New PT Test Requirements...Thoughts?

[ready to go]

Note: The Canadian Forces Applicant Physical Fitness Test is eliminated from the selection process for the Regular Force effective October 1, 2006. The Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School will be responsible for assessing physical fitness and will implement a program to assist new enrolees to each an acceptable level of physical fitness prior to commencing basic training. Until further notice, the test will remain in the selection process for Reserve applicants. The Guide to physical fitness remains available for applicants wishing to self-evaluate and increase their physical fitness level.

Personally I think it's a good idea for 2 reasons:

a) It will not deter potential applicants based on previous fitness levels. I like the fact that CFLRS will be responsible for getting those who want to join up to par. A LOT of people need that kick in the butt.

b) Largely because of a), it speeds up the recruiting process. Every little bit helps in that respect.

 

[Asher]

Heres a thought...
I've seen some over weight, out of shape people in the military but to take out the Expres test to get in just blows my mind!!

 

[Kat Stevens]

I signed in 79, and didn't need a PT test to join.  This has been hammered to death.

 

[Sig_Des]

13 pages of people's thoughts here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/50877.0.html

A little slow on the gun there, Asher 

 

[Jed]

I just got an email where they need folks from the 50 to 60 crowd to gather in Petawawa to research fitness capabilty / standards for the older military folk. Apparently they have to go Army wide,( CF wide ?) to get a big enough database established. I imagine we will need this info as our CF expands to take on people from 55 to 60, especially in the Cbt Arms roles.

 

[geo]

Jed,
got the same email................

Good day,

At the request of Armed Forces Council, the CMP directed the CFPSA (DHPHP) to conduct a research study, the MPFS 50 Years and Older Research Study, for the purpose of developing and validating the Minimum Physical Fitness Standards (MPFS) for CF members 50 years and older.  This study requires participation from CF members from a variety of fitness backgrounds and MOCs. 

Data collection will be conducted at CFB Petawawa and volunteers are requested for either of the following two dates:

a.    1900hrs on 28 Nov 06 to 1600hrs on 1 Dec 06; and,

b.    1000hrs on 4 Dec 06 to 1200hrs on 7 Dec 06. 

The study will be conducted in English and thus any available English speaking CF members from 50 to 60 years are requested to volunteer to participate in this important study. 

The information enclosed in the attached document briefly explains the study and provides an explanation for the direction of the study. Please confirm your availability to participate in the study and direct all questions to the Project Coordinator

 

[geo]

PARTICIPANT RECRUITMENT FOR MPFS
50 TO 60 YEARS OF AGE RESEARCH STUDY

1. At the request of Armed Forces Council, the CMP directed the CFPSA (DHPHP) to conduct a research study, the MPFS 50 Years and Older Research Study, for the purpose of developing and validating the Minimum Physical Fitness Standards (MPFS) for CF members 50 years and older.  This study will be conducted in English and will include CF members from 50 to 60 Years of age.  Your name has been provided to the CFPSA because you meet the age requirements for inclusion in the study. 

2. The MPFS 50 to 60 Years of Age Research Study will seek to determine the MPFS for the CF EXPRES test that correspond to a CF member’s ability to complete the CF’s Five Common Tasks.  This study will be a replication of research done in 1988 to develop the MPFS for the CF EXPRES test.  The Five Common Tasks are Bona Fide Occupational Requirements (BFOR) are defined as the Land Evacuation, Sea Evacuation, Low High Crawl, Entrenchment Dig, and Sandbag Carry.

3. Participation in this study is completely voluntary.  Should you choose to participate you may terminate your participation at any time and / or remove yourself at any time from the entire study.  All participants in this study will be on duty status and will be provided with rations, quarters, temporary duty allowance (TD), mileage and/or shuttle (as per Treasury Board guidelines), and Subject Compensation as per QR & O 205.48 in the amount of $15.00 per half day of testing (total $90.00 for 3 days). 

4. There are no minimum physical fitness requirements for participation in the study.  All available and willing personnel may be considered for inclusion.  In fact, it is imperative that participants in the study display a range of fitness levels.  Therefore, the Project Coordinator will strive to ensure that equal representation from every quartile of physical fitness capabilities are represented in the study (i.e. 0-25 percentile, 26-50 percentile, 51-75 percentile, and 76 to 100 percentile.)  There will not be any career implications based upon results in the study as all testing results will remain completely anonymous.

5. Experimental sessions will be conducted in English and thus all volunteers in the study must be fluent in English comprehension.  Each testing day will consist of no more than one testing session in the morning or afternoon periods.  Each session will consist of one component of research testing (i.e. CF EXPRES test, a Land Evacuation, a Sea Evacuation, a Low High Crawl, an Entrenchment Dig, and Sandbag Carry).

6. The MPFS 50 to 60 Year Old Study Project Coordinator, Ms. Sarah Flanagan, will contact all potential participants to determine willingness to participate, participation availability, provide further information, and answer any questions in regards to the study.

7. Your consideration for participation in this project is valued and appreciated.  As a participant in the MPFS 50 to 60 Year Old Study you will be playing an important role in the development of physical fitness programs and testing methods for the optimization of safety of CF members while on deployable missions both at home in Canada and Abroad.  Please feel free to contact the Project Coordinator at (613) 992-1879, flanagan.sa@forces.gc.ca should your require any further information

 

[orange.paint]

4. There are no minimum physical fitness requirements for participation in the study.  All available and willing personnel may be considered for inclusion.  In fact, it is imperative that participants in the study display a range of fitness levels.  Therefore, the Project Coordinator will strive to ensure that equal representation from every quartile of physical fitness capabilities are represented in the study (i.e. 0-25 percentile, 26-50 percentile, 51-75 percentile, and 76 to 100 percentile.)  There will not be any career implications based upon results in the study as all testing results will remain completely anonymous.

5. Experimental sessions will be conducted in English and thus all volunteers in the study must be fluent in English comprehension.  Each testing day will consist of no more than one testing session in the morning or afternoon periods.  Each session will consist of one component of research testing (i.e. CF EXPRES test, a Land Evacuation, a Sea Evacuation, a Low High Crawl, an Entrenchment Dig, and Sandbag Carry).

Reference para 4:
Wouldn't this exclude those members who may be in the better half of physical fitness for this group?As in people deploying as SSM,TQ etc?Im my opinion this would make the trial totally inacurate and perhaps lowering the standard overall.Not saying the majority of people over 50 are out of shape,as I've seen a grey haired guy in spandex pass me a few times on the trails. :crybaby:

Reference para 5:
Is this testing also being done for just franco's? Or will they take a general english score and apply it across the board?

To me the testing doesnt seem scientific or offer a real true picture of the physical assesment of the 50-60 yr group.I'm willing to say there are not a great number of people serving at 50-60 in comparrasion to the rest of the army.How hard would it be to take a year to complete the study,testing all individuals french and english?Using this method would not produce a well balanced plan for :

7. Your consideration for participation in this project is valued and appreciated.  As a participant in the MPFS 50 to 60 Year Old Study you will be playing an important role in the development of physical fitness programs and testing methods for the optimization of safety of CF members while on deployable missions both at home in Canada and Abroad.  Please feel free to contact the Project Coordinator at (613) 992-1879, flanagan.sa@forces.gc.ca should your require any further information

A poor PT plan/method of testing will injure people as we have all seen before.Maybe if they are putting money into this study they could get all 50-60 yr olds to attend the testing over a year at their closest base.And PSP could travel to reserve bases which lack the PSP support.

The reason I have taken an intrest in this is not actually for me personally.I read this a while back and realised that the DP1 students we have right now will mostly ALL retire in this age category.This due to joining in their late 20's and falling under the new 25 year plan.With this in mind they should really take this study seriously.If not for now for the per's who will HAVE to complete 25.Unlike us on the 20 year plan who can retire anytime after 20 if our knees finally explode.

my.00002

(Note: something is going weird with either my computer or the spellcheck ,please forgive any spelling mistakes)
(grammer is totally my fault.)

 

[maniac779]

Related to increase in enrollement due to elimination of CF Express Test as part of the recruiting process...

It just came down today that all language school students at the Mega will be relocated to Campus St. Jean as the Recruit School now requires the rooms and bed space we are occupying. Today is Friday. The move will be complete in full by Thursday.

The elimination of the express test combined with the rest of the recruiting directives MUST be generating recruits. I have watched the Mega go from half full, to crammed, in less than 6 months.

 

[geo]

maniac............ the mega goes thru cycles.  They don't start a BQ unless there is somewhere to send the graduates once the course ends.  Keeping partly trained soldiers in PAT platoons in not viable so that is why the Mega appears half empty at times AND jammed full at others.

The Rangers were moved out of the mega 12-24 months ago.
The ILQ was moved to Ft St-Jean last spring (earlier if you were "staff")
and the language types were due to move ........... it was only a matter of time - regardless of when you heard about it.

 

[Meridian]

Well, given that canadian taxpayers still own Ft St Jean anyway, we might as well use it.  Though I like how we lease out the land for nothing to a not-for-profit corp and then lease back our own space at obviously much higher rates.... *sigh*.

God I love the government.

 

[knoxville]

dont know if this was adressed, but what will recruits do after their daily workout routine. considering they are pulled from the course, i assume they will not be doing the school work etc.

 

[kincanucks]

dont know if this was adressed, but what will recruits do after their daily workout routine. considering they are pulled from the course, i assume they will not be doing the school work etc.

They will be learning how to properly write a sentence. Did you want to join them?

 

[Meridian]

Oh boy.

Assuming they already have their kit (and are doing ruck marches, and other similar PT) or are issued it along the way, additional polishing time is never a bad thing
That is an assumption though that has very little basis, especially if they are doing the CFEXPRES test in the first week or so.

 

[newaecgirl]

HI all. 

    I see there is still some speculation about RFT (recruit fitness training).  Let me fill you in on some of the details....I have first hand knowledge of the program.

    Everyone who arrives at the MEGA and fails the VO2 Max is loaded onto RFT.  I just want to clarify that this is not necessarily because they are unfit....We have several people who are there because of screw ups--untied shoelaces, tripped by the 30 other people running across the floor, sicknesses, and some who are just not quite at the level they need to be.  The majority of people who stay for RFT (and a lot of people just VR) are people who are only 1/2 a level away from the standard, like myself. 

    RFT consists of week 1 BMQ training (since the recruits are shifted over after completing the new week 0), spread over 4 weeks, and does include a CB period for the entire 4 weeks.  A typical day consists of an inspection, a BMQ class (including drill and forced marches), weight lifting, another BMQ class, lunch (and there are dietary limitations), cardio training, core training and finally a nutrition class, or class of Physical training.  The nights consist of laundry (you use almost all of your issued pt kit every day), and preparing for inspections, homework, etc. ).  On the weekends we rest, but go for a walk on Sat and mandatory pool time on Sunday. 
    This program has been very successful so far, with only 4 people out of 50 failing the first express test and going on to a phase 2.  Once you pass your express test you remain with RFT until you can be loaded on a platoon (which for recruits is usually the following monday...for officers much longer), so your fitness doesn't dwindle by sitting on PAT.  There is not a huge amount of people waiting for RFT (currently there are 8 for 25 psns), and a new phase starts every 2 weeks to get everyone through.

    My final comment on RFT is that it is a great program--both the PSP staff and military staff are amazing, and the improvement you can make are phenomenal (I saw someone go from a 5.5 to a 9 on the shuttle run).  BUT if you are not willing to put in 110% 24 hrs a day, and take full advantage of the second chance you are given....do us a favour and VR.  We don't carry anyone through RFT.

 

[Trilogy1977]

the Express Test is different then the test they used to do at the recruiting office. It basically consists of the shuttle run, push-up's, sit-up's and the grip test, only thing different about is the shuttle run instead of the step test they used to do in the recruiting center...

when i got to bmq i believe we did it on the 2nd day there, and yes, those who do not pass get put on a platoon whose focus is to get you in shape to pass the test, if you do pass you get put onto a regular platoon...

hope this helps

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Day late, and a dollar short, but thanks  ;D

 

[govenor_mac]

You better believe it. My son was one of those who didn't pass the shuttle run and had to take remedial training. He lost 10 inches. Graduated in the top five of his platoon. He is in some shape and he owes it all to the help and guidance of his instructors and of course his sheer determination to succeed.

 

[Trilogy1977]

the instructors are hard on you but that's their job, don't take it personally... if you put forth 110% effort and don't give up at anything, they will help you succeed ; )

 

[newaecgirl]

The instructors on RFTare great and so are the PSP staff....but don't be fooled...they will not waste time on someone determined to be a stick in the mud, and neither should they!