Number of IPC levels for Corporals vs Captians
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BYT Driver said:Didn't they try a new pay scheme a little while ago? Something about being paid for the courses you took and experience levels? Therby a new Cpl/LS would be lvl 1, as they advanced in thier particular trade and affiliate courses, not career courses, they got more pay. I.E. and MSEOP with Airfield Specialist (no, there is not spec pay for that!) and Grader/Dozer course would get, say, $100 extra per month.
I don't know about other trades, but with MSEOP, there's a ton of courses out there for Cpls only (we don't have LS's, that's Navy!) and you'd be hard pressed to get them all in your career or before you actually got promoted.
As a side note, I just viewed my career manglers site, there's over 1100 Cpls in my trade. WOW!!!
Regards
That was the ill-fated "Trade Advancement through Skill and Knowledge" or TASK; everyone loved the idea until it was pointed out that there would be no new money, so there would be winners and losers - some would get much more money, and other would lose some. The idea that a skilled tradesman Cpl might make more than their supervisor also rubbed some peopel the wrong way, so like many ideas in the CF, it died without ever seeing the light of day.
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Dead, but would have been great!
Who cared about getting more than your super, except your super!
I think they also squashed it because the higher ups figured that 4 years was amble time to get promoted. Don't know what trade they were but it doesn't work that well in my trade.
Cheers,
Who cared about getting more than your super, except your super!
I think they also squashed it because the higher ups figured that 4 years was amble time to get promoted. Don't know what trade they were but it doesn't work that well in my trade.
Cheers,
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What would you do with the current MS/MCpls? I guess it would depend on quals and TI as to whether they went up to Sgt or down to Cpl? Or do some sort of "grandfather clause" for a specific time limit for them to attempt to achieve quals required to be promoted.
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IIRC, MS/MCPL is/was a position, not rank. To point out the senior in the trade. They mostly became instructors. Nowadays it's a difficult level to achieve and they are supervisors. (some say it's a crappy job, because you catch "it" from both ends)
They could expand the MS/MCPL numbers by identifying LS /CPLs who are qualified in a leadership role to go up but are waiting for the "sky" to open. In other words, expand the number of M/'s. Leave the workers to work..
and promote up those who want careers.
My 0.02
Cheers
They could expand the MS/MCPL numbers by identifying LS /CPLs who are qualified in a leadership role to go up but are waiting for the "sky" to open. In other words, expand the number of M/'s. Leave the workers to work..
and promote up those who want careers.My 0.02
Cheers
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BYT, my post was if we went to the system that was suggested earlier: with Pte, L/Cpl and Cpl. What would we do with all of the MS/MCpl? And what would a L/Cpl in the Navy be called? A Lance Leading Seaman, or just stick with Able Seaman?
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Our min and max pay levels per rank are set by Treasury Board Canada based on benchmark standards for comparable work and experience in the private sector with an additional 'military factor' figured in.
What you are therefore asking for when stating you want 10 IPCs for the Cpl rank is:
Your difference between the benchmarked minimum pay level and the maximum pay level to be handed out over 10 years.
IE,
You want to take your difference in salary adjustment in 10% increments over 10 years vice reaching the max level in 4 years like you are now doing.
That doesn't make too much sense to me at all. I know a heck of a lot of Captains who'd like to reach their maximum benchmarked level in 4 years instead of 10. The grass is not always greener over there!!
You want 10 incentives? You can have them. Differnece between the min and max level for current Cpls divided by 10 now equals a much smaller pay increase, once per year for 10 years. Glad I'm not a Cpl anymore!!
What you are therefore asking for when stating you want 10 IPCs for the Cpl rank is:
Your difference between the benchmarked minimum pay level and the maximum pay level to be handed out over 10 years.
IE,
You want to take your difference in salary adjustment in 10% increments over 10 years vice reaching the max level in 4 years like you are now doing.
That doesn't make too much sense to me at all. I know a heck of a lot of Captains who'd like to reach their maximum benchmarked level in 4 years instead of 10. The grass is not always greener over there!!
You want 10 incentives? You can have them. Differnece between the min and max level for current Cpls divided by 10 now equals a much smaller pay increase, once per year for 10 years. Glad I'm not a Cpl anymore!!
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The Librarian said:Our min and max pay levels per rank are set by Treasury Board Canada based on benchmark standards for comparable work and experience in the private sector with an additional 'military factor' figured in.
What you are therefore asking for when stating you want 10 IPCs for the Cpl rank is:
Your difference between the benchmarked minimum pay level and the maximum pay level to be handed out over 10 years.
IE,
You want to take your difference in salary adjustment in 10% increments over 10 years vice reaching the max level in 4 years like you are now doing.
That doesn't make too much sense to me at all. I know a heck of a lot of Captains who'd like to reach their maximum benchmarked level in 4 years instead of 10. The grass is not always greener over there!!
You want 10 incentives? You can have them. Differnece between the min and max level for current Cpls divided by 10 now equals a much smaller pay increase, once per year for 10 years. Glad I'm not a Cpl anymore!!
Bang on Vern.
For those that are interested in a couple facts, there are actually 5 IPCs for Cpls, IPC Basic and 1-4, 11 for Captains. The difference between a Cpl on IPC 0 and a CWO IPC 0 is $2371 per month. That's 5 ranks higher. The difference between Captain IPC 0 and Maj IPC 0 is $1934, or $2798 for Pilots. If Captains only had 4 incentives, we would see incentives of around $500 per month every year, or $700 for pilots, there isn't that big of a difference between Cpl 0 and Cpl 4.
Would I like to have less incentives? Hell yeah!
M
mudrecceman
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Agin though, I think the original point was "we should have 6 more incentives for Cpl/Ls that all come with more $$.
As...lots of people have pointed out...the TB sets the Max pay for each rank...so I think the original poster shut'er down when that fact came out. 8)
Perhaps what he REALLY meant to say was "the entire CF should get a pay raise again". ;D
As...lots of people have pointed out...the TB sets the Max pay for each rank...so I think the original poster shut'er down when that fact came out. 8)
Perhaps what he REALLY meant to say was "the entire CF should get a pay raise again". ;D
A
aesop081
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we just got one and , IMHO, we make pretty darned good money.......
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mudrecceman
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shhhhh...maybe they forgot we got one
(I think we make pretty good money too, all other benefits considered as well. Leave, Med/Dental, pension plan...the list goes on.)
And I get free green underwear...where else can you get THAT?
(I think we make pretty good money too, all other benefits considered as well. Leave, Med/Dental, pension plan...the list goes on.)
And I get free green underwear...where else can you get THAT?
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While others have commented on the topic from a practical perspective, I'll take this on from the theoretical one.
1. Corporals are, like it or not, doers, and for the most part, what you get with a 10 year corporal, on the average, isn't much different from what you get with a 4th year corporal. Look at this not from the perspective of the 10 year guy, but from the 4 year one: eagerness and energy can often win out over the additional trade knowledge.
2. Captains could also be considered the doers of the officer world, but there's a world of difference between what you get from an old captain and a young one. The additional incentives reflect that in years 5-10, you're often continuing to gain job knowledge. Again, from the perspective of the 4 year guy: the young, eager, and energetic captain is often just good enough to really mess things up....
The more apt NCO comparison to the Captain, I would argue, is the Sergeant- flexible, used for a wide variety of tasks, able to operate at different levels of the organization, etc. Also, both are leadership ranks, which Corporal is not.
1. Corporals are, like it or not, doers, and for the most part, what you get with a 10 year corporal, on the average, isn't much different from what you get with a 4th year corporal. Look at this not from the perspective of the 10 year guy, but from the 4 year one: eagerness and energy can often win out over the additional trade knowledge.
2. Captains could also be considered the doers of the officer world, but there's a world of difference between what you get from an old captain and a young one. The additional incentives reflect that in years 5-10, you're often continuing to gain job knowledge. Again, from the perspective of the 4 year guy: the young, eager, and energetic captain is often just good enough to really mess things up....
The more apt NCO comparison to the Captain, I would argue, is the Sergeant- flexible, used for a wide variety of tasks, able to operate at different levels of the organization, etc. Also, both are leadership ranks, which Corporal is not.
Echo9 said:
I would be inclined to believe that assessment if you're talking strictly about non-specialist MOSIDs. However, specialist MOSIDs (gawd, I miss "MOC") are still learning well beyond the 4th year Cpl point. Speaking strictly about my own trade, it's unlikely that a 4th year Cpl will have spent any significant amount of time employed in all of the areas of expertise in which we're supposed to be proficient. I know the Combat and Marine Systems Engineering techs on the ships are like that, and I would venture a guess that the 500-series Air maintainer trades are much the same. There's also an aspect of experience that p*ss 'n vinegar just can't replace.
Agreed.
For non-specialist MOCs - yes, I agree wholeheartedly with your take on it. However - and this is speaking from my own personal experience in two similar trades in two different branches of the service - the Corporal in a specialist trade is more likely to equate (in functionality, at least) to the Captain.
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