New PT Test Requirements...Thoughts?

[Clarkey]

Hey All,

Just finished my swearing in this past Thursday, We were informed that upon arriving at St. Jean there will be a PT test within the first couple of days. Much along the same lines as the pre-recruitment test. We were also informed that if we fail this test unlike before instead of being sent home we would be put in, and I quote a 'Warrior" platoon where we would be brought up to standard while still taking part in some of the classes. What are all your guys thoughts on this? I'm sort of divided on whether this is a good thing or not.

To me if you cannot stay disciplined enough to stay in shape before BMQ then what are you doing there in the first place. But maybe there were circumstances that inhibited your training before you went( ie. health, family obligations, etc.).

I wonder in the long run will this cause a trend of lazy recruits, with the oh well they'll fix it attitude.

Clarkey

 

[17thRecceSgt]

The test is the standard CF EXPRES test. 

Well, as much as I think recruits should be in shape, atleast they are planning on doing something with the ones that aren't.  Rather than just turfing them.  From a "fiscally responsible" stance, it is a better deal for Joe and Jane Taxpayer.

Remember, if you constantly get rid of the weakest link, pretty soon you will have one link left in your chain/one person left in your unit.

Do I think they should be in shape prior to?  Damn straight!

Do I think in the PC world we now live, people can cry foul and use the "but I wasn't being paid then so I didn't have to be in shape" excuse?  Seems like it.

And, you should only be worried IF you know you are possibly going to end up in a "Warrior" platoon.     If you pass the EXPRES you carry on with training.  Sweet.

See link for the current EXPRES test standards.  Note that you will most likely do the 20MSR (MSR=Meter Shuttle Run).  The PSP staff at CFLRS expect a 100% standard "movement" for it to count as well, so if you don't do your pushup "to standard" it doesn't count.

http://www.rmc.ca/athletics/pe/EXPRES/standards_e.html

Passing the EXPRES test is just making the minimal fitness requirements of the CF.  The minimal.  I passed it and my cardio sucks right now.  The goal is to IMPROVE.

I am pretty sure when you get there, you will find out that in Week 6 or so, you will redo the EXPRES to see where you have improved.

About your question about lazy recruits, I would wait to see how "inactive" this Warrior Platoon is.  I am betting, if they are there for NOT passing the EXPRES test, they won't be eating fat pucks and watching Jerry Springer to get up to snuff.   ushup:.  Also remember that they have to pass the min standard as part of the application, right?

If they go downhill between their entrance test and BMQ, they are asking for a beasting and are going to get one with PT, IMHO.   You reap what you sow.

Good luck with the EXPRES and your BMQ   

 

[navymich]

Also remember that they have to pass the min standard as part of the application, right?

This was brought up last week in another thread, and it would be great to get a recruiter on here to deny or confirm.  When I was at CFRC last week for my own PT test, the clerk confirmed that there is a new directive out effective 1 Oct 06 regarding the PT test for the applications.  I was to be sent a copy, but have still yet to receive it.

I'm not trying to start (continue?) rumours or "I was told's", but with that date fast approaching, there is going to be alot of questions and comments about this.  I will continue to ask for a copy of this directive, but if there is anyone else out there that can lay their hands on it too, it would be good to have it posted.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

This was brought up last week in another thread, and it would be great to get a recruiter on here to deny or confirm.  When I was at CFRC last week for my own PT test, the clerk confirmed that there is a new directive out effective 1 Oct 06 regarding the PT test for the applications.  I was to be sent a copy, but have still yet to receive it.

I'm not trying to start (continue?) rumours or "I was told's", but with that date fast approaching, there is going to be alot of questions and comments about this.  I will continue to ask for a copy of this directive, but if there is anyone else out there that can lay their hands on it too, it would be good to have it posted.

Ahh yes, the "October 1st 2006" phenomenum...  ;D.

"Watch and shoot...watch and shoot..."

 

[Clarkey]

Thanks for the well wishes Mud! I never looked at it from that point of view...nice analogy with the weakest link statement . I can imagine like you say that if one lets themselves go that much between the entrance test and the expres that they would catch more then their share of flak in this 'Warrior' platoon.

Just a thought though what happens if you only get one or two failures? They devote an instructor just for these one or two? I have no experience whatsoever and am the first to admit it, but if this is the case wouldn't it be more fiscally sound to send them home altogether instead of wasting resources? At least then if they really wanted to do it they could train on their own time, then reapply and recourse in the future.

Like I stated though I'm just a lowly recruit in waiting and not up on how cases like this would be treated. This topic however struck me as something different when the recruiter told us this past Thursday.

Oh by the way when I said lazy recruits, I never quite meant it like that. more of along the lines of recruits who will just try to make the minimum. With no worries of repercussions due to this fallback plan. I believe that if there is no real consequence maybe there won't be as much heart...:-\

Clarkey

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Thanks for the well wishes Mud! I never looked at it from that point of view...nice analogy with the weakest link statement . I can imagine like you say that if one lets themselves go that much between the entrance test and the expres that they would catch more then their share of flak in this 'Warrior' platoon.

Just a thought though what happens if you only get one or two failures? They devote an instructor just for these one or two? I have no experience whatsoever and am the first to admit it, but if this is the case wouldn't it be more fiscally sound to send them home altogether instead of wasting resources? At least then if they really wanted to do it they could train on their own time, then reapply and recourse in the future.

Like I stated though I'm just a lowly recruit in waiting and not up on how cases like this would be treated. This topic however struck me as something different when the recruiter told us this past Thursday.

Clarkey

Well, the flak they will get is what I remember being referred to as Remedial Training.  Student 1 requires more trng than Student 2 is Task A.  Do we let him go?  No, we give him remedial trng to get up to standard.  Doesn't have to be all huggy lovey in delivery though  ;D.  In my experience, we (instructors on staff) have done remedial trng with students in...well pretty much everything.  People have strengths and weaknesses, and where one troop might excel at drill and weapons, he might not be able to navigate in the Superstore and his AFV Recognitions skills aren't up to standard.  This is where the "TEAM" concept comes in, and you help each other out.

Well I am not sure on the one or two failures concept.  Remedial PT could be done by PSP (civilians) staff and, heck there is always a Cpl around that can lead a few troops.  If they have already gotten to this point and are going home, they have ALREADY wasted a ton of resources.  Someone had to recruit them, ship them up, kit them out, and now release them, and close their PERS file, ship it to Archives...etc etc.  I think unless they are performing like a can of smashed a$$holes, train them up.  Also, while NOT doing remedial PT, the CFLRS can certainly use them for "other things" commonly known as GDs (General Duties).  And it could be anything for A-Z that doesn't require a MOC qualification.  Taking out garbage, scrubbing pots, counting brooms, flipping over leaves in the soccer field, whatever. 

Hopefully, they are there to try to get into shape and not being part of the training on BMQ but SEEING it everyday will have them drooling...and not at the thought of the cake that was out for desert at supper the night before.

Now, this is only my opinion, but...I say train them if they are trainable.  Sending them home just creates another gap that CFRG has to start to fill all over again from scratch maybe.

A couple of weeks of pot-scrubbing might motivate them.  I would love to believe that being left behind and out of the BMQ loop would be the kind of motivation they need.  To want to get on with serving.  Instead of scrubbing.

 

[kincanucks]

I have confirmed through my old CFRC/D that there is no longer a requirement to pass a physical fitness test to be enrolled into the CF.  An enrolee will be tested in the first week of BMQ and if they don't pass, they will be moved to the "Warrior" platoon where they will have 90 days to pass the physcal fitness test and be returned to BMQ training.  During this 90 days they will be tested at the 30, 60 and 90 day mark and ca return to BMQ training if they pass the test at any of these marks.  If the person does not pass the test after 90 days then they are released.  Someone who makes a lot more money than I has probably done a risk assessment and has concluded that the CF can afford to pay people, for up to 90 days, who are physically unfit when they join.

Forgot to say thank you ladies and I miss you too.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Well, so its the "3 strikes, you're out" approach.

If someone needs more than 90 days to pass the min. EXPRES test... :

 

[paracowboy]

quantity over quality baby! They said they wanted tens of thousands of new troops. They didn't say they wanted GOOD troops. So, we'll pack 'em in, cram 'em into uniforms, and let 'em sit out their Initial Engagements in "Warrior" platoons, and PAT platoons across the country while we try to scrape up enough NCOs to run them through Basic and Trades courses.  :

 

[17thRecceSgt]

quantity over quality baby! They said they wanted tens of thousands of new troops. They didn't say they wanted GOOD troops. So, we'll pack 'em in, cram 'em into uniforms, and let 'em sit out their Initial Engagements in "Warrior" platoons, and PAT platoons across the country while we try to scrape up enough NCOs to run them through Basic and Trades courses.  :

sigh. 

I say that 'cause you are hittin' the bullseye. 

As long as it all looks good on paper... :

 

[GAP]

We had what was called the "Fat Farm". If you were not up to standards they would get you up to standards, then be inserted into the next training platoon available. Everybody I talked to wanted out of the Fat Farm so bad they performed. There was little or no option to be released without a unsatisfactory discharge. In the civi world at that time, that was a death knell.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Gap,

I (snicker) don't think the CF would (HA HA HA) be allowed to call it  :rofl: that unfortunately.

Instead of "fat" we are using "Warrior". 

:rofl:

 

[geo]

myabe it's the "worry er" program... you get to worry about getting you passed over the 30 60 or 90 days

 

[17thRecceSgt]

myabe it's the "worry er" program... you get to worry about getting you passed over the 30 60 or 90 days

HA HA HA HA

:rofl:

I am having too much fun tonight.  Time to get serious.

 

[Meridian]

What does this mean for Ocdts?

There aren't IAP serials running more than 3-4 times a year, so is there a warrior platoon for them as well?

 

[orange.paint]

quantity over quality baby! They said they wanted tens of thousands of new troops. They didn't say they wanted GOOD troops. So, we'll pack 'em in, cram 'em into uniforms, and let 'em sit out their Initial Engagements in "Warrior" platoons, and PAT platoons across the country while we try to scrape up enough NCOs to run them through Basic and Trades courses.  :

First I laughed and and then I got angry at the whole situation.But dam para that's funny.

(true about the nco's also)

I would so volunteer to be section 2i/c of warrior platoon.
We had a troop in pet we called special needs troop.....I'm guessing it would look something like that.
notice:special needs troop was a name we placed on a large amount of gimps,lazy,and useless people that they piled all in one troop so the rest of us could do a certain competition.So no the RCD don't have a actual special needs troop.....but we sure could.

 

[kincanucks]

What does this mean for Ocdts?

There aren't IAP serials running more than 3-4 times a year, so is there a warrior platoon for them as well?

I wasn't told this new procedure was just for NCMs so I will assume that it includes officer applicants too. Besides they will need leadership in 'Warrior" platoon too.

 

[orange.paint]

What does this mean for Ocdts?

There aren't IAP serials running more than 3-4 times a year, so is there a warrior platoon for them as well?

I wasn't told this new procedure was just for NCMs so I will assume that it includes officer applicants too. Besides they will need leadership in 'Warrior" platoon too.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.This tread is the best ever.

 

[Klc]

I hate to admit this, but it's a huge relief for anyone like me.

When I was young, I used to be a FAT ass. (Now, I don't mean like, chubby, I mean like pastry-chef/European millionare fat)

I am now in the peak condition of my life, and I can finally do things like run for more then 200m. Or more then one pushup. Or a chin up at all.
Now, I train as much as possible, and can meet all the standards, and I KNOW I can get much better then I am now.

But my weakness is still running. I train as much as I can, but I still have a fear that I won't be able to preform when I need to.

This is not to say that I will be doing less training, I am still (and will be) doing more running a month then I did over the first 16 years of my life.
This just means I don't fear the first run at BMQ. I can focus on improving my fitness, not because I'm scared shitless, but because I'm proud to. And besides, (If all goes well) It's my new job.

Although fear can be a great motivator, personally I just never want to be less fit then I am now. (Again)

[edit: I will proofread my posts for errors, I will proofread my posts for errors, I will proofread....]

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Klc,

Ya thats the stuff! 

MRM