New PT Test Requirements...Thoughts?

[orange.paint]

I see this as the army shooting itself in the foot.These people don't have the dedicationto make themselves fit for the army to begin with.Now keeping that in mind look at pictures of yourself in battleschool 5-10-25 yrs ago.Nothing but skin bone and lean muscle mass.Wanting to do the job and fearing falling out and becoming the guy who cannot keep up with his peers.

I'm really surprised that Mr Hillier is standing for this.He came in with such vigor to revamp the Canadian army into a fighting force.No promotions if you obese,

Anyone remember "fit to fight"???

Basically this program is to bring people who couldn't meet the very minimal physical standards  Up to the very very minimum standards.That's not acceptable in my opinion.
We have discussed the lack of PT in the army.Disgust in the lack of effort by trained soldiers to maintain their fitness.These were soldiers that had at one time or another actually met the minimal.So what does a warrior platoon CPL look like in 4 years?

Honestly this army is getting worse and worse.First Canadian status not needed and now people who meet minimal standards are welcome.

Sounds a whole lot like WELFARE to me.How about every fat person join up for warrior platoon get 90 days pay lose 20 pounds and get out?Hell lets start a "biggest loser warrior platoon edition."

What happens when they finally do graduate and get to the regiment?
"you cant kick me out cause im fat,its against my human rights!"And I don't care if someone says it files under job performance because I have seen it with my own two eyes.So where does that leave us?Paying 600-700 fat trooper/privates/craftsman/sapper a yearly salary(or A/B class time) letting them do PT at night with PSP while boys are bagged in the field.While your doing RAPZ ops somewhere he just got home from "sweating to the oldies" and swung by KFC (but got the diet coke).And yes I've seen tubby get out of field to do this.

Or do we place them in Gucci positions.Like QM or someother more senior position?Because now at the regiment they don't have huggy feely french PSP at st jean to help them make choices in food and exercise,and their back to square one.

Now I know some will proably benefit from education/training and go on to be excellent fit capable troops.Great.

Now how do you fell about your civilian friends knowing about stuff like this?Me down right embarrassed!What if you were a chef in a restaurant who met the requirements to get the job then they lowered the standard for sous chef to anyone who has flipped burgers at McDonald's?

I am down right discusted.I HOPE news papers pick this up and RUN WITH IT.Its discusting and tax payers shouldn't stand for it.Its their money they are paying for their protection.These troops may be the snr NCO's that lead the troops to protect us when we are old grey and unable.

This isn't just another fitness rant guys I am just truly discusted.
(As I know I have ranted over it before.)

 

[17thRecceSgt]

RCAC_011,

Breathe buddy BREATHE.  ;D

If they don't make the EXPRES or "standard" in 90 days, they go back home to enjoy Employee Meals at whatever shop they work at in Junkfood Alley.

;D

 

[George Wallace]

rcac_011

Really?  Aren't you just a special person.  I wonder what Army you really joined.  Seems to me that this is nothing new; in fact it is an improvement.  Now they are being put into a 'Remedial Program' where before they just moved upward in the system.  Just look at yourself as one such example.  What physical fitness level were you at when you joined and what level have you managed to attain and maintain since joining.

As for your rant - whatever!  We have seen you make those noises before, and I guess we still haven't heard the last of them.

 

[GAP]

rcac_011 & klc....I applaud the fact you were fit enough to be accepted....the CF is one the few who do require pre-application fitness, and while I don't know for sure, it was probably instituted at a time when they had the luxury of picking and choosing their candidates.

I was, without realizing it, fit when I joined the Marines, and never really had difficulties with the physical side of it, but there were many in my boot platoon who were not fit and they worked like hell to get there. Like I said before, out of 60-65 guys, we generally only lost 2 or 3 to the Fat Farm, the rest toned up.

This does not diminish the CF, it just inserts a minor step. A lot of good people who would not have been accepted otherwise are going to come out of this move.

my 1 cent, I need the other

 

[Leo791989]

My 2 cents worth:

Apart from failing my ACS in Trenton for Pilot I also failed my PT test because of push ups. I did 16 push ups instead of 19. Now lets say I did pass the ACS and everything else was good, CF would've refused me few months back because I failed the PT test even though i can run a 10 k in 28min 12secs and can do 75 sit ups in one minute. But if the situation was now it would've been easier for me to do that. And now you're telling me that just cos I can't do 3 more push ups I am not goin to be a good pilot..gotta be kidding me. I think it's great that CF is taking this step. This will help good qualified candidates to meet the standards even if it's via warrior platoon or whatever.

 

[Meridian]

Leo - assuming you have the dedication and training knowhow to run well (yes, a big assumption), you should be able to take the 2-3 months that the forces would give youin uniform to get fit out of it.

That said, if its a numbers game (ie not losing good candidates who need one more month of fitness training but who would miss a recruitment cycle/etc) maybe its a good thing.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Aside from everything else folks...

This IS the new policy ( Kincanucks word is good enough for me).

So lets focus on the steak, and forget about the peas.

NCOs and officers are expected to

1.  Follow orders.
2.  Make the best out of whatever they are given.
3.  Know when to b$$tch and moan, when to stop and get on with it.

I don't know, but I doubt there is going to be a vote on this, whether we want there to be or not.

This is like everything else we deal with.  There are good parts to it.  There are bad parts to it.  As NCOs and Officers, we are expected to exploit the good parts, and miminize the impact of the bad parts. 

;D

 

[Journeyman]

even though i can run a 10 k in 28min 12secs

Really? Then I'd suggest you're wasting your time in the CF anyway. After all, the 2004 Olympic Gold Medal 10K time was 27:05.101 Perhaps a bit more training and you'd have an athletic career instead.

-----------------------------
1. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics. I'm sure they're not bullshitting.

 

[orange.paint]

rcac_011

Really?  Aren't you just a special person.  I wonder what Army you really joined.  Seems to me that this is nothing new; in fact it is an improvement.  Now they are being put into a 'Remedial Program' where before they just moved upward in the system.  Just look at yourself as one such example.  What physical fitness level were you at when you joined and what level have you managed to attain and maintain since joining.

As for your rant - whatever!  We have seen you make those noises before, and I guess we still haven't heard the last of them.

No not special at all George.I think of myself as an AVERAGE troop.We all have our strength's and weaknesses no doubt.Some people are poor at map and compass or have drug problems etc.What army did I join?The Canadian army with a minimum standard in which I had to meet to join, and thanks to the army and other NCM's and NCO's I have improved my fitness.Am I the most fit guy in the world?Hell no!Theres always someone who will beat you.

I think its a waste of our money to "try" to train someone up.We lose enough in the training system from quiting/med etc who have met the current standard.I hate to see the army pay these guys to get in shape then they decide half way through basic"this isn't for me" theres 90 days minimum pay.

The standards are quite low.I know most of our parents in their 60-70's could do the base minimum.

As for the rant,im just discussing in an open forum my thought on this particular subject.Everyone is entitled to their views.And this one is mine.I don't find it malicious I just don't understand why we would waste money like this.If they can't do it on their own it shows lack of drive and determination to enter the army.Sure some people fail once,but the ones who really want in will go back and strive to be better.Some will quit the first time.This isn't an army of lets go for a 2.5 km run anymore,Or "death before dismount".

And I'm not saying large people are not in shape either!I've seen some really big lads kick ass running and especially at rucking up.One guy looked like a sack of poo but yet he had no off switch.

I was, without realizing it, fit when I joined the Marines, and never really had difficulties with the physical side of it, but there were many in my boot platoon who were not fit and they worked like hell to get there. Like I said before, out of 60-65 guys, we generally only lost 2 or 3 to the Fat Farm, the rest toned up.

This does not diminish the CF, it just inserts a minor step. A lot of good people who would not have been accepted otherwise are going to come out of this move.

my 1 cent, I need the other

As most of us are GAP.At least in the combat arms trades.Not that we can really compare a battle school in meaford to marine boot camp,but yes most of us were fit enough coming off the street.
I hope your right about it not diminishing the CF.Although I hate it when civilians were talking about "only doing 10 push-ups" (remember that whole "drop and give me ...ahhh....10?"that was in the papers not too long ago.That's a black eye for the army in my opinion.Not everyone has to me marathon runners or body builders.Meet the minimum standards and your in.

If you cant get in shape to join the army,you proably really don't want it real bad.We had a guy on my basic who was huge.Over 300 pounds,had CF shirts made for him (I think it was a 25 neck or something).Anyway he met the standards and now he continued to develop himself into a guy you wouldn't even recognise.Why?Dedication.He worked hard to get to the minimum (without help)and continued once he got in.That's what the minimum is designed for why get rid of it.

Sorry if I offended anyone but that's just my opinion.

Gapon't the US military run free PT sessions at the recruitment centers for candidates who need a little work prior to the army spending money on them?

 

[Garett]

I just found this out a few weeks ago, I think its a good idea because prior to this new policy recruits were automatically released if they failed the shuttle run but they were retained if they failed any of the other three tests.  For most it would be their first time taking this test.  Also I don't consider it a fair test because women are held to a much lower standard (even though this test has nothing to do with strength).  I'd have a hard time telling a man who failed by .5 when he needed a 6 that he was going to be kicked out when the women standing next to him only got a 4 but she is being retained.  The guy could of just have had a bad day and he would be getting kicked out after a few days in the CF, after many hours of work by the recruiting staff and hundreds of dollars of travel expenses.

Maybe my attitude will change in the next couple months due to my next tasking.

 

[GAP]

Gapon't the US military run free PT sessions at the recruitment centers for candidates who need a little work prior to the army spending money on them?

I think they started that when it went over to an all volunteer force. Whether the fitness step is before, or after, they have been successful in getting their people fit and to that I give full credit to the Sr. NCO's who were our drill instructors...awesome, dedicate personnel, only we were sweating too much at the time to apprecite it.

Don't ever think the CF fitness regime is any less than the Marines...the CF has nothing to apologize for in quality 

 

[Infanteer]

I too think this is a good idea - people sit around in PAT Platoon for 2-4 months waiting for a release anyways, so you may as well have them doing something productive.  If in the end we get 70-100 trainable, basic trained soldiers (for the cost of 3 months in "warrior platoon") who otherwise would have been sent back to civvie street, then so be it.

I believe the US does this well - my buddy told me he didn't do his PT test until he hit Benning; if he failed he would have been put through a similar program.  Any US military pers can correct me, but this is what I recall.

 

[orange.paint]

Don't ever think the CF fitness regime is any less than the Marines...the CF has nothing to apologize for in quality 

More towards the marines at that time.Sort of like how our older guys tell us how easy we had it in comparison to them.Human rights and all that stuff.

 

[aesop081]

My 2 cents worth:

. And now you're telling me that just cos I can't do 3 more push ups I am not goin to be a good pilot..gotta be kidding me.

:crybaby:

 

[orange.paint]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/02/20/struggling_for_recruits_army_relaxes_its_rules/?page=1


http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17878
Story on similar thing is US army.

NOTE: "I'm going to hit the gym even harder," Kimball said. "Whatever it takes, I'll do it."

  -------

 

[GAP]

More towards the marines at that time.Sort of like how our older guys tell us how easy we had it in comparison to them.Human rights and all that stuff.

At the start of basic you were not human...therefore human rights did not exist for you. If you made the error of directing your speech to the DI and using the noun of "you", well there was a heavy price. Many's a Marine who has been questioned as to whether he considered the DI a female sheep (read ewe) and that the good for nothing, dirty little private wanted to do nasty, freaky things to the said DI. (Note: this is said in a very, very loud, spittle inflected voice occurring about two inches from private's face while being lifted by his throat a meager 4 inches off the ground)

Human rights....didn't know they existed until the liberals got in power. go figure

 

[derael]

:crybaby:

+1

 

[WannaBeFlyer]

And now you're telling me that just cos I can't do 3 more push ups I am not goin to be a good pilot..gotta be kidding me.

Good grief. Push ups, in my humble opinion, have GOT to be the easiest thing you will be tested on during your long journey towards earning your wings. I think it says a lot personally...

 

[Clarkey]

Alot of different points of view on this, and to be honest my view has swung towards mud's point of view. I never realised that recruits being sent home were posted in a PAT platoon for around 3 months before shipped off. If that's the case, PT the buggers for 3 months not much point of them sitting around on their hands. When they are fit then give them the choice you still want to go home then fine stamp their papers, if not then in you go. I expect most would ruck up, especially with the boost in confidence after the training and fitness level increase. Plus this may be a deterrent to the recruits in BMQ just trying to slip by, knowing that if they quit or fail they have to spend the next 3 months training hardcore just to go home, not an easy out like what I understand a PAT platoon to be....hmmm....maybe that would make the new recruits try extra harder in BMQ.

Clarkey

 

[George Wallace]

it could also be argued that, since every recruit is given a package that details the standards that will be expected of you, if you fail to achieve the extremely low standard, you lack the initiative and discipline to make it through Basic at all, and that hanging onto a recruit at that point is just throwing money away that could be better used elsewhere.
none of which is required. Push-ups, sit-ups, chin-ups, and running. No gym or instructor required.

Good points.  I am sure that both rcac_011 and I can agree on those.