New Rucksack

[Infanteer]

I'll be keeping my C2 Ruck (or 64 ruck/jump ruck/old guy ruck, etc) the new ruck is not without it's charms, as mentioned a good PT ruck for marches and such without PPE but useless with PPE.

Ditto - the new Rucksack seems to be merely an enlarged day-pack.  It is definately more confortable than the POS 82 pattern ruck, but this can be overtaken by its deficiencies.  The overabundance of straps, its heavy weight while empty, the stupid docking system which makes the additional pouches pretty useless, the overcomplicated compression system. 

Not to mention that it is now TOO big.  Not only is it clumsy to wear, but leaders must enforce strict packing discipline or their soldiers will quickly become overburdened and useless - I watched a company of soldiers use these on a airmobile operation and our American allies thought we looked like a gypsy caravan.  Mind you, this isn't a deficiency of the pack per se, but it shows that having a pack that is too big is not necessarily a good thing and that this factor probably wasn't considered by the design team.  It is almost a big duffel bag with a suspension system - forget about using them with the LAV's....

As you say, it is not without its charms, but is it as good as it could, no, SHOULD be?  No.  I'll stick to my 64 frame or, more likely, look to http://www.kifaru.net/MGhome.htm to provide a better solution.

 

[NL_engineer]

Funny, when you used to hear people ***** about the 82 rucksack they'd mention how it would be great to see a civi pack maker design the next ruck as they "know what they're doing"!!

Are we never happy?

It may not hold as much, it still sucks, but at least it works when you are wearing your FPV and Tac vest.  It (the 82pat) also doesn't cause blisters on your hips, because it doesn't fit while wearing anything but a combat shirt  :

 

[vonGarvin]

Let's remember that the new rucksack fills a new niche role.  The "old" ruck's replacement is the day pack (eg: for 24-48 (?) hrs).  The "new" ruck is for longer.  (See?  I was awake in the classes).

And since nature abhors a vacuum, every CSM out there will soon fill that vacuum with knots, ropes, whatsits and other assorted items.

 

[blacktriangle]

For those of you going towards a kifaru...do you get jacked by your chain of command? Would using some kind of cadpat ruck cover make this a non issue? Right now I have an 82 and a 64 that is getting very old  :'(

 

[OldSolduer]

Mortarman Rockpainter:

Lets be careful on the CSM comments. I for one won't be filling in the space with useless kit.

 

[Jarnhamar]

As you say, it is not without its charms, but is it as good as it could, no, SHOULD be?  No.  I'll stick to my 64 frame or, more likely, look to http://www.kifaru.net/MGhome.htm to provide a better solution.

For the guys who are familiar with Kifaru packs, which one do you think is the idea replacement for the CF rucksack? 

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

First off, caveat: I do not have personal experience with the new CF rucksack (only 82 pattern wireframe POS and jump ruck).  I do, however, have good familitarity with the Kifaru line of rucks, particularly the MMR and the Marauder. The MMR is the smaller version of the EMR. While great for weekend hikes or summer FTX, the MMR is a little too small to handle anything that requires two sleeping bags. So, what makes the EMR/MMR line so good:

1. Aluminum stays, bendable - maybe same problems encountered with the CF ruck and PPE
2. Light, relative to size
3. PALS webbing (incredible flexibilty to task tailor the ruck with molle or kifaru pouches) - but we know this already
4. Floating lid - also acts as an over the shoulder bandoleer pouch w/PALS when removed
5. Large (EMR = full winter ensemble, MMR = three season) internal sleeping bag compartment, with divider
6. Comfortable padding and suspension system (with PALS)
7. Choice of belts that actually carry alot of the weight (with PALS webbing, of course)
8. Relatively easy donning procedure (shoulder straps - belt - delta straps on belt - top shoulder straps to pull in ruck)
9. Easy to access emergency ditching tabs
10. Relatively few straps hanging off of the ruck - all functional to help cinch down any excess space.

Having worn the MMR and the Marauder rucks on a number of occasions, it is true what Kifaru says about their design philosophy - you wear the ruck, not carry it.

 

[noneck]

I bought a couple of yards of CADPAT cordura from a local surplus shop and had a local gearmaker extend a 64 pattern rucksack bag to the top of the 64 frame, add a snow collar, tension straps on each side, PALS on the front and a top lid with a pocket. It's not as big as the new ruck but it fits the 64 frame and can easily carry 60-65 Litres worth of gear.

It has all the pros of the 64 frame and bag (Comfort and flexibility)  with an updated suspension system and pads.  I'll put some pics up as soon as possible.

Noneck

It even passed the CSM test a few weeks back

 

[Infanteer]

the MMR is a little too small to handle anything that requires two sleeping bags.

I guess that is if you are using the CF Sleeping Bags.  A decent off-the-shelf, military bag (such as those carried by the PPCLI Kitshop) come with compression sacks making them the size of a nalgene.  As well, I got an airmatress from MEC that is green and rolls down to roughly the same size.  I can carry my sleeping kit in a C9 pouch.

Modern lightweight, compressible gear can allow you to take a 60L MMR/ZXR along way.  With add on pockets and a piggyback system, you can expand to 80-100 liters and still have the stability and bring a daypack along for the ride too.  The new bag really doesn't have this adaptabilty.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I bought a couple of yards of CADPAT cordura from a local surplus shop and had a local gearmaker extend a 64 pattern rucksack bag to the top of the 64 frame, add a snow collar, tension straps on each side, PALS on the front and a top lid with a pocket. It's not as big as the new ruck but it fits the 64 frame and can easily carry 60-65 Litres worth of gear.

It has all the pros of the 64 frame and bag (Comfort and flexibility)  with an updated suspension system and pads.  I'll put some pics up as soon as possible.

Noneck

It even passed the CSM test a few weeks back

We're obviously paying you too much!  ;D

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Ack. You are right. I was referring to the massive CF sleeping bag system. However, even the 2-piece US Sleeping bag system is a tight fit, despite using a good MEC compression sack. Noting is stopping the user from, as you say, using add-on pouches to expand the flexibility of the pack (say, stuffing most of the sleeping gear in the MMR bottom and the liner for example in a pod pouch or similar.

I love the Kifaru design and am baffled at the short-sightedness of whoever designed the CF Load Carriage System. I look back at some of the things I had to carry as a Jr (rucksack plus a full jerry can and trench tools) and wish I'd had (or allowed to have) the Kifaru system with the Cargo Hauling System. Another ingenious idea - taking advantage of the outstanding hip-belt design.  On that topic - no chafing with the thin, non-padded Kifaru belt on long hikes through pretty rough terrain. An I have bony hips.

One thing I forgot to mention (I believe it has been talked about here) is the Kifaru design philosophy showing through in another way - the piggyback system. I have no problems putting a full load into the MMR and attaching the Marauder to the outside of the main pack. Four clips and the Marauder is ready to be used stand-alone. What a concept! Again, comes down to the PALS design and outside-the-box thinking. These all are items that could have featured in the CF ruck (looking at the Kifaru price range though, maybe the CF was trying to cut costs somewhere - but I'm not convinced considering the similarities in the overall concept of the Kifaru and the CF rucks (one was just thought out much better).

Naturally, as with modular 2nd line gear, packing discipline is key. The EMR especially (like the new CF ruck) can become a monster to carry if loaded with all the bells and whistles.

 

[Sig_Des]

The current rucksack was designed when I was still in 2VP and that was 10 years ago.
That could explain why it was not designed with a TV and body armor in mind.

Yesterday's technology, today!  ;D

In all seriousness, I was issued the new ruck a couple days ago and received the long instruction session on it. I think I spent more time getting qualified on the ruck than I did on the Carl G.

Can't really comment on it any more than anyone else here, as I haven't taken it for a walk, but found the same things as everyone else. I'm sure it'll be great as a kit back with a weight distribution system, but as far as using it in a dismounted role, wearing full-fighting order, I dunno. I'm gonna give it a fair shake, but I still have my 64 pattern ruck to fall back on.

I'm a little wary of a piece of kit that I may need an aide-memoire for; "going up hill, pull these strings, loosen those" etc.

Also, like someone else said, I can use all those straps off it to carry around a full gypsy kitchen.

Another unfortunate is that I've got one of those weird waist sizes where the small size waist-belt is too small, but I don't have very much adjustment play with the medium. No word of a lie, buddy who did the fitting told me I needed to gain some weight around the waist. I don't know how much he expects me to be eating in theatre, but the last time I was in there, I lost quite a few pounds.

But like I said, I'll hump it a bit before I make a final judgement.

 

[vonGarvin]

I guess that is if you are using the CF Sleeping Bags.  A decent off-the-shelf, military bag (such as those carried by the PPCLI Kitshop) come with compression sacks making them the size of a nalgene. 

Um...you vying to become the next PPCLI Kit Shop Officer?  >

 

[Eye In The Sky]

No word of a lie, buddy who did the fitting told me I needed to gain some weight around the waist.

FFS...you are not serious, are you?  Thats the lamest thing along with the "why would you wear your PPE and TV under it?" comment.

 

[NL_engineer]

Well I just found out that I have a BFT tomorrow,l so I guess I will be posting an in depth review, and maybe pictures of how it destroyed my waste :

 

[geo]

Such a waste   (BTW - s/b Waist)

 

[armyvern]

Well I just found out that I have a BFT tomorrow,l so I guess I will be posting an in depth review, and maybe pictures of how it destroyed my waste :

Are you doing it on the figure 8!!??  >

 

[NL_engineer]

Are you doing it on the figure 8!!??  >

No, thankfully were not.  We are going around the base, and the trails.

I may make it to Griffins Friday night if the new ruck doesn't destroy me  :

 

[armyvern]

... I may make it to Griffins Friday night if the new ruck doesn't destroy me  :

I might be there.  8)  So might Big Foot, given our conversation there last night ...

 

[NL_engineer]

Well I did a BFT with the new ruck today, and.... do I need to go on  :

Well the only thing I like in the pack is the top load adjuster straps.  (I had to make at least 1 positive point)

On the down side even without a frag vest, the waist belt kept slipping down;  my hips have blisters, and are rubbed raw from the dam waste belt.  The shoulder straps don't tighten properly when wearing a Tac Vest, the load stabilizers on the waist belt don't work at all (or don't make a noticeable difference), the waist belt takes about half of the weight of the shoulders when it is tight (it loosens on its own  :)

I spent the whole march wishing I had my old one back (so were many others)  :  because at the very least, the old one doesn't destroy your hips  :


That's all I can wright, because my sides hurt more thinking about it  :