New Governor General Service Medal?

[Neill McKay]

*The Navy, I think, had no rank badge for any one below leading seaman/corporal. But one did see ”three badge ABs” now and again (looking a bit like army sergeants) – long service sailors who had never achieved or had forfeited LS or better rank. (AB = able seaman, LS = leading seaman)

You're correct that there was no rank insignia until a sailor was promoted to LS and got his anchor (the origin of the term "killick" for a LS).  I believe good conduct badges were awarded (in the navy) for 3, 5, and 5 years respectively.  I don't think it was possible to have more than three, and forfeiture of one or more GC badges was a possible sentence if one was charged.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

I would have added my vote to the resounding NO pile but voting was closed.

For the simple reasons:

Medals are for service above and beyond that normally is expected of you.

CD: 12 years of putting up with crap and missing your family.
Operational  Medals: Doing your job in varying amounts of danger, in various hellholes, again missing your family/loved ones, for a significant amount of time. Hence the 30day criteria for operational/campaign medals (at least in the brits, not so sure about here). You don't get one for just showing up in theatre.
Valour: self-explanatory. Most troops do things daily overseas that would earn cops/firefighters heaps of accolades, but it is considered part of the job. You really have to do something brave/outstanding to get one of these.

So a 'thanks for showing up medal' is really not in keeping with the idea of the honours and awards system at all.

The same argument surfaced over in the UK with a proposed National Defence medal, and the same 'cold war and it's particular dangers' was used as an argument, leading many of those who are presently serving to see it as only a medal for those who got drunk in Hamburg every weekend, and not go through the tours that the present generation is going through.

Yes we won the cold war, but it wasn't johnny canuck (or tommy atkins), going on exercise in Soltau that won it. Nor was it the duty free beer/smokes/cars/gas. And there shouldn't be a medal for it.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I do not know if this discussion on Navy badges belongs here, but just for general historical info:

The Navy promoted by leadership skills, not trade knowledge. The seaman's uniforms had many various "patches" (for lack of better word): The rank badge (for leading hands and above), the trade identifier badge, the service badges, denoting years of service in rank, not to be confused with "Long Service and Good Conduct Medal" predecessor of the CD, and badges denoting trade qualification levels, which traditionally had three levels.

Your AB three badges was so named because he wore the three badges denoting he had attained the highest level of trade qualification, which made him sometimes the peer in trade knowledge of POs and even CPOs, but lacked the leadership skills to act as a leading hand (remember the structure was simpler then: no master seaman. The ranks of the Leading Seaman were less numerous and more akin to the MS of today). Conversely, good leaders could be promoted to PO 2nd class even if they had not achieved their third level of trade qualification: Until they did, they were referred to as Petty Officer No Trade  and were employed in leadership roles of a general nature, such as watches, shore parties and work parties. They were not allowed to assume in trade supervisor role or draw charge money for such duties.

 

[Old Sweat]

I just received the following forwarded email (with the name of the original sender removed)

Thank you for your support for the Governor General's Volunteer Service Medal (GGVSM). This marks 3 1/2 years of efforts to try and bring this to the attention of our Government. This is about our all our Veterans and your personal efforts to support this is greatly appreciated.


By all means please forward this email to any and all, please forward at will!


A few million more voices in support of the comraderie of fellowship and the unity of comradeship...why not!



LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING

Recognition and Honour for our Veterans and Troops


How does one start to bring to the attention of others a much needed long overdue honour and recognition for thousands of Veterans and Troops? Remembrance is for all not just some! I hope a letter of understanding may be the answer in support of a proposed Governor General’s Volunteer Service Medal (GGVSM). It is important to know that the GGVSM Petition to ask for the creation of a new medal has been read in the House of Commons on 12 different occasions but this isn’t enough. We need the petition to be read in the House of Commons again and again and for this we need your help.


To all Canadians, my neighbours, comrades, colleagues, associates and friends, I have struggled with this as it is adamantly important to the success of a lasting legacy for our Veterans…all of them.


As individual Canadians it is within this letter that I ask for your trust, faith and understanding. It is my hope that you will fully comprehend that it is only by sharing the awareness and encouragement of a kind and meaningful gesture of remembrance, “your signature”, that we can accomplish this act of remembrance! This is a vitally important individual commitment of participation for honour, recognition and support. A goal to finally bring about this honour for the thousands of Veterans who voluntarily served our nation yet have not received a single Canadian medal to acknowledge their service.


Since March 1st, 1947, when the issuance of a Volunteer Service Medal for our Troops ceased, it was replaced with…nothing. Thousands of Canadians made the conviction to volunteer to serve and did so with dignity and honour, yet we as a nation have given them nothing to recognize this selfless act. For all, it is a duty that at anytime those that volunteer to serve do so knowing they may and often are called to duty serving anywhere in the world including theatres of war. Some did so and in this act of courage they paid the ultimate sacrifice…death.


For many young Canadians who served and were honourably discharged they received nothing by way of a Canadian Medal to acknowledge their volunteer service. This lapse is critical to understanding the need for recognition. A commitment to serve is part of Canada’s Heritage and a Legacy for the Troops and their families. These young men and women who voluntarily served under the Commanders-in-Chief, the Governor Generals of Canada from 1947 to present were willing to put themselves in harms way. They have yet to be formally remembered for their role in the defence of our freedom and democracy. I know this begs the question why!


For many of us, these medal-less Veterans are our comrades, brothers-in-arms and we share a kindred spirit with them. For others, they are our friends, neighbours, colleagues and ancestors. It should be a matter of espirit-des-corps for them as well as all our Veterans and Troops to have at least one medal honouring them. The proposed solution, the GGVSM would be issued to the thousands of Veterans that have honourably served since March 1947. For all Canadians, this is where each of you as an individual with all the entitlements and rights to Freedom of Speech are asked to help out with this cause and we humbly request from each of you your assistance with in doing three things:

1.      That all of you ask your Members of Parliament to have copies of the GGVSM Petition in their Constituency Office in your Riding so that you and all Canadians know where a copy is and have the opportunity to go in and sign it,

2.      That as many as possible go to the on-line GGVSM Petition website and sign the Petition for a Volunteer Service Medal for our Veterans, or get assistance from someone that has a computer to sign the on-line petition, and

3.      We need all of you to write individual “(regular post)” letters to (i) our Prime Minister and (ii) your Members of Parliament requesting their support of the GGVSM for the honour, recognition and remembrance of these our Comrades, Friends, Neighbours, Ancestors...our Veterans.


What’s fascinating is what one learns about honour and where it lies when it comes to an approved Canadian Petition such as the GGVSM Petition. Any Canadian can sign it, there is no age restriction. To all, I hope this letter lends a hand towards a deeper understanding of what one signature at a time, one completed Petition at a time and a couple of letters from each of you can do for to bring about the proposed GGVSM for all of our Veterans.


With deepest appreciation for your support and understanding,

Remembrance of our Veterans is for all not just some,

Sincerely yours,

 

[CountDC]

Shall we also do away with all those medals people get just because they went somewhere?  After all, it was only their job, why should we waste money on gongs for that?

And how about those ones that people get just because their boss says they did something special?  Doesn't that just smack of favoritism and leave out everyone else who just didn't get noticed as a special person?

Yup, lets do away with they whole damn medal thing, it's obviuosly a waste of our time and money.

May I suggest The Canadian Honours System, by Christopher McCreery, to improve your understanding of Canadian orders, decorations and medals.  While your opinion is no doubt of value to you, more facts might help you form a better argument to support it.

Are you serious about comparing a CD to ops medals??  Not even close in comparison.  Wow I showed up to work for 22 years in an office, didn't get charged and received the CD1 for being such a good boy.  Meanwhile some of the people who's pay and admin I took care of over the years were in foriegn countries getting shot at in some cases and facing the possibilty of it in all.  Hardly a comparison.  Don't try to turn my words into something they are not - at no point did I indicate a lack of respect for the medals people are earning by actually doing something other than just showing up.  That is after all what the CD is - show up for 12 years, don't get charged, here you go.  No comparison at all to the medals for the Ops our members are serving on in various countries around the world or the ones that members have received for performing outstanding acts.

As for more facts making an argument to support my opinion - no need for it as I do not intend to argue my opinion, I merely expressed it and as indicated respect that others have their own opinion.  No reason to argue over it - my opinion will not take it away from you anymore than it stopped them from making me march up and accept mine. You can feel free to wear it with pride while I feel free to consider it another piece of kit I have to look after.

 

[Michael OLeary]

My apologies, I apparently misinterpreted how you were choosing which medals to belittle through over-simplification of entitlement requirements.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I will credit Blackadder with one of the best posts on the forum regarding long (or short) service medals:

One of my lasting memories of someone talking about the decorations and medals that he was wearing occurred in 1994.  I had the good luck of having a COS date out of Lahr that permitted me to arrange my passage home on the Queen Elizabeth 2 sailing out of Southampton on 8 June.  I was able therefore to drive to Normandy and spend 6 June 94 (50th Anniversary of D-Day) visiting some of the memorials and events there; take the ferry across to England; turn my car over to Cunard for loading onto the ship and then relax for several days on the North Atlantic.  The voyage was billed as a “D-Day Memorial” cruise.  Many of the passengers were WW II veterans, mostly American, some Brits, and at least one Canadian.

One of the events that occurred on the ship was the Captain’s Welcome Party.  Dressed in finest bib and tucker, you go through the receiving line, have your photo taken and then proceed to the most important part of the soiree… getting a drink.  Some of the other passengers were wearing medals, ribbons or devices that showed that they had served.  I was in mess kit as were a few of the other passengers including a Van Doo LCol and a husband & wife who were both pilots in the USAF.  It was particularly easy for the Van Doo and me to be noticed in the scarlet monkey jackets. 

A few people had approached me with the inevitable questions about who we were and what were we doing.  I was chatting with a lady when we were approached by a gentleman in a maroon jacket that included Cdn para wings and several medals.  He introduced himself and joined in the conversation which naturally turned to where had you been.  He had served with the 1 Cdn Para Bn as a private during the war and had made the jump into Normandy and over the Rhine. 

The lady with whom we were chatting asked about the medals and wings he and I were wearing.  I probably would have answered in my typically flippant manner about 12 years undetected crime (C.D.), 6 months getting a suntan and not getting a venereal disease (UNEFME) and 4 years wine and beer tasting (SSM with NATO bar), but he replied first by drawing her attention to the one medal we had in common, the Canadian Forces Decoration.  I was surprised when he told her it was the one that he was most proud to wear.  The lady asked why.  His reply impressed me and later that evening I wrote an account of what he said, maybe not verbatim, because we had imbibed several beverages, but close enough for government work.

He said.  “ It’s easy to be a soldier when everyone is or wants to be a soldier; when being in uniform is the normal thing to do.  The true measure of a man is his commitment to serving his country when there is little chance of excitement, or glory or getting medals.  This medal (he indicated his CD) shows people that we pledged a significant portion of our lives to serving our country when few others would, doing things that we didn't necessarily want to do and that were not very glamorous.  These (he indicated his 4 or 5 wartime medals) I got for spending 3 years in uniform doing what most guys my age were doing. Was it hard work and dangerous? Yes. But mostly I had a lot of fun doing it.”

Since then I’ve had a different perspective on those little pieces of ribbon that we wear.

Other threads on the subject:

Medals Parade
How Long Have You Served in the CF?]
CF Short Service Medals
Military pushes overhaul of medal system
Should everyone get a CD?

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Nice letter Old Sweat, but what are the criteria for awarding of said medal? Is it supported by any relevant organisation? RCL? Regt'l associations?

The telling phrase in that whole spiel was For many of us, these medal-less Veterans are our comrades

Hmm...medal-less? So they didn't have the luck (or bad luck as the case may be) to deploy on operations. They got up, had breakfast, went to work, and went home, and now feel a bit sheepish when Rememberance Day rolls around and they see a 22 year old with the SWASM, GCS ISAF and possibly a valour decoration, so now they want a medal for having a service number and a pulse?

I'm sorry but if I spent time in the army and didn't deploy, yes I would still feel like a prick standing next to people who DID deploy, but I wouldn't dream of asking for a medal for just doing my day to day job.

 

[1feral1]

Seems many on here are more concerned about themselves getting awarded this gong, and not about Veterans inwhich its all about.

WRT to that petition, its grown to around 4300.

I think we should see outside the box here, and looking down here, it did not hurt having such an award created. Comparing it to the 12 yr CD (here the sister medal is 15 yrs --w/bars after 5 yrs) as is the UK) is wrong, as thats not what it is for.

It works here perfectly, and the idea can work in Canada. In my opinion, we should stop thinking of ourselves, and think of others.

Take the time to read this, I did.

LETTER OF UNDERSTANDING

Recognition and Honour for our Veterans and Troops



How does one start to bring to the attention of others a much needed long overdue honour and recognition for thousands of Veterans and Troops? Remembrance is for all not just some! I hope a letter of understanding may be the answer in support of a proposed Governor General’s Volunteer Service Medal (GGVSM). It is important to know that the GGVSM Petition to ask for the creation of a new medal has been read in the House of Commons on 12 different occasions but this isn’t enough. We need the petition to be read in the House of Commons again and again and for this we need your help.



To all Canadians, my neighbours, comrades, colleagues, associates and friends, I have struggled with this as it is adamantly important to the success of a lasting legacy for our Veterans…all of them.



As individual Canadians it is within this letter that I ask for your trust, faith and understanding. It is my hope that you will fully comprehend that it is only by sharing the awareness and encouragement of a kind and meaningful gesture of remembrance, “your signature”, that we can accomplish this act of remembrance! This is a vitally important individual commitment of participation for honour, recognition and support. A goal to finally bring about this honour for the thousands of Veterans who voluntarily served our nation yet have not received a single Canadian medal to acknowledge their service.



Since March 1st, 1947, when the issuance of a Volunteer Service Medal for our Troops ceased, it was replaced with…nothing. Thousands of Canadians made the conviction to volunteer to serve and did so with dignity and honour, yet we as a nation have given them nothing to recognize this selfless act. For all, it is a duty that at anytime those that volunteer to serve do so knowing they may and often are called to duty serving anywhere in the world including theatres of war. Some did so and in this act of courage they paid the ultimate sacrifice…death.



For many young Canadians who served and were honourably discharged they received nothing by way of a Canadian Medal to acknowledge their volunteer service. This lapse is critical to understanding the need for recognition. A commitment to serve is part of Canada’s Heritage and a Legacy for the Troops and their families. These young men and women who voluntarily served under the Commanders-in-Chief, the Governor Generals of Canada from 1947 to present were willing to put themselves in harms way. They have yet to be formally remembered for their role in the defence of our freedom and democracy. I know this begs the question why!



For many of us, these medal-less Veterans are our comrades, brothers-in-arms and we share a kindred spirit with them. For others, they are our friends, neighbours, colleagues and ancestors. It should be a matter of esprit-des-corps for them as well as all our Veterans and Troops to have at least one medal honouring them. The proposed solution, the GGVSM would be issued to the thousands of Veterans that have honourably served since March 1947. For all Canadians, this is where each of you as an individual with all the entitlements and rights to Freedom of Speech are asked to help out with this cause and we humbly request from each of you your assistance with in doing three things:

1.      That all of you ask your Members of Parliament to have copies of the GGVSM Petition in their Constituency Office in your Riding so that you and all Canadians know where a copy is and have the opportunity to go in and sign it, and

2.      That as many as possible go to the on-line GGVSM Petition website and sign the Petition for a Volunteer Service Medal for our Veterans, or get assistance from someone that has a computer to sign the on-line petition, and

3.      We need all of you to write individual “(regular post)” letters to (i) our Prime Minister and (ii) your Members of Parliament requesting their support of the GGVSM for the honour, recognition and remembrance of these our Comrades, Friends, Neighbours, Ancestors...our Veterans.



What’s fascinating is what one learns about honour and where it lies when it comes to an approved Canadian Petition such as the GGVSM Petition. Any Canadian can sign it, there is no age restriction. To all, I hope this letter lends a hand towards a deeper understanding of what one signature at a time, one completed Petition at a time and a couple of letters from each of you can do for to bring about the proposed GGVSM for all of our Veterans. Another neat thing is that there is no charge for letters sent to Parliament Hill, no stamps required if you live in Canada, but all other Canadians where every you may be I would surely welcome your support.



With deepest appreciation for your support and understanding,

Remembrance of our Veterans is for all not just some,

Sincerely yours,

Dave W. Palmer, CD

------------------------

Regards,

OWDU

 

[Journeyman]

OK, at this point we're into five pages of opinion.

Based upon this completely unscientific survey, people wanting this 'medal' who:
- are actually serving in the CF:  0
- a) haven't yet started/completed BMQ, or b) aren't even in the CF: 4

Seems pretty straight-forward to me. 
If you're not IN the Canadian Forces, please don't presume to speak on our behalf  :




Edited for clarity/typo

 

[FDO]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I know in Nova Scotia and Ontario They have Veteran's Plates for your car. All you need to do s serve 3 years in either Reg F or PRes. Lets stick with that. At least you can wear them all the time and EVERYONE on the street can see you once served no matter for how long.

My vote is NO!!!

 

[Infanteer]

Nice post on the CD and what it means to professional soldiers from Blackadder; I personally look forward to earning it - it's meant alot of time spent away from my wife and children serving this country (I think I've been in my house once for over a month in the last 2-3 years).  Surprisingly, the date seems closer then I thought!

As for short service recognition, I agree with E.R.C.'s point on the service stripes; I always liked the look of a USMC SNCO with 6 of the stripes on his dress uniform.

Anyways, my 2 cents.

 

[mariomike]

There are some differences, to me, between the C.V.S.M. and the G.G.V.S.M..
The CVSM was established on October 22, 1943 and issued in recognition of eighteen months of voluntary service in the Canadian Forces. There was the Italian Campaign, Normandy in the near future, and Japan, where an all out invasion of the home islands seemed almost inevitible. But, from what my father told me, you had to re-sign ( which he did ) for Japan after VE-Day. Otherwise, you were discharged. In the end, of course, it didn't much matter because VJ Day came much sooner than was expected.
Although the RCNVR and RCAF had sufficient volunteers, the Army did not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_Crisis_of_1944#Introduction_of_Conscription
As I understand it, CVSM recipients were required to sign on, full-time, for the duration of the war, and serve overseas, if required.
There was a call for volunteers, backed up with the threat of conscription, that we have not seen since World War Two.
The reason I mention the CVSM in my post is because the petition that Canadians are signing asks for the GGVSM to be retro-active to 1947, when the CVSM ended. They don't use the word "replacement", but that's what it reads like, to me:
"Since March 1st, 1947, when the issuance of a Volunteer Service Medal for our Troops ceased, it was replaced with…nothing."
The petition seems to be comparing the two medals, one replacing the other, so to speak. When in fact, we know them to be different.
I understand that draftees were not eligible for the CVSM. If they volunteered, before getting drafted, they could choose which branch of service. I have heard such cases referred to as "hand-cuff" volunteers.

I can understand the arguments both for, and against, the GGVSM. 
I have no dog in this fight. 
I would never be eligible for a GGVSM, as they already gave me the 20 year Exemplary ( I never did anything "exemplary". I just went where they sent me. ) Service Medal, with 30 year bar; "provided this service has not been recognized by another long service, good conduct or efficiency decoration or medal awarded by the Crown."

 

[Old Sweat]

You have got it a little backwards. Volunteers were awarded the CVSM in time (after all the second word in the title is Volunteer), while draftees were not, at least not until after they volunteered for General Service.  As for the number of volunteers to man the army, the 1944 shortage of infantry reinforcements was more a matter of getting the ratio of casualties for infantry and the other arms and services wrong, than it was a shortage of manpower. That is not to say that the latter was not a factor, but it was not the overriding issue.

That, of course, has nothing to do with the GGSM, which does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling at all.

 

[1feral1]

OK, at this point we're into five pages of opinion.

Based upon this completely unscientific survey, people wanting this 'medal' who:
- are actually serving in the CF:  0
- a) haven't yet started/completed BMQ, or b) aren't even in the CF: 4

Seems pretty straight-forward to me. 
If you're not IN the Canadian Forces, please don't presume to speak on our behalf  :

If this was directed at me, I think my 18 years, 11 months and 22 days as a member of the CF counts in my opinion.

Have a squizz at the views of those who signed, many are Vets, some the family of vets, and as Cdn citizens who just want some Vets to be recognised I beleive they have a rightious opinion. even this Palmer bloke is a former member with a CD.

Their expressions put forward show their pride and positivity towards Veterans, and in this day in age when there is so much negativity, this is overall for the good. To see citizens wanting something for our Vets instead of seeing them getting short changed is a good idea.

Its matter of time before something like this award comes into Canada IMHO, that I can assure you. A few disgruntled on here on this site I don't think will make a lick of difference.

Yes like I said the award works here, and there is not much difference between you and us down here. However I will conciede that the cultures of Defence here and there are growing apart. The constant whinging and bickering of such pettiness from medals to combat badges has me baffled.

IMHO serving members should not have the right to decide what awards they can or cannot have, or should have. That demonstrates selfishness, arrogance and outright contempt.

OWDU

EDITed for clairty and spelling






[/quote]

 

[Journeyman]

Have a squizz at the views of those who signed, many are Vets, some the family of vets, and as Cdn citizens who just want some Vets to be recognised I beleive they have a rightious opinion. even this Palmer bloke is a former member with a CD.

Nice rant; what's a squizz?

The bottom line, from the poll numbers at the top and the comments posted, is that serving CF members see no need for this medal. If you're that desperate for bling, join the Frontiersmen.


ps - spell check is free; give it a shot.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Journey, Australian slang

Squizz (noun) : look - "take a squizz at this"

If you guys are going to continue the mud slinging please take it to PM's........

Anyways as a guy who is due to get the "thanks for coming out medal" next year my  :2c: is that the current members of the CF don't need this proposed medal..... those that have been out since the inception (correct word?) of the CD maybe should be considered .....

EDITED TO ADD

Also maybe give it to members who have left the CF and have not been in long enough to be awarded the CD be awarded the GGSM.......

 

[Journeyman]

Journey, Australian slang

Squizz (noun) : look - "take a squizz at this"

If you guys are going to continue the mud slinging please take it to PM's........

I actually understood (and it's a verb  ). I just have this affection for the English language, used properly.

As for mud-slinging, I simply summed the comments by source; my feelings certainly weren't hurt.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Ack, Journey....

Sapper, out....

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Well it reeks of walt-ism to me. What more do those who have served need? already there's veterans plates, the RCL, regt'l assoc's and tie's/blazers, Veterans Day, Veterans Affairs Canada, Veterans Memorial Parkways.........

....The knowledge that you put your hand up and volunteered should be enough, along with the memories, t-shirts, course photos etc. Handing out a medal for like I said having a pulse and a service number cheapens both the medal itself, and the wearer.

Imagine I were stood next to a GGVSM wearer on rememberance day. Joe civvy comes up and asks the two of us: What are those medals for?

Me: 2 tours to Afghanistan with the British Army
GGVSM holder: .....well nothing, joining up and serving a specified amount of time.

Now, this is not to say that our GGVSM holder's sevice is in any way less than mine per se, but I served on ops. He didn't. Why should he get a medal for essentially working a 9-5 job (apart from Ex's), sports afternoons, adventure training etc etc.

Agree with Journeyman, if you really feel less of a man cause you have no gongs, either volunteer yourself for a tour (they're not hard to get on these days) or join the frontiersmen and buy yourself all the gongs you want.