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Ontario Election: New riding and choices.

Cdn Blackshirt said:
I remain stupified by the Ontario PC Party's ability to nominate the worst possible candidates given the choices available....

I will be voting PC because my fear of Doug Ford's combination of obnoxiousness and stupidity is only slightly lower than my fear of Andrea's candidates' "crazy".

For next election, I may actually join the 'Consensus' party and assist with their campaign - they were just a little late to get rolling this time around to have much of an impact.


M.

I'm with you with one exception, I have been a long time party member but more recently have not become involved in the leadership race(s). I think it's past due time to get re-involved and take the party back.

:cheers:
 
FJAG said:
I'm with you with one exception, I have been a long time party member but more recently have not become involved in the leadership race(s). I think it's past due time to get re-involved and take the party back.

:cheers:

Take it back from whom? Doug Ford won the Party election. He was voted in by the rank and file with a majority. Unless you're in his riding, you are not voting for him. I wish people would move past their personal dislike of Ford. For me, it was a decision on a socialist government, a radical socialist government or a conservative government. I want to keep the money that I worked 50 odd years to collect and invest. I have no compunction whatsoever to help any illegals, border jumpers, sanctuary politicians or paid anarchists. I voted for the party closest to my values and wants and that was Conservative. Do I care Ford might fuck up? Absolutely, but so far, no cause for alarm. As opposed to the grits and dippers, who's pogroms, dirty dealings and potential ties to Soros stink to high heaven and we've already seen the havoc, financial and cultural, that both leftist parties will promote in order to gain full control. Ontario is on the cusp of being able to pull back and not become another communist failure. It'll take time, but if we don't do it now, I fear we won't get another chance in the future.

Doug Ford is someone I see on TV. I've never met him, nor likely ever will. I can't judge someone by what I read or hear from the MSM, unless there is multiple reporting of the same incident by all the MSM, with the same facts. Horvath and Wynne fit that bill, 15 years of watching both is enough to draw conclusions. Being in an election, I'm not interested, nor believe, in the lies of the media or opposition. It's garbage and innuendo. I will judge Doug Ford on what I see from him as Premier. Not what some gender bent, antifa, blm, unionist, etc, etc has decided, will be good for me. Time to swing the pendulum the other way, before it breaks off and remains on the left.

Already voted.
 
FJAG said:
I'm with you with one exception, I have been a long time party member but more recently have not become involved in the leadership race(s). I think it's past due time to get re-involved and take the party back.

:cheers:


I've done as you did and now I'm thinking the same way you are.

----------

I voted today. Fortunately I have a good solid PCPO candidate here ~ I'm in Ottawa centre, with Spectrum ~ so I can vote PC{PO despite Doug Ford's manifest lack of qualifications to hold high office.

----------

I want to see the parliamentary/legislative leadership being largely in the hands of elected MPs and MPPs and candidates for election with some votes going to riding associations: say a 75 : 25 split, while the Party platform should be largely drafted and decided in the riding associations, by grass-roots members and then voted on in open conventions. The platform should then be required to be signed by every prospective candidate ... you join the Party, you run on the Party's platform, every bit of it, and then you, as a candidate, get to pick your party's leader.

If the members of the PCPO caucus think that Doug Ford can be, will be a good leaders in the legislature and a good premier then they should select him from their ranks; if they think someone else in the caucus will do a better job then they should have a bit of a revolt and elect a new premier ... as recceguy says, none of vote for the premier, we all vote for a representative of our community, those representatives then give their confidence to one Party in the legislature to form a government and that Party should select the premier from the ranks of its elected members.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Fortunately I have a good solid PCPO candidate here ~ I'm in Ottawa centre, with Spectrum ~ so I can vote PC{PO despite Doug Ford's manifest lack of qualifications to hold high office.

Regarding the part I highlighted in your post.

I voted Doug with the hope he will get in at Queen's Park.

Otherwise, if he does not get in there, registration for candidates is only 1 km. away at City Hall.
It is open until July 27, with the election on October 22, 2018.

It has been mercifully shortened from the ten-month campaign we went through in 2014.

Assuming Doug gets in at Queen's Park, he may be able to impose the "strong mayor - one person in charge" system on Toronto.

Rob voted against it as a councillor, when David Miller was mayor.

Fortunately, when Rob was mayor, under the "weak mayor" system, he was unable to veto city council.

Unlike a city employee, they could not fire him. But, because Rob lacked veto power, as a matter of public safety, they were able to transfer his authority during a state of emergency to the Deputy Mayor.

If Premier Doug Ford is able to impose the "strong mayor" system - with veto power - on Toronto, it could make things interesting if his nephew, Ward 2 Councillor Michael Ford, were to successfully run against Mayor Tory this October.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-pc-leader-says-hed-like-to-bring-in-a-u-s-style-strong-mayor-system-for-cities-one-person-in-charge?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles



 

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recceguy said:
Take it back from whom? Doug Ford won the Party election. He was voted in by the rank and file with a majority. Unless you're in his riding, you are not voting for him. I wish people would move past their personal dislike of Ford. For me, it was a decision on a socialist government, a radical socialist government or a conservative government. I want to keep the money that I worked 50 odd years to collect and invest. I have no compunction whatsoever to help any illegals, border jumpers, sanctuary politicians or paid anarchists. I voted for the party closest to my values and wants and that was Conservative. Do I care Ford might frig up? Absolutely, but so far, no cause for alarm. As opposed to the grits and dippers, who's pogroms, dirty dealings and potential ties to Soros stink to high heaven and we've already seen the havoc, financial and cultural, that both leftist parties will promote in order to gain full control. Ontario is on the cusp of being able to pull back and not become another communist failure. It'll take time, but if we don't do it now, I fear we won't get another chance in the future.

Doug Ford is someone I see on TV. I've never met him, nor likely ever will. I can't judge someone by what I read or hear from the MSM, unless there is multiple reporting of the same incident by all the MSM, with the same facts. Horvath and Wynne fit that bill, 15 years of watching both is enough to draw conclusions. Being in an election, I'm not interested, nor believe, in the lies of the media or opposition. It's garbage and innuendo. I will judge Doug Ford on what I see from him as Premier. Not what some gender bent, antifa, blm, unionist, etc, etc has decided, will be good for me. Time to swing the pendulum the other way, before it breaks off and remains on the left.

Already voted.

So have I. And while this may surprise you I agree with everything that you say in your first paragraph and that's exactly why I voted Conservative.

My problem isn't with the general party platform. It's with the process by which we chose our leader and, quite frankly, many of my fellow Conservatives who think that he was the best option that we had.

I don't like Ford. While I respect that he only had a month or so to pull it together, it struck me that he did poorly in the campaign. He was absent as the face of the party, did poorly in the debates, showed a poor party platform and alienated many long-time conservatives. (I've been arguing with some of my own family members who do feel that a Conservative vote is an endorsement of Ford which they are not, in good conscience, prepared to do.) On a personal level Ford doesn't strike me as the best that the business community can offer nor as someone who has a firm grasp on provincial issues and provincial government. He might be a successful city councillor but has no experience at the provincial level. I'll give his personal life a by although his early drug history gives me some pause. Before you say it, I do agree that the proof is sketchy at best and long predates his entry into provincial politics. As I said I give him a by and for all that I hear he is a personable, genuinely nice guy.

I think that at the time he was selected as leader, we conservatives were surging well ahead in the polls. It's after he was selected that the PC's started their drop of 10 points and the NDP their rise. Who couldn't forsee that. There's been a modest comeback and quite frankly I think that in the solitude of the voting booth, more folks are going to swallow their bile and mark down "Conservative" in spite of Ford and the polls and to spite Wynne and Horwath. It would be nice though if the province voted for a leader/party they trust and respect instead of voting against ones they revile.

:cheers:
 
FJAG said:
He might be a successful city councillor but has no experience at the provincial level.

In reference to the highlighted.

QUOTE

National Post

Doug Ford once branded himself Toronto's 'co-mayor.' What did he and brother Rob accomplish at City Hall?
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/doug-ford-once-branded-himself-torontos-co-mayor-what-did-he-and-brother-rob-accomplish-at-city-hall

END QUOTE

Regarding his attendance,
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/09/16/doug_ford_had_thirdworst_attendance_missed_53_per_cent_of_2014_city_council_votes.html


 
FJAG said:
So have I. And while this may surprise you I agree with everything that you say in your first paragraph and that's exactly why I voted Conservative.

My problem isn't with the general party platform. It's with the process by which we chose our leader and, quite frankly, many of my fellow Conservatives who think that he was the best option that we had.

I don't like Ford. While I respect that he only had a month or so to pull it together, it struck me that he did poorly in the campaign. He was absent as the face of the party, did poorly in the debates, showed a poor party platform and alienated many long-time conservatives. (I've been arguing with some of my own family members who do feel that a Conservative vote is an endorsement of Ford which they are not, in good conscience, prepared to do.) On a personal level Ford doesn't strike me as the best that the business community can offer nor as someone who has a firm grasp on provincial issues and provincial government. He might be a successful city councillor but has no experience at the provincial level. I'll give his personal life a by although his early drug history gives me some pause. Before you say it, I do agree that the proof is sketchy at best and long predates his entry into provincial politics. As I said I give him a by and for all that I hear he is a personable, genuinely nice guy.

I think that at the time he was selected as leader, we conservatives were surging well ahead in the polls. It's after he was selected that the PC's started their drop of 10 points and the NDP their rise. Who couldn't forsee that. There's been a modest comeback and quite frankly I think that in the solitude of the voting booth, more folks are going to swallow their bile and mark down "Conservative" in spite of Ford and the polls and to spite Wynne and Horwath. It would be nice though if the province voted for a leader/party they trust and respect instead of voting against ones they revile.

:cheers:

I agree. It will be a win despite Ford.

One thing I do console myself with is that his Caucus will have real talent unlike the NDP.  Someone on the radio today stated that we'll learn a lot more about where Ford plans to take us with who he names to cabinet.  In particular finance, health and education.  If someone like Elliott or Mulroney are the finance minister we might be able to take that as a more centrist approach. 

 
I see not having been involved with provincial government as a boon. He gets to come in with a clean fresh look. The municipal governments that Doug Ford sat on were bigger than some provincial legislatures. He, has surrounded himself with good, solid people. As a true leader does. And not surround yourself with radicals that alienate a large swath of voters every time they open their mouths.

Everyone has to start somewhere and politics is politics. The same rules of order exist in all levels. Whether at the municipal, provincial or federal level. I don't even blame him for not costing his whole platform. How would that be fiscally responsible without a look at the books? You have to know where you came from before you can plan to move on. The grits cooked the books for 15 years. They've been slammed by all the financial oversite bodies in the province. Yet Horvath and Wynne would have you believe they have it all figured out, except they don't know what's in the bank to back their promises. That is a huge tell for me. Any shortfall caused by their lack of prep and dishonesty will have to be made up with more and more taxes. Until we, then the government, run out of our money.
 
FJAG said:
So have I. And while this may surprise you I agree with everything that you say in your first paragraph and that's exactly why I voted Conservative.

My problem isn't with the general party platform. It's with the process by which we chose our leader and, quite frankly, many of my fellow Conservatives who think that he was the best option that we had.

I don't like Ford. While I respect that he only had a month or so to pull it together, it struck me that he did poorly in the campaign. He was absent as the face of the party, did poorly in the debates, showed a poor party platform and alienated many long-time conservatives. (I've been arguing with some of my own family members who do feel that a Conservative vote is an endorsement of Ford which they are not, in good conscience, prepared to do.) On a personal level Ford doesn't strike me as the best that the business community can offer nor as someone who has a firm grasp on provincial issues and provincial government. He might be a successful city councillor but has no experience at the provincial level. I'll give his personal life a by although his early drug history gives me some pause. Before you say it, I do agree that the proof is sketchy at best and long predates his entry into provincial politics. As I said I give him a by and for all that I hear he is a personable, genuinely nice guy.

I think that at the time he was selected as leader, we conservatives were surging well ahead in the polls. It's after he was selected that the PC's started their drop of 10 points and the NDP their rise. Who couldn't forsee that. There's been a modest comeback and quite frankly I think that in the solitude of the voting booth, more folks are going to swallow their bile and mark down "Conservative" in spite of Ford and the polls and to spite Wynne and Horwath. It would be nice though if the province voted for a leader/party they trust and respect instead of voting against ones they revile.

:cheers:

I'm not impressed with the dipper rise in the polls. At first, it appeared strange, and I was genuinely confused. Then the news broke that Horvath was being supported by a Soros spin off super pac. http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-foreign-funded-activist-group-helping-andrea-horwaths-ndp and that our very own public broadcaster would partner with Soros for their coverage. http://brianlilley.com/cbc-joins-forces-with-far-left-soros-backed-group/

I might even wager that the reason for Horvath's open border, sanctuary province promise was payment for Soros' support. The same support the Clintons and Obama paid for. Look where Clinton was polling and what happened to her. Phony polls get you phony advertising and phony results.

Nor am I worried about Horvath's chances today.




But Ive been wrong before also.
 
recceguy said:
I see not having been involved with provincial government as a boon. He gets to come in with a clean fresh look. The municipal governments that Doug Ford sat on were bigger than some provincial legislatures. He, has surrounded himself with good, solid people. As a true leader does. And not surround yourself with radicals that alienate a large swath of voters every time they open their mouths.

Everyone has to start somewhere and politics is politics. The same rules of order exist in all levels. Whether at the municipal, provincial or federal level. I don't even blame him for not costing his whole platform. How would that be fiscally responsible without a look at the books? You have to know where you came from before you can plan to move on. The grits cooked the books for 15 years. They've been slammed by all the financial oversite bodies in the province. Yet Horvath and Wynne would have you believe they have it all figured out, except they don't know what's in the bank to back their promises. That is a huge tell for me. Any shortfall caused by their lack of prep and dishonesty will have to be made up with more and more taxes. Until we, then the government, run out of our money.

It is and it isn't.  Ford hasn't demonstrated any real depth or understanding of certain policies and files beyond catch phrases and slogans.  I hope that changes.  they did a good job of keeping him bubble wrapped throughout the campaign.

I agree that he has good people that he inherited.  Hopefully he will use them.

Costing is what it is and frankly really at the end of the day doesn't matter.  Like you said they'll know when they see the books.  I have no doubt that the conservatives will say that things are worse than they thought and that inefficiencies will now include job and service cuts.  It will just depend on how that is accomplished.

 
 
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. Alexander the Great

I would suggest that the Conservatives are the former, and the Liberals are the later. YMMV.
 
ModlrMike said:
I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. Alexander the Great

I would suggest that the Conservatives are the former, and the Liberals are the later. YMMV.

I'm with you but what about the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing?  ;D

:cheers:
 
The only result I want to see is Liberals being thrown out.  That is the one certainty I have about this election. 

I just hope that what we get will not be worse.
 
Right now, 40% PCPO vs 35% NDP.  Within the margin of error of polls published.

Potentially a question of turnout vs polling - NDP vote skews young, and young voters are generally less likely to vote (2015 Federal election being perhaps an exception). 
 
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