increase until after 1 Apr 05, it would go against the bottom line of next FY, or could it be because PSAC has not yet "signed" the new contracts which were ratified?

 

[NCRCrow]

Thanks,

the Command Chief told us the delay was that the Budget had to be signed in the H of C.

 

[bridges]

Which begs the question...just out of curiosity:    if the pay increase had not actually been approved prior to yesterday, and the CF has been telling us since last summer to have confidence that it will be coming, on the basis of what have they been telling us this?   Was the concept of an increase approved by Treasury Board, but not the specific amounts?   And if that's the case, how were the specific amounts able to be released in a CANFORGEN on 15 Feb, when the budget wasn't passed by the H of C until yesterday?  

The Conservatives abstained from the vote yesterday, but what if they had all voted against the budget and forced an election - would we now be reading another CANFORGEN telling us to wait until September for our increase, but to have confidence that it's coming?

Personally I'm still inclined to give the system the benefit of the doubt; most of us are overworked and sometimes not all the info gets through to everyone, or signals get crossed, or whatever.    But it still looks odd, and it looks as if the CANFORGEN announcements were premature, or worded incorrectly.   There must be some reason why DND has not been able to tell us more until now.  If anyone reading this has some personal knowledge of how this worked, and is in a posn to clear this up, I'd be all ears.    ???       

Edited for typos

 

[George Wallace]

Which begs the question...if the pay increase had not actually been approved prior to yesterday, why has the CF been telling us since last summer that it was approved?   Was it simply a staff mix-up?   I'd like to give the system the benefit of the doubt; most of us are overworked and sometimes not all the info gets through to everyone, or signals get crossed, or whatever.    But it's still odd.   Is anyone reading this in a posn to clear this up?

The pay raise is part of a complicated procedure.   It was approved.   The amount of the raise was to be set at a comparable rate to that the Public Civil Service got, which meant that we had to wait until their STRIKE was SETTLED.   Now we have to wait for the Federal Government to approve their BUDGET, to give us the money to pay for that raise.   Do you understand now?

GW

 

[bridges]

No need to get testy - I trust you didn't intend to come across that way.  People today are more inquisitive and require a little more info sometimes, than they did in the old days.  And when there is a lack of info, people quite rightly ask questions - as we have all seen in this forum. 

BTW, all of what you have said was already public knowledge.  I was asking about the part that we haven't been told - the fact that it looks as if we didn't actually have the money approved until yesterday, even while we've been assured for months now that it had been approved. 

Is anyone inside the pay increase process in a posn to shed any light here?

 

[George Wallace]

Not being testy; but as you say "it is all public knowledge" so all you need is some patience.  Pay Pers have already posted above.  I imagine that they are getting a bit testy with too many inquiries about the same thing that they have posted.  Again, patience.

 

[bridges]

Thanks for your comments, GW.   I'll respectfully differ with you on a few points:

IMO, we shouldn't be trying to shut down sincere questions.   Isn't part of Army.ca's purpose to provide a forum for them?   In all my years as a pay clerk, I never once received a frivolous question.   Bottom line, it's mbrs' right as soldiers and citizens to understand things that affect them, if they choose.   This isn't like a life-or-death sit, where you do things without questioning.  

Thanks for the reminder about "patience", but it's irrelevant to this question.   It doesn't matter to me when the pay raise comes in, and I believe our leaders when they say it's coming eventually.   I haven't already spent it...good thing, as it turns out.   Just trying to understand the approval process.

There's a mis-quote in your post.   I didn't say that all the info that I am seeking is public knowledge already.   Rather, I said that all the info that you had provided was public knowledge.   The info I'm looking for doesn't seem to be out there.    

If any of the posts in this thread were in fact from pay staff, this question didn't get answered.   If I'm missing it in some other thread, I'd be grateful for a point in the right direction, fm anyone.

My question is similar to the one that DAA posted above on 08 Mar:   if the budget was only approved on 09 Mar, how was the MND able to announce the rates & implementation date back on 15 Feb?   Did DND have (or need) a backup plan to find this money if the budget had been voted down?   Or, if parliament had been dissolved on 09 Mar because of the budget being voted down, would we now be seeing another CANFORGEN saying that, due to factors outside the dept's control, the implementation of the pay raise is postponed until parliament resumes after the election?  

This isn't a "straw man" question.   Even though TB may have approved the raise, the budget to pay for it still has to pass the senate, as far as I know, and then the H of C again for the final reading.   It seems like the CANFORGEN might have more accurately said "IF THE BUDGET IS PASSED BY THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE SENATE, THEN THE PAY RAISE WILL BE IMPLELENTED IN MID-APRIL"   - but we don't know, because this part isn't widely known w/in DND.   And judging from this forum, I'm not the only person who's interested.   So the question remains.  

I have trust in our system & leadership - just curious about this sit.   If anyone's reading this who knows the answer, or has a plausible guess, I'm all ears.    

Hope y'all are having a good day.
Shannon.

Edited for typos & clarity...or an attempt at it anyway....

 

[Sundborg]

Just to get clarified on the subject...

Is our back pay and raise going to be all on our mid April pay?

 

[jc5778]

latest info is YES mid april pay