George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Petamocto said:
The order of precedence can be found here at: Directorate of Honours and Recognition.
New Governor General Service Medal?
- Thread starter watusi77
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The order of precedence can be found here at: Directorate of Honours and Recognition.
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George,
Thank you, that posted is up in my office. Doesn't answer the question about Olympic medals, though.
It could be argued that anything that is not on that page is not allowed to be worn, but there are plenty of things not on the website/poster that are worn regularly.
I don't really need to know the answer about the Olympic medals; it was more of a tongue-in-cheek question.
Thank you, that posted is up in my office. Doesn't answer the question about Olympic medals, though.
It could be argued that anything that is not on that page is not allowed to be worn, but there are plenty of things not on the website/poster that are worn regularly.
I don't really need to know the answer about the Olympic medals; it was more of a tongue-in-cheek question.
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PIC said:
Uh, yeah, we've heard all that we need to know about that one.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
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Petamocto said:
I know; along with the "I deserve a Provincial Medal for every Province I have served in" comment I made earlier. I can't even wear my Nijmegen medal or ribbon. :'(
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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I see someone forgot their Aricept today.
To reiterate what many have said already - the CVSM's were awarded to people who volunteered for service in TIMES OF WAR, not just to show up and get a job. I have 6 medals, including a bar to my CD, all of which I believe I have earned or someone else thought I earned. I'm still waiting, as are colleagues of mine, for one to acknowledge and recognize service in Haiti and other friends are waiting for one to recognize service in Sierra Leone (alot longer than me I might add). Should I perhaps receive one with a bar recognizing every single place in Canada I've visited and worked in or at on Her Majesty's business as well? I think no - the extra cash she so generously gave me is good enough I think. Plus I have pictures. To sum up, this sort of thing just ends up clogging up the system for things that really should be recognized - ACTIVE SERVICE in an OPERATIONAL AREA.
BTW, my dad still hasn't applied for his SSM - NATO for his time in Germany in the 60's - he still has problems believing they've issued a medal for it.
MM
To reiterate what many have said already - the CVSM's were awarded to people who volunteered for service in TIMES OF WAR, not just to show up and get a job. I have 6 medals, including a bar to my CD, all of which I believe I have earned or someone else thought I earned. I'm still waiting, as are colleagues of mine, for one to acknowledge and recognize service in Haiti and other friends are waiting for one to recognize service in Sierra Leone (alot longer than me I might add). Should I perhaps receive one with a bar recognizing every single place in Canada I've visited and worked in or at on Her Majesty's business as well? I think no - the extra cash she so generously gave me is good enough I think. Plus I have pictures. To sum up, this sort of thing just ends up clogging up the system for things that really should be recognized - ACTIVE SERVICE in an OPERATIONAL AREA.
BTW, my dad still hasn't applied for his SSM - NATO for his time in Germany in the 60's - he still has problems believing they've issued a medal for it.
MM
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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OK PIC
Stop being so infantile. Give it a rest. If you can not seriously validate your point, accept that you have been defeated in this discussion.
Stop being so infantile. Give it a rest. If you can not seriously validate your point, accept that you have been defeated in this discussion.
the 48th regulator
Army.ca Fixture
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I like this medal, and think it is neat.
I support the creation, and issue of it.
dileas
tess
p.s I got a big belly, too.
I support the creation, and issue of it.
dileas
tess
p.s I got a big belly, too.
P
PIC
Guest
Obviously, everyone has there own opinion on the matter. There was however a vote on it.
May 2007. Only 98 members voted. 40.8% said yes, and 35.7% said no. I notice today there are
25,711 members. Maybe it would be a good time to vote. What do you say?
And I don't care to be attacked, that's pretty low.
I am also entitled to my own opinion.......so settle down. I make no attack on anyone.
May 2007. Only 98 members voted. 40.8% said yes, and 35.7% said no. I notice today there are
25,711 members. Maybe it would be a good time to vote. What do you say?
And I don't care to be attacked, that's pretty low.
I am also entitled to my own opinion.......so settle down. I make no attack on anyone.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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PIC said:
Your math is off: 57 per cent said NO.
P
PIC
Guest
I stand corrected. I thought the" no to expensive" was part of that.George Wallace said:
Even so, that was in 2007.
Furthermore, access to the link of this petition is completely burried within these pages, which makes the so- called
25000 member status of this site reduced to a mere clique.
You must therefore be very proud.
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I want to find a way to articulate that I agree some people who never leave Canada do more for Canada than some people who deploy overseas...without making it look like I support the medal part of it. Not just the training part, but what about people who helped actual Canadians (not Afghans) in the ice storm or floods?
The very presence of so many different types of medals debunks the idea that you should only get medals for overseas service. There are bravery/valour medals, long service medals, and being a casualty medals among many others.
Pic,
I think the obstacle you need to get over to sell your argument is to explain why a Volunteer-type medal is appropriate when everyone is a volunteer. Maybe it's just a matter of the wording.
It's like the name "Sacrifice Medal". The very name of it says nothing about combat, but the first draft of the criteria was exclusively combat so it should have been named "Combat Casualty Medal" or something. If they had done that, there wouldn't have been the sh!t storm that followed from people asking "How did my son who died in a rollover accident not sacrifice for the CF" or "How is me getting paralyzed in an airborne landing not sacrificing for the CF?".
I'm not trying to steer this thread toward that medal, I'm just using it as an example of how the wording is important.
I think a lot of the friction you are getting on this board is not necessarily idea based so much as regulation based. When it comes up that it should be time-based people bring up the CD. When it comes up that it should be volunteer-based it comes up that everyone is a volunteer.
The very presence of so many different types of medals debunks the idea that you should only get medals for overseas service. There are bravery/valour medals, long service medals, and being a casualty medals among many others.
Pic,
I think the obstacle you need to get over to sell your argument is to explain why a Volunteer-type medal is appropriate when everyone is a volunteer. Maybe it's just a matter of the wording.
It's like the name "Sacrifice Medal". The very name of it says nothing about combat, but the first draft of the criteria was exclusively combat so it should have been named "Combat Casualty Medal" or something. If they had done that, there wouldn't have been the sh!t storm that followed from people asking "How did my son who died in a rollover accident not sacrifice for the CF" or "How is me getting paralyzed in an airborne landing not sacrificing for the CF?".
I'm not trying to steer this thread toward that medal, I'm just using it as an example of how the wording is important.
I think a lot of the friction you are getting on this board is not necessarily idea based so much as regulation based. When it comes up that it should be time-based people bring up the CD. When it comes up that it should be volunteer-based it comes up that everyone is a volunteer.
One of my sons has done the ice storm, the flood, Bosnia, Kabul, Kandahar in '06, and, and....and I don't see him any different (other than the experience and the fact that he is a terrific example) than the other two, one of which did a civilian tour in Kandahar before joining, one of which is just starting out....They will all have their tours, their experiences, etc. that make up life in the military.
They don't need bling to prove they were there...the people that matter already know that.
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Yes but as someone brought up a couple pages ago, the logical end to that argument is "Well why reward anything, then?"
If people know what they did and don't need anything to show for it, why have medals for overseas service or valour? Why wear parachute wings or a diver badge?
Why accept promotions and more pay instead of saying "I'm just doing my job".
If people know what they did and don't need anything to show for it, why have medals for overseas service or valour? Why wear parachute wings or a diver badge?
Why accept promotions and more pay instead of saying "I'm just doing my job".
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Petamocto said:
You are oversimplifying the argument to suggest it as a case of "reward nothing" or "reward everything".
The question is, in each range of awards (whether that be skill badges, long service medals, valour decorations, etc.) where does the awarding agency (corps, trade, country, etc.) draw the line and say that "THIS" is the minimum level at which a visible official article of recognition will be issued.
Even if this suggestion of a new medal has merit, the point of contention remains how much time is worthy for that particular type of recognition. Since the long service medals available to Canadians were all replaced by the CD, 12 years has been that limit and that has seemed satisfactory for many years. The required argument is what should be necessary to reduce that - and still be worthy of a medal in recognition. What has changed? Lastly, if a shorter period before the initial award of a service medal is desired, is the idea of an earlier award and an extra bar to the CD, as suggested by Vern, not a viable option? Why should this proposal only be satisfied by a new medal?
R
rormson
Guest
I'm with the 40% who think this is a good idea. For sure we don't want to have our DEU's looking like those of other militaries who get a medal every time they have a tactical fart -- however, since members of the CF represent a vast minority of Canadians who have chose to serve their country their service should be recognized. Many have or will not make it to 12 years for the CD. What about those who have worked hard for 8 years, 10, etc.? We don't do enough to recognize those who have the motivation to enrol, complete training and serve their country. My $0.02
A
aesop081
Guest
I have know enough people who spent so much time on PAT platoons that they would be elligible for a medal like this without having actualy served in anything.
When people get out after X-many years and no CD, they have usualy acquired enough certificates of this and that to make themselves feel important enough.
enough already............
When people get out after X-many years and no CD, they have usualy acquired enough certificates of this and that to make themselves feel important enough.
enough already............
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WRT the CD, Canada is one of the few Commonwealth countries which as a lesser 12 years wait for this gong. Many are 15 years with 5 yrs clasps, again compared to the 10 year ones for the currrent CD. Imagine the whingers if this was changed to conform to Commonwealth standards.
Should this medal be considered, the period of 365 days IMHO would have to be changed to a much longer period.
I wonder what would happen if this award comes through and those on here who have such a negative feeling towards it are awarded one? Perhaps massive disobendience being displayed and organised? What message does that send out not only to the Canadian public, but to the Queen and Gov General?
Service from the 1940's here meant that about 1,000,000 of these 'similar'gongs had to be struck for former and serving members, and the tally even grows now.
For reference purposes, comparison, and couriousity, here is the criteria for the Australian Long Service Medal, the Australian Defence Medal, and the Cadet Forces Service Medal criteria is also below.
Defence Long Service Medal
The Defence Long Service Medal recognises 15 years diligent service by members of the regular and reserve forces.
About the award
The medal was established in 1998 on the recommendation of the 1994 Committee of Inquiry into Defence and Defence Related Awards.
The medal replaced three awards: the Defence Force Service Medal, the Reserve Force Decoration and the Reserve Force Medal.
Service that previously would have gone unrecognised when individuals moved between regular and reserve forces is acknowledged by the Defence Long Service Medal. It does not discriminate between ranks.
The Defence Long Service Medal was formally established on 26 May 1998 by Letters Patent.
How it is awarded
The Governor-General makes the award on the recommendation of the Chief of the Defence Force or his/her delegate.
Clasps may be issued for each subsequent 5 years diligent service.
The Defence Long Service Medal does not carry a post-nominal entitlement.
------------------
The ADM,
Significance
The Australian Defence Medal recognises current and former Australian Defence Force personnel who completed an initial enlistment period, or four years service, whichever was the lesser.
History
The Australian Defence Medal was established on 20 March 2006 by Letters Patent. The gazette notice is available on the Attorney-General's website.
It recognises qualifying efficient service of current and former Australian Defence Force (ADF) Regular and Reserve personnel, including National Servicemen, who have served since the end of World War II.
Regulations governing the award of the Medal were gazetted on 30 March 2006.
Past recipients
View the numbers awarded for the Australian Defence Medal.
How it is awarded
The Governor-General (or his delegate) awards the Australian Defence Medal on the recommendation of the Chief of the Defence Force (or his delegate).
The eligibility criteria requires completion of an initial enlistment period or four years service, whichever is the lesser. The criteria also includes those who could not serve the four-year qualifying period or complete an initial enlistment period for one or more of the following reasons:
•the death of a member during service;
•the discharge of the member as medically unfit due to compensable impairment;
•the discharge of the member due to a prevailing discriminatory Defence policy, as determined by the Chief of the Defence Force or his or her delegate.
The equivilant to Canada's CIC do not get the LSM or the ADM as they are not Reserves like in Canada, they have their own, the Cadet Froces Service Medal. Cadets get nothing.
Significance
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal recognises long and efficient service by officers and instructors in the Australian Cadet Forces. It is awarded for 15 years service.
History
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal was created in 1999 and is the successor to the British Cadet Forces Medal, which ceased to be issued in Australia in 1974.
The Australian medal was formally established on 15 December 1999 by Letters Patent.
Past recipients
View the numbers awarded for the Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal.
How it is awarded
The Governor-General awards the Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal or a clasp on the recommendation of the Chief of the Defence Force or his/her delegate.
Clasps may be issued for each subsequent 5 years diligent service.
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal does not carry a post-nominal entitlement.
Medal design
Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal features the Cadet Forces emblem, which is encircled by the words 'Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal'.
The medal is nickel-silver and is ensigned with the Crown of Saint Edward.
A Federation Star is displayed on the back of the medal.
Medal Ribbon
The 32 millimetre-wide ribbon features vertical stripes of the traditional long service medal colours, gold and azure-blue. This central panel is flanked by stripes of blue, red and navy, which represent links with the Royal Australian Air Force, the Australian Army and the Royal Australian Navy.
----------
Cheers,
OWDU
Should this medal be considered, the period of 365 days IMHO would have to be changed to a much longer period.
I wonder what would happen if this award comes through and those on here who have such a negative feeling towards it are awarded one? Perhaps massive disobendience being displayed and organised? What message does that send out not only to the Canadian public, but to the Queen and Gov General?
Service from the 1940's here meant that about 1,000,000 of these 'similar'gongs had to be struck for former and serving members, and the tally even grows now.
For reference purposes, comparison, and couriousity, here is the criteria for the Australian Long Service Medal, the Australian Defence Medal, and the Cadet Forces Service Medal criteria is also below.
Defence Long Service Medal
The Defence Long Service Medal recognises 15 years diligent service by members of the regular and reserve forces.
About the award
The medal was established in 1998 on the recommendation of the 1994 Committee of Inquiry into Defence and Defence Related Awards.
The medal replaced three awards: the Defence Force Service Medal, the Reserve Force Decoration and the Reserve Force Medal.
Service that previously would have gone unrecognised when individuals moved between regular and reserve forces is acknowledged by the Defence Long Service Medal. It does not discriminate between ranks.
The Defence Long Service Medal was formally established on 26 May 1998 by Letters Patent.
How it is awarded
The Governor-General makes the award on the recommendation of the Chief of the Defence Force or his/her delegate.
Clasps may be issued for each subsequent 5 years diligent service.
The Defence Long Service Medal does not carry a post-nominal entitlement.
------------------
The ADM,
Significance
The Australian Defence Medal recognises current and former Australian Defence Force personnel who completed an initial enlistment period, or four years service, whichever was the lesser.
History
The Australian Defence Medal was established on 20 March 2006 by Letters Patent. The gazette notice is available on the Attorney-General's website.
It recognises qualifying efficient service of current and former Australian Defence Force (ADF) Regular and Reserve personnel, including National Servicemen, who have served since the end of World War II.
Regulations governing the award of the Medal were gazetted on 30 March 2006.
Past recipients
View the numbers awarded for the Australian Defence Medal.
How it is awarded
The Governor-General (or his delegate) awards the Australian Defence Medal on the recommendation of the Chief of the Defence Force (or his delegate).
The eligibility criteria requires completion of an initial enlistment period or four years service, whichever is the lesser. The criteria also includes those who could not serve the four-year qualifying period or complete an initial enlistment period for one or more of the following reasons:
•the death of a member during service;
•the discharge of the member as medically unfit due to compensable impairment;
•the discharge of the member due to a prevailing discriminatory Defence policy, as determined by the Chief of the Defence Force or his or her delegate.
The equivilant to Canada's CIC do not get the LSM or the ADM as they are not Reserves like in Canada, they have their own, the Cadet Froces Service Medal. Cadets get nothing.
Significance
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal recognises long and efficient service by officers and instructors in the Australian Cadet Forces. It is awarded for 15 years service.
History
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal was created in 1999 and is the successor to the British Cadet Forces Medal, which ceased to be issued in Australia in 1974.
The Australian medal was formally established on 15 December 1999 by Letters Patent.
Past recipients
View the numbers awarded for the Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal.
How it is awarded
The Governor-General awards the Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal or a clasp on the recommendation of the Chief of the Defence Force or his/her delegate.
Clasps may be issued for each subsequent 5 years diligent service.
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal does not carry a post-nominal entitlement.
Medal design
Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal
The Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal features the Cadet Forces emblem, which is encircled by the words 'Australian Cadet Forces Service Medal'.
The medal is nickel-silver and is ensigned with the Crown of Saint Edward.
A Federation Star is displayed on the back of the medal.
Medal Ribbon
The 32 millimetre-wide ribbon features vertical stripes of the traditional long service medal colours, gold and azure-blue. This central panel is flanked by stripes of blue, red and navy, which represent links with the Royal Australian Air Force, the Australian Army and the Royal Australian Navy.
----------
Cheers,
OWDU
- Reaction score
- 3,106
- Points
- 1,160
Off topic kinda but not really, but I'd sooner see anybody who spent one day in this country's uniform receive the Order of Canada than Celine Dion, Brian Adams, Sue Johanson, or Henry Mogentaller.
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Overwatch Downunder said:
Thank you.
Now that the fact that the Australians have service medals has been posted once again, we can assume that any further posts on Australian medals will be a repetitive waste of bandwidth in discussing a Canadian medal proposal?
Or did you want to start a special thread where you can post the details of every Commonwealth long service medal for our reference?
the 48th regulator
Army.ca Fixture
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http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/providers/sub.cfm?source=forces/nvc/infoKits/ServiceBenefits#Item2-1
A CF Veteran is a former member of the Canadian Forces who has:
* been released with an honourable discharge; and
* met all the professional military occupational classification requirements of the Department of National Defence (DND).
Please note: This definition recognizes you as a CF Veteran but other criteria are needed to qualify for VAC benefits.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?cat=02&id=1612
In 2001, the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada refined the definition of a veteran to recognize all former CF members, Regular and Reserve, who have met both DND’s Military Occupational Classification (MOC) requirements and have been honourably discharged. Many members of the CF have previous service and are therefore currently considered Veterans.
Being a Veteran, has already been given a Criteria by DND, and recognized by VAC.
Just a point, so as we do not mistake what a Veteran is....
dileas
tess
A CF Veteran is a former member of the Canadian Forces who has:
* been released with an honourable discharge; and
* met all the professional military occupational classification requirements of the Department of National Defence (DND).
Please note: This definition recognizes you as a CF Veteran but other criteria are needed to qualify for VAC benefits.
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?cat=02&id=1612
In 2001, the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada refined the definition of a veteran to recognize all former CF members, Regular and Reserve, who have met both DND’s Military Occupational Classification (MOC) requirements and have been honourably discharged. Many members of the CF have previous service and are therefore currently considered Veterans.
Being a Veteran, has already been given a Criteria by DND, and recognized by VAC.
Just a point, so as we do not mistake what a Veteran is....
dileas
tess
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