No Blackhawks for Canada
- Thread starter FormerHorseGuard
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OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Oh Come now Flawed Design!! We are going to arm the Griffons!!
Like the "mini tat" on the Kiowa.....need I say more....
OH BTW,,,I'm infantry with a keen interest in airmobile ops...I've flown in the Twin Huey, the Griffon, the Blackhawk and the Chinook, as a well as a short flight in a Kiowa (cool fun).
I would surmise all have their own roles....The old Twin Huey (doors open) was fun, and Chinooks with the rear ramp open when in flight was great.
Like the "mini tat" on the Kiowa.....need I say more....
OH BTW,,,I'm infantry with a keen interest in airmobile ops...I've flown in the Twin Huey, the Griffon, the Blackhawk and the Chinook, as a well as a short flight in a Kiowa (cool fun).
I would surmise all have their own roles....The old Twin Huey (doors open) was fun, and Chinooks with the rear ramp open when in flight was great.
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cobbler said:I dont see how the two compare. I cannot think of any incident in Timor where there was multiple loss of ADF life.
East Timor was an operation. 9-11 was a terrorist incident. Maybe you are getting confused with the Bali bombings, in which case 88 Aussies dies. Or even the Jakarta Embassy bombing.
Excuse me?
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So you have your head out abit far to go making wild claims like that.
As for exactly where some clashes may have happened, thats disputed. And the reasons behind it I doubt (though don't quote me on it) they are of public knowledge.
Either way, I dont see how a battle with Indonesian forces in which Australian Infantry killed quite a few Indonesian soldiers for no major casualties of our own translates into getting our "butts kicked".
Pretty high expectations you have, whats the view like from up there on your pedestal?
PS: Australia had Blackhawks many years before Timor happened.
There's no need to squabble, I never meant to offend. I was quoting off-hand an incident recounted to me by an old friend I haven't spoken to in years who was in the ADF. Basically it came out of a conversation I was having with him at the time about how much I wished our government would ramp up our military (this was years ago). He responded by telling me of an incident which ocurred during their operations in East Timor which was not heavily publicized but taught a sharp lesson - now perhaps he was misinformed but believe me I never meant anything harmful towards the aussies.
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The Blackhawk is a good aircraft and I'm sure if we were replacing the Griffons we would consider them. However, the reality is that we have the Griffons and it costs a lot of money to buy new helos. The focus is on gaining a medium lift capability and the Blackhawk does not represent that. The Chinook meets our medium lift capability requirements.
Canada does not have enough money and it would be very hard to justify to the taxpayer why we need to replace the Griffon while we bought the Chinook. This is reality and we must work with the machine that we have.
Canada does not have enough money and it would be very hard to justify to the taxpayer why we need to replace the Griffon while we bought the Chinook. This is reality and we must work with the machine that we have.
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yes I agree - I think the mistake we've gotten caught up in here (myself included) is, as said above, comparing apples to basketballs. originally it was why didn't we get the blackhawks - and I believe someone said it wasn't in the works. From there we've sort of drifted into more of a 'what's your favorite helicopter of these three' discussion.
Just a comment on that - what are we waiting for? I have a friend who was involved on tests with even just having a mounted c-9 on each side of the griffin years ago.
Just a comment on that - what are we waiting for? I have a friend who was involved on tests with even just having a mounted c-9 on each side of the griffin years ago.
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aesop081
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AirCanuck said:
We are not waiting for anything. If you do a search on this site you will see that arming the CH-146 with alot more bang than a C-9 LMG is in the contracting process.
Here :
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/70710.0.html
Now, please, research things a bit before posting.
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what I mean was what are we waiting for in terms of how long we'd had the griffin - it seems to me that if that was the role we wanted to deploy it in (and believe me, as it's the aircraft I want to fly hearing you say that is music to my ears!) then we have been taking our time in arming it. When you say a lot more bang, can you be more specific?
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aesop081
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AirCanuck said:
Humm, lets see
C-9 LMG is a single barrel 5.56mm machine gun
DMG134S MiniGun is a 6-barrel 7.62mm Gatling Gun
Did you even bother reading the link i provided ?
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no need to get snappy, I just scrolled too fast and didn't see it. I'll check it out, thanks for the link. 
isn't a comment about APCs and tanks a little off-topic in a discussion about helos?
just read that link - Dillon Aero DMG134S MiniGun looks amazing. That will be quite a thing to see.
isn't a comment about APCs and tanks a little off-topic in a discussion about helos?
just read that link - Dillon Aero DMG134S MiniGun looks amazing. That will be quite a thing to see.
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aesop081
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AirCanuck said:
It was rather relevant considering your comments. Take a few minutes to think about it and i'm sure the meaning will come clear.
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If you got a problem...
Think! Think! Think!
Consider this mystery solverized.
Think! Think! Think!
Consider this mystery solverized.
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In theory it is actually a great idea, the CH-92 Cyclones which we are getting to replace the Sea King are a Sikorsky design which is essentially a Blackhawk drivetrain and rotor mated to a larger fuselage. Since we are going to get the Cyclone, we will develop the infrastructure to take care of Blackhawks as well. I suspect Sikorsky was trying to whet our appetites for a bigger and more powerful Army utility helicopter to supplement and eventually replace the Griffon fleet.
Of course there would be manpower and resource issues surrounding a transition, but I suspect Sikorsky may try again when the first Cyclones get delivered using the common infrastructure/more capable airframe argument.
Of course there would be manpower and resource issues surrounding a transition, but I suspect Sikorsky may try again when the first Cyclones get delivered using the common infrastructure/more capable airframe argument.
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Thucydides said:
but that still brings it back around to the fact that we aren't looking to replace the griffins with a utility lift... atm we're still after the chinooks which are another category altogether as we've already said, so isn't it a moot point if they try again?
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aesop081
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Thucydides said:
Maybe its just because its hard to determine tone on this site at times but it apears to me that you are dismissing these issues as if they were minor.
AirCanuck said:
Did someone not correct you already on that one ? You can't spell it, you can't fly it ;D
