New RMC duty dress?

[loyalist]

This isn't about your opinion of RMC. The fact is, like it or not, RMC is a military institution and your "not having heard of rnage weekends" doesn't qualify as an argument. This is about whether you think RMC should have a distinctive duty dress. Thank you to all who have and will contribute, but I will not stand for someone trying to degenerate this into "RMC sucks" or "RMC vs. the World" shouting match. If you dn't want to be here, that's fine with me, but I worked damn hard to be here and stay here.

If you're bored, you can give yourself some drill training in your local parking lot.

 

[McInnes]

Ditch the battle blouse for a V-neck if we're worried about dry cleaning costs. We'll be keeping the trousers anyways, so I really don't see the point in going to DEU's. Also, there is enough elemental separation and bickering as it is. In a unit everyone generally wears the same uniform. The RMC uniform is important in fostering esprit de corps and so forth. We already wear combats and DEU's at least once a week, and during the summers don't even see our RMC uniforms so I fail to see how having a distinctive uniform somehow makes OCdt's further alienated from the CF. And yes, we have range weekends, and there are military activities and training available through outside clubs, such as orienteering, sandhurst, shooting, etc if you feel the need to go above and beyond the requirments provided. BTW net income is approx $500 a month I believe.

 

[Daidalous]

$500 a month??  Is that after tax,  mess dues,  R&Q and dry cleaning?

 

[loyalist]

After dues and mess dues (except mess dinners), tax ( I think), dry cleaning for RMC uniforms, bu not DEUs
I don't really have much to spend money on - no car, no wife, no girlfiend, no kids and no pets, and given how busy you can get here between athletics, acedemics and all the military jazz, there's not much to waste money on. A bike, maybe?
  Keep in mind that while hosuing here is cheaper, it's not your standard PMQ that we're paying for, You're paying for half a room with space for uniforms, a bed and a desk. Overall, though, the culture and experince, along with the quality of quarters (we dont get much space or privacy, but the rooms are nice, neat and effiecient, more or less depending which set of lines you're in), it's a good quality of life, even if the rooms go from hot to cod to hot in Fort Sauve.

A new option is being examined of taking a page from the Australians, as they have good-looking DEU-like uniforms that are completely washable. I'm all for it, as they'd be cheaper than DEUs and stay with the traditions of RMC.

 

[Daidalous]

Do you get to claim all of you school expenses in RMC as a tax right off?  Ie book, paper,r pens, computer.  etc..... Or do they prevent you from doing that as your tuition is paid for?

 

[ZipperHead]

I'm not sure how often everyone here drycleans their DEU, but I have determined that it is one of the biggest scams ever (must have been cooked up by the Liberals  ;D ). I know people that dry clean their uniform everytime they wear it. Unless you are a big fan of rolling around in the mud, or eat like a Neanderthal, you don't need to dry clean it that often.

I used to be like the people I mentioned (dryclean all the time). I then realized the futility of it, as it seemed that it would look WORSE after I received it than before I brought it in. When I was in Cornwallis on recruit training, we were all about cutting corners (wasn't everyone?) and we thought we would be clever by sending our work dress (good ol' bus driver outfit) into the dry cleaner with our DEU. I'm pretty convinced that buddy drove around with our uniforms in his van, got 'em good and dusty, and then charged us for the honour. And then it's kind of lame to blame the drycleaner when you get a blast from the Master Jack for a shitty uniform.

Anyway, a little prevention (folding your pants and putting them on a hangar vs throwing them on the floor, and hanging jacket on hangar rather than dangle over chair) and a little spray bottle of water and a stiff brush to remove lunch goes a long way to keeping money in your pocket, and not in the drycleaners. I do know of a guy who threw his DEU into the washer and dryer (whilst drunk) after doing the liquid laugh all over himself. They didn't get destroyed, but I wouldn't advise it.

I would be all over a dress uniform that you could throw in the wash, but I'm tellin' ya, the dry clean DEU is a Liberal scam!!!

As for the CUA covering drycleaning (or boot polish, or haircuts, etc) Armyvern already covered it (damn her!!! because I wanted to shatter that myth). A definite Top 10 peeve of mine was guys saying that that's what CUA was for. That's what your salary is for. There are people who claim up to $500 a year (with receipts) on their taxes for "Military Grooming" under miscellaneous expenses. I tried it once, but didn't have receipts (who keeps a receipt for a tin of polish?) as a friend of mine said "You don't need them!" Tell that to the CCRA who decided to audit me. YMMV....

Al

 

[Neill McKay]

Anyway, a little prevention (folding your pants and putting them on a hangar vs throwing them on the floor, and hanging jacket on hangar rather than dangle over chair) and a little spray bottle of water and a stiff brush to remove lunch goes a long way to keeping money in your pocket, and not in the drycleaners.

Definitely good advice.  Another good thing to do is to leave it out of the closet, on hangers, for a day or so after you wear it to allow it to air out and dry off.

Wool clothing treated this way can easily go for quite a few days' wear between cleanings.  The amount of polyester in DEUs would, I think, make it necessary to have them cleaned more often (since it doesn't breathe as well as wool, you sweat more, it doesn't air out as well, etc.), but certainly not every time they're worn.

 

[Daidalous]

You just figured out one of the biggest secrets.  I know that when I did basic, the MCpl would come through bark off about your kit being messed up.  Unless he brought the piece of kit right up to your face, you did a visual over it, and if you found nothing put it back.  Most of the time, on the next inspection they would not even mention the kit they went off about, and you never changed anything to it.  But if they pull say your shirt out again and asked why did you not clean this?  Well you F'd up and take your lumps

 

[armyvern]

As for the CUA covering drycleaning (or boot polish, or haircuts, etc) Armyvern already covered it (damn her!!! because I wanted to shatter that myth).

You may sentence me to 8 more years in 'purgatory' for this. I however, sentence you to disbarment from the MattG Site for being too slow!!  ;D

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[Mick]

Piper, RMC does indeed have range weekends, in addition to many professional development seminars, sports weekends, and drill practices/parades.  Other military activities DURING THE WINTER include writing PDRs, leadership positions and general duties within the Cadet Wing, running all Cadet activites at the College, and EPT (Environmental Phase Training) prior to leaving for summer trg.

Back to the original point of this thread:  RMC leadership is considering the following options regarding dress:
1. status quo
2. combats/ NCDs/ flight suits as dress of the day, Scarlets retained for ceremonial dress (#4 patrols kept, possibly)
3. DEU (3b, 3c) as dress of the day, Scarlets retained for ceremonial dress (# 4 patrols kept, possibly)

None of these changes would come into effect until the fall of '06.

As for having to pay for DEU drycleaning...not a big deal; we only wear them once a month at most.

And NO, RMC students cannot claim any education / tuition costs on their taxes.

Cheers.

 

[Sailing Instructor]

As a non-RMC student, I can never know the comfort level of the battle blouse, &c.  However, I will still make an argument from what I can know.  This is one of the few uniforms left that are symbols of a particular unit's identity.  To get rid of this for the sake of dry cleaning would be to let the costs outweigh the benefits. 

First, you should not have to dryclean the things that often.  Drycleaning is more damaging to clothes than leaving them dirty, thus the only rationale for doing this is to get rid of dirt that would mitigate the benefits of wearing the clothes (i.e. the clothes positively stink with sweat, they have unslightly stains).  From what I know of inspections, some lint-brushing and spot cleaning of spattering on trouser cuffs (from winter slush) will suffice for a pass.  (Are the cuffs on No 5's tucked in and bloused?)  If you have wrinkles, you are not hanging up your clothes.  After one good pressing (even by yourself), they should be fine.  The fact that poly-wool blends will keep their wrinkles longer is a moot point as the DEUs are a poly-wool blend (if no 5's are not pure wool, as I am led to believe by previous posts).

Secondly, sitting in class all day does not require combats/flightsuits.  Just because civvy university students have taken to such abombinations as pyjama-wearing, does not mean the CF needs to give up all appearances for comfort.  Ironically, the no5's are old combats anyway and should be comfortable.

Thirdly, the trousers are held up with suspenders.  You are, therefore, enjoying the most comfortable lower-half of a CF uniform that you will never experience after RMC, with the exception of mess dinners. 

Thus, to toss away this uniform in favour of another that will not symbolise the tradtion would be a mistake because the reasons in favour of change do not outweigh the conservative argument.

 

[GO!!!]

Thirdly, the trousers are held up with suspenders.  You are, therefore, enjoying the most comfortable lower-half of a CF uniform that you will never experience after RMC, with the exception of mess dinners. 

I see you have never experienced the joy associated with cbt pants, held up with suspenders, sans underwear and belt. Quite......liberating, especially in the summer months!

 

[loyalist]

The no.5 pants are generally disliked as part of a duty dress due to their pockets, which can hold little more than a room keycard and your student ID. No.5's are generally comfortable, some people fenuinely hate the battle blouse, though and the chin strap on tje kepi is a real nusance. All in all, I think they're pretty comfortable and professional-looking. I just wish we didn't have a chin strap on our kepi!

 

[DG-41]

What, and get rid of the uber-sexy CMC chinstrap tanline?

I think that the distinctive CMC uniforms are a good way to emphasise that RMC is its own little world, partially removed from the operational CF.

The CWC is effectively a Col. when he/she graduates, but the day after graduation, both the former CWC and the lowliest slasher are equals - and equally inexperienced when it comes to their actual trade. The uniform helps build this distinction, and helps make the transition from the artificial Disneyland of RMC to the reality of the real CF a little easier.

Conversely, there is value to the College's internal "rank" structure of Year and Position. Adopting a "real" uniform like DEUs or combats means adopting the CMC rank insignia to the real uniform - and then you have potential confusion when somebody from the real world encouters CMC insignia.

I know from personal experience that a COMSEC in #4 is easily mistaken for a US Marine Captain - no sense in making things any worse.

DG 

 

[McInnes]

Getting rid of the chinstrap would equal hell on a windy day, which here on the peninsula, is basically a bloody storm at least once a week.

 

[Mick]

The whole point of getting rid of No.5 does not have anything to do with saving on drycleaning or comfort (although winter dress does suck). 

The Commandant has long wanted (he was previously Director of Cadets) to realign RMC to become more reflective of the CF in general.  In effect he DOESN'T want the College to be its own little world.

As for tradition, Scarlets (and maybe No. 4s) WILL definitely be kept, for use during formal or ceremonial occasions.

I don't believe that the loss of everyday rank insignia (as worn on 5s) will have any effect on the Wing: UTPNCMs here follow a similar chain of command (ie Squadron Senior, Flight Leaders) while wearing No 3s everyday, without any special insignia.  Furthermore, 1st Years are required to memorize the top College positions as well as those in their sqn chain of command.  Everyone KNOWS who their Section Commanders, Flight Leaders, and Sqn Seniors are, with or without insignia.

I think an easy and cheap solution would be CADPAT as daily dress (we wear it every Wednesday already) with a common black beret with CMC cap badge.  Everyone, regardless of occupation or environment has them, and a black beret would mirror the headdress worn by the Old Brigade already, and would retain a small measure of uniformity.

Just my 2 cents.