New Governor General Service Medal?

[Towards_the_gap]

Or perhaps a pin, like the UK version:

http://www.veterans-uk.info/vets_badge/vets_badge.htm

Uggh....I hate coins. Thankfully I have yet to receive one but I honestly DO NOT SEE THE POINT in handing someone a cheap bit of tin with an army crest on it. That is something we got from the Americans which I wish we would do away with. Reeks of pointless backslapping/chest thumping, 'look at me'-ism. Like the proposed medal.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Coins may have their place, but they've been well abused by "cheapest bidder" product and produced in numbers so great that a commander (or RSM, etc.) hands one to every driver and clerk or staff officer they walk past, just because they're trying to empty their pocket of that visit's allocation of coinage.  But a coin won't satisfy the vocal crew wishing for a bit of chest bling.

A lapel pin could work, with the right official backing. It would be as valid as the recently produced pins that get handed out on retirement from the Reg F with all the other Depart with Dignity items.

It could be as simple as a quality design with the tri-force emblem and a banner beneath saying "I Served".  Authorize the design, produce it centrally, and let those who want one to wear purchase it.  Secondly, authorize a design pattern and let regiments and corps produce matching designs with their own badge emblems.  But, and this would be the important aspect, copyright the basic pattern as an official display of having served, and make the wearing of one fall under the same regulations as wearing a medal one hasn't earned (i.e., wearing it to imply that you did earn it). Make the symbol official and recognized by the public ... and then defend against it's use by others like the Legion does the poppy symbol.

 

[AmmoTech90]

A tri-service pin is handed out now.  My wife just got her release package, included a Certificate of Service, a nice letter and oval lapel pin with the tri-service crest and CANADA over the top and SERVICE in the lower rocker.
All in a nice white jewelry box with the tri-service crest on top.
This was on transferring to the sup reserve after around 16 years combined reg and reserve.

By the way, is retired member ID card only issued to those pers retired with a pension (please PM if you know the answer to keep this on topic).

 

[daftandbarmy]

Or perhaps a pin, like the UK version:

http://www.veterans-uk.info/vets_badge/vets_badge.htm

Uggh....I hate coins. Thankfully I have yet to receive one but I honestly DO NOT SEE THE POINT in handing someone a cheap bit of tin with an army crest on it. That is something we got from the Americans which I wish we would do away with. Reeks of pointless backslapping/chest thumping, 'look at me'-ism. Like the proposed medal.

The British have their own 'I served when there wasn't a real war on (except for NI) medal' campaign. Many would like an equivalent of the SSM issued for their Cold Warriors. Much commentary on ARRSE: http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=111585/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

The nice but cheesy 'Vets Badge'? I've got one... meh. Nice thought, but not required, and not likely to make it onto my blazer collar in the near future.

And coins... don't get me started. We had a soldier presented with an LFC Comd's coin recently. He performed very well during a big drama involving the three Bs (bullets, bombs and blood) in AFG . "So why didn't they at least give him an MiD?" I said, "Shut up" they replied... oh well.

 

[1feral1]

WRT Vets badges, Canada like other Commonwealth countries has had these since at least post WW1, with one serialed to the recipient, and had recognition for time served at the front.

Australia has the Returned from Active Service badge, which has changed only from King's crown to Queen's, and are given out along with the Australian Active Service Medal. The badge is so noted on your awards/dec's section of your pers file.

It identifies other Vets for social gatherings at ANZAC Day, Long Tan Day, Remberance Day etc, and most (if not all) of us wear them. Again a tradition here which is always well recieved by everyone.

This badge is for being on active service, not for general service.

I have that little bronze coloured CF pin which I also wear alongside the RAS badge, and I am just as proud of that as any embellishments I wear on certain occasions.

Regards,

OWDU

 

[Neill McKay]

A tri-service pin is handed out now.  My wife just got her release package, included a Certificate of Service, a nice letter and oval lapel pin with the tri-service crest and CANADA over the top and SERVICE in the lower rocker.

If I'm not mistaken, that pin is connected with the CD (i.e. only given, on release, to those who have it).

 

[Danjanou]

If I'm not mistaken, that pin is connected with the CD (i.e. only given, on release, to those who have it).

Someone owes me a goodie  package then. All I got when I pulled pole was a bill from the QM for kit they claimed I still owed. :

 

[daftandbarmy]

Someone owes me a goodie  package then. All I got when I pulled pole was a bill from the QM for kit they claimed I still owed. :

So, you didn't get the mess bill too? I'll see what I can do about that....  ;D

 

[Danjanou]

Which one? By my count I've been tossed out of er a avalued paid up member of 6 JR messes and 5 Wo & Sgts Messes, and that don't include Regimental Associations.  8)

Now back on topic here's a thought. The plan for this gong is that you would have the name of the GG who was in when you enrolled on the bar. What happens if like D&B and so many others you join, quit, and join agian later and it's another GG in residence ? Do they issue you multiple bars? How do you explain these bars at the local Hug and Slug er RCL branch on Nov 11th?  :worms: :stirpot:

 

[Haggis]

Which one? By my count I've been tossed out of er a avalued paid up member of 6 JR messes and 5 Wo & Sgts Messes, and that don't include Regimental Associations.  8)

Now back on topic here's a thought. The plan for this gong is that you would have the name of the GG who was in when you enrolled on the bar. What happens if like D&B and so many others you join, quit, and join agian later and it's another GG in residence ? Do they issue you multiple bars? How do you explain these bars at the local Hug and Slug er RCL branch on Nov 11th?  :worms: :stirpot:

Simple:

- One medal, with a bar awarded for each GG you have served under.

- If you release and re-enrol and a new GG is appointed while you are "out", you get another medal (once you have, again, met the criteria) to wear witr your orginal medal, with one bar on each.

- If, like D&B, you serve in more than one military, you can wear both (or all) medals, in the order of precedence of when that nation became part of the Commonwealth (youngest nations on the outside).

- If you transfer to the Reserves before being eligible for the medal while in the Reg Force, the clock gets reset to zero and you must start accumulating creditable time all over again, but this time each "day" is only with 1/4 time.  Therefore, to accumulate 4 years of eligible Reserve service you would need to parade a minimum of four days a month for 30 years before qualifiying (I heard this argument being made for Reserve CD eligibility a couple of years ago)

- If you transfer from the Reserves to the Reg Force, all your Reserve time is counted as four for one, unless you served on an operational tour, at which time your operational service is counted one-for-one, except if the operation was commanded by the UN, in which case time doesn't count for either Reg Force or Reserves.

Now THAT's how you stir the pot!!!!

(The preceding post is not a flame of Reservists (I am one), just an attack on the artificial, arbitrary and discriminatory criteria that are are being bandied about for a medal we will probably never see.)

 

[ModlrMike]

Interesting...

Having read through all 129 messages on the topic I'm struck by the similarities between this discussion, and the one that occurred when the CPSM was being considered.

 

[armyvern]

Interesting...

Having read through all 129 messages on the topic I'm struck by the similarities between this discussion, and the one that occurred when the CPSM was being considered.

Off thread topic in reply to yours:

Interesting that you mention the CPSM; just last week I was all dolled up in my 1As (I wore the skirt - I sit in a classroom all day) for a video tele-conference; One of the questions that I was asked was "explain what each of your medals is for" (in french of course). My answers (also in french):

CPSM: This is called the CPSM; I was awarded it because I was awarded this one by the UN (points at UNTAG medal --- this one).


The rest of the class snickered in the background (in agreement), but heck ... if I hadn't had that UNTAG ... I wouldn't have gotten that CPSM until I had gotten my UNDOF ... so it's entertaining ... but 100% true. How the heck else would one explain it?

Back on topic:

I'm still NOT convinced about the validity of this thread subject ...

Must serve honourably;
Must serve "X" amount of time;
Don't have to do any Op Tours or out of country tours (ie total "X" time can be 100% 'domestic';
Must volunteer for service (last time I checked, we didn't conscript anyone); and
Must be released under honourable circumstances.

Sounds a heck of a lot just like ... the CD -- to which the same criteria are applicable ... less the release factor. So, if that's the case ...

Let's save the taxpayers a crapload of money in this time of fiscal restraint and just drop the "TI" criteria down to 3 or 4 years (or whatever they propose for this new one) and start handing out the CD then instead.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Back on topic:

I'm still NOT convinced about the validity of this thread subject ...

Must serve honourably;
Must serve "X" amount of time;
Don't have to do any Op Tours or out of country tours (ie total "X" time can be 100% 'domestic';
Must volunteer for service (last time I checked, we didn't conscript anyone); and
Must be released under honourable circumstances.

Sounds a heck of a lot just like ... the CD -- to which the same criteria are applicable ... less the release factor. So, if that's the case ...

Let's save the taxpayers a crapload of money in this time of fiscal restraint and just drop the "TI" criteria down to 3 or 4 years (or whatever they propose for this new one) and start handing out the CD then instead.

If you go to the current petition by the gentleman referenced in the very first post, you'll see that the originator has suggested a term of service of "365 days of uninterrupted honourable duty".

We, the undersigned residents of Canada, respectfully call upon the Government of Canada, to recognize by means of the issuance of a new Canadian Volunteer Service Medal, to be designated “The Governor General’s Volunteer Service Medal”, for volunteer service by Canadians in the Regular and Reserve Military Forces and Cadet Corps Support Staff who were not eligible for the aforementioned medals and who have completed 365 days of uninterrupted honourable duty in the service of their country Canada, since 2 March 1947.

One year.

So, how many people who VR'd from PAT Platoon before they completed their "3's" would be eligible? Why not just make it the "Completed Basic Training Medal".

 

[armyvern]

If you go to the current petition by the gentleman referenced in the very first post, you'll see that the originator has suggested a term of service of "365 days of uninterrupted honourable duty".

One year.

So, how many people who VR'd from PAT Platoon before they completed their "3's" would be eligible? Why not just make it the "Completed Basic Training Medal".

X = 1;

Scratch my last (or at least change my "X" = 3 or 4 to 1) ... CD after 1 year of service. Problem solved, money saved - medal still awarded.

 

[Infanteer]

But if we did that, then guys wouldn't have two medals to wear!

As for the CPSM, I don't get wound up about it as something like the Golden Jubilee - at least I had to do something to wear it; it's like those WWII Victory Medals, I guess.

 

[armyvern]

But if we did that, then guys wouldn't have two medals to wear!

As for the CPSM, I don't get wound up about it as something like the Golden Jubilee - at least I had to do something to wear it; it's like those WWII Victory Medals, I guess.

No, we wouldn't have two medals (but then, this proposal is about "recognizing volunteer service") which my proposal would do!! But, for those not satisfied with that ... I further propose that they'll still get recognized at 12 years of volunteer, honourable service just like they do now  --- so they've lost nothing.

We'll just award the 1st bar at 12 years of service, 2nd at 22 ...

Lots of bars in the system ... and rosettes too for the ribbons.

I mean heck --- if the point is to recognize someone for voluntary and honourable service (just at an earlier date than it is now) ... it seems to me that bumping up the CD to the 1 year mark and awarding the 1st bar at 12 ... would just about cover it.

 

[vonGarvin]

Hey, leave my jubilee medal alone!  ;D

 

[Haggis]

If you go to the current petition by the gentleman referenced in the very first post, you'll see that the originator has suggested a term of service of "365 days of uninterrupted honourable duty".

So, despite that the petitioner wants this medal to be available to both Regular Force and Reserve, the criteria excludes the vast majority of Class A Reservists who have not yet done a tour or a long term Class B.  Even if the term of service were to be, say, "365 days of cumulative honourable duty"  The average Reservist, parading at the funded ceiling of 33.5 days per annum, would take 11 years to accumulate enough qualifying service (Assuming, of course, that "qualifying service" wasn't calculated by the same methodolgy used to do IPC calculations for Class C service).

Sounds completely fair and well thought out to me!

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

So, despite that the petitioner wants this medal to be available to both Regular Force and Reserve, the criteria excludes the vast majority of Class A Reservists who have not yet done a tour or a long term Class B.  Even if the term of service were to be, say, "365 days of cumulative honourable duty"  The average Reservist, parading at the funded ceiling of 33.5 days per annum, would take 11 years to accumulate enough qualifying service (Assuming, of course, that "qualifying service" wasn't calculated by the same methodolgy used to do IPC calculations for Class C service).

Sounds completely fair and well thought out to me!

Accepting that this whole idea is farcical and will most likely not result in a new medal...nothing in the proposal says anything about paid service.  Just like how the CD is awarded after 12 years, regardless of how many days were paid in that period.  "Canadian Forces Decoration is awarded to officers, and to the men and women of the Canadian Forces who have completed twelve years of service"

 

[Haggis]

"The Canadian Forces' Decoration is awarded to officers and Non-Commissioned Members of the Canadian Forces who have completed twelve years of service. The decoration is awarded to all ranks, who have a good record of conduct.

ELIGIBILITY & CRITERIA

The decoration is awarded to the regular forces, reserve forces, officers of the Cadet Instructors Cadre (CIC), Canadian Rangers and holders of honorary appointments in the CF. Service in the regular and reserve or auxiliary forces of the British Commonwealth of Nations will be counted towards the medal if the final five years have been served with the Canadian Forces and no other long service, good conduct or efficiency medal has been awarded for the same service. The medal may be awarded to persons in possession of any long service, good conduct or efficiency decoration or medal clasps, provided that the individual has completed the full qualifying periods of service for each award and that no service qualifying towards one award is permitted to count towards any other. The service need not be continuous. This award supersedes all other long service awards for members joining the Canadian Forces after 01 September 1939."