New RMC duty dress?

[GO!!!]

That may be true of that Unit.  Not all Units do the same.  The RCR and PPCLI also require all their members to pay Regimental Dues, which I would imagine with time would far out do the cost that RMC Cadets may be complaining about.

They do not compell their members to pay monthly Regimental Dues, until they are Senior NCOs (voluntary payment) or Officers, as is the practice with the Infantry Regiments.

George, these statements appear to contradict each other - I know that in my unit, we are shaken down by the mafia strongly encouraged by a dedicated cadre of SNCOs to voluntarily contribute with a monthly deduction.

Go, I'm curious as to exactly which items above your Unit personnel have to purchase. The first 3 you have listed are issued by Clothing Stores. CUA disappearing plays no role, as these items are also exchangeable.
As to the last 3 you have listed, again they are optional (as the standard Army Lions, Air Eagles and Naval Anchors/DEU belt are issued) but as Daidalous puts it "strongly encouraged."

In Edmonton, they tell us to "see your regimental kitshop".

And I would love to see the fireworks when someone showed up to a DEU event wearing the CF Lion buttons, and saying "Why yes you did suggest that I buy the 40$ set from the kitshop RSM, but I chose not to"  ;D

 

[R031button]

The argument against that is that it would encourage divisions between the various elements at the college - one of the main reasons for having a distinctive RMC uniform. Also, it is not very popular wtih cadets as we'd have to bear dry-cleaning costs off our own salaries - which, as net salaries, aren't spectaculr to begin.

Man, I'm a student, I do a full course load. In addition to that I'm a reservist and I work another job at the same time. I don't come close to a grand a month, and i still pay for my own food, clothes, washing and drying. So don't complain about what your getting at RMC, your getting a good ride man... err.... sir. I envy you... and then I see you looking like a bellhop  :blotto:

 

[GO!!!]

Man, I'm a student, I do a full course load. In addition to that I'm a reservist and I work another job at the same time. I don't come close to a grand a month, and i still pay for my own food, clothes, washing and drying. So don't complain about what your getting at RMC, your getting a good ride man... err.... sir. I envy you... and then I see you looking like a bellhop  :blotto:

AMEN.

(and you don't need to call them "sir" until they show up as a Pl Comd - until then you can point and laugh!)

 

[GO!!!]

Lets not forget that the Cpls and up in the platoon all make more than their junior officer, and are signed to shorter contracts.

 

[beach_bum]

Many members of the CF (outside of RMC) have to wear DEUs regularly and pay for them to be cleaned.  Prime example is the recruiting centre.  During the time I worked there, we had to wear DEUs almost every day.  Obviously, we needed to clean them, and I can guarantee that I spent more than $50 a month on that.  That came straight out of my pocket as well.  No sympathy here.

 

[R031button]

Lets not forget that the Cpls and up in the platoon all make more than their junior officer, and are signed to shorter contracts.

yeah but those Cpl's didn't get a 4 year degree with a job, room, and board tossed in to sweeten the deal, which i'd guesse to we worth at least $75,000, not counting the benifits of that piece of paper

 

[George Wallace]

Many members of the CF (outside of RMC) have to wear DEUs regularly and pay for them to be cleaned.  Prime example is the recruiting centre.  During the time I worked there, we had to wear DEUs almost every day.  Obviously, we needed to clean them, and I can guarantee that I spent more than $50 a month on that.  That came straight out of my pocket as well.  No sympathy here.

I am getting the feeling that this discussion is now taking the semblance of a parent disciplining a child on the responsible use of their allowance.  The child is trying to remain in the parents graces and riding on their coat tails in order to avoid the use of their allowance to buy or maintain articles in their wardrobe, previously purchased by their parents in the past.  Now they have matured and are being weened off the tit, and they are whining about it.

It is a fact that the CF is now into Cost Accounting in a big way and every penny is accounted for.  I am sure everyone will agree that this had to eventually cascade down to the 'students' at RMC.

 

[Strike]

Okay, how do you see an OCdt taking home $1000/month?  The most they would get paid is $1412/month.  Now, subtract taxes, cost of shacks and food, and that wonderful $50/month in mess fees (I think we paid $45 when I was there) and you're lucky to see $350/ paycheck in your pocket.  This will already be used for phone bill, supplies (paper, pens, a half decent calculator), computer, etc, and you barely have enough to take someone out to dinner and a movie.

Add to this that the OR likes to take away any overpayments right around Christmas time.  It's not enough to go on and any little extra burden adds to an already stressed life.

 

[Strike]

Know how much my room and board costs?

If you live in shacks, probably about the same amount that they pay.  If you don't than that is your own choice for paying that much.

 

[Strike]

...like not having to wear a uniform every day that needs to be dry cleaned.  ;D

 

[Daidalous]

What I do not understand is why RMC students would complain about dry cleaning bills.  I understand that Officer Cadets are not making alot of money.  So was ever enlisted personwho has been in for more than 10 years when they first joined .  I know they make less than a Pte while in RMC, but once they get out it is all gravy from there, with no student loans .

Ref is right here  http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/media/pdf/other/RegularForcePay.pdf

  A Level 1 Pte makes $2421 a month  while a Basic Officer Cadet makes $1328. Sure that is a big difference.  BUT  once you obtain your so call career rank.  A Cpl 4  makes $4303 or  Spec 2 $5017 While a Capt 4  makes $6051 WOW  with level 10 at $6591  with no specail pay what ever.  Suck it up for only 4 years,  once you graduate your pay goes up to $3806.  Welcome to Cpl pay range. 

In the words of my first Mcpl.    "They underpay officers cadets so they know what it's like to live like a young Pte."

 

[GO!!!]

I must add my voice to those who think OCdts have nothing to complain about - again.

My wife, myself and all of my friends who stayed in University were/are all saddled with enormous student loans - try 15 - 55,000!

It takes many students in excess of a decade to pay off these loans.

You are given your education, in exchange for five to seven years of guaranteed employment in an above - average paying job for entry level undergrad degrees. I do my university courses in my off time, and I have to pay for them - plus books. If I pass, the military will re-imburse me, when they are damn good and ready.

You are paid to go to school for free - and are guaranteed a job on graduation - how are you still complaining?

This does not include the free medical and dental, no hassle of finding a summer job, missing a changed registration deadline, finding inaccessible or apathetic profs,  or the joy of commuting from a crappy part of town to a sprawling campus - you have a great arrangement, and a bright future, so take your complaints about your five dollar dry cleaning bill and stuff it.  :-*

 

[big_johnson1]

And I'd like to tell ALL students to stop complaning. You (we) all chose to be where you are, you know that university (civvie or RMC) is an investment that requires some hardship but has a good payoff in the end. Suck it up. If you don't want to suffer through the long commute or the crappy housing or the endless studying, go contribute to society in another way. Get a job as a tradesperson. Nothing wrong with that. But don't expect tears because no one forces anyone into university.

 

[R031button]

You realize that trades courses are usually the same money as a univeristy degree right? And that tools and steel toed boots don't come cheap, espeically when you have to buy books along with them. Trades is by no means the alternate way to save more money.

 

[loyalist]

..whoa. I think that i've misinterpreted.

I have nmot been complaining, I merely listed the points brought up in the discussion, including dry-cleaning costs. Of course, I'm welcomed by the usual "everybodt hates the ring-knockers" sitcom-esque declaration about how we either get paid too much, have it too easy, aren't really students,  dont get piad all that much but damn well deserve not to, or some civvie U guy rambling off about how it sucks to be at RMC because you can skip the gym and basically do no military training all winter.

I was hoping for more opinions about what non-RMCers thought about the College having a different duty dress than everyone else. I really cna't complain about our pay, I don't have a car, outstanding debts or any expensive hobbies. on the issues of a duty dress - i'm really on the fence baout this one, and it looks like they're going to drop the No.5's. The end of an era,I guess, and I sort of mourn for the loss of yet another RMC tradition.

 

[Daidalous]

Keep the one you have now.  All a unit or formation has is it's heritage, and that dress uniform is your heritage.

 

[geo]

If RMC is paying for the dry cleaning of your "RMC duty dress" uniform.....
don't look at a gift horse in the mouth - continue to use em!

 

[loyalist]

I reiterate that I was listing the arguments. Salaries are part of the argument. As I've said, I'd really have no problem with paying the costs of DEU dry-cleaning.

Anyhow, keep in mind that it's usually not to easy for an RMCer to relax and unwind on a Wednesday .

The two schools of thought are, really:
1) RMC should be run like a regular CF regiment. We's still have our regimental uniforms (scarlets, no.4's - a sort of less formal garrison dress) and the RMC PT kit. But regular CF regiments do day-to-day activities in combats/DEU, after all, we're CF first, RMC second.

2) RMC is by it's very nature, unique. It always has been unique, what we do is unique and it only makes sense to have unique duty uniforms! Sometimes the DoD is combats/DEU. Since we have avery unique role, RMC first, CF second.


Really, I'm very much on the fence, as I'm equally proud to be in the CF and RMC, plus, there's nothing I can do about it, so I'll just learn as much as I can and roll with it.

 

[Daidalous]

No RMC should not be run like regular CF regiments.  People in regiments are trained personal, Troops in RMC have completed there training.  RMC should be run as a training environment, because you are training.

 

[Strike]

You guys don't do any military training all winter either.

Right, because parades, PD lecture weekends, hitting the ranges, etc, are NOT considered military training.  If you mean they don't do courses such as phase training, you are right.  But they do get a helluva lot of PD and staff stuff out of the way as well as most of the common training require of an officer.