New Dress Regs 🤣

[daftandbarmy]

HB, I think that % also varies by service. I’d argue that SSM is closer to being substantive/majority in the RCAF. Any service that comes up with an operationally-functional goretex raincoat that keeps you dry AND has fleece-lined pockets probably get greater personnel buy-in than one that keeps you in a cheap plastic one that smells like dog vomit and keeps more sweat inside than it protects from rain outside.

And then make sure that they don't put it on when it's raining because 'the noise will give you away'.

Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen

 

[KevinB]

HB, I think that % also varies by service. I’d argue that SSM is closer to being substantive/majority in the RCAF. Any service that comes up with an operationally-functional goretex raincoat that keeps you dry AND has fleece-lined pockets probably get greater personnel buy-in than one that keeps you in a cheap plastic one that smells like dog vomit and keeps more sweat inside than it protects from rain outside.

I was issued a British DPM Gortex Rain coat.
It was fantastic, and it absolutely infuriated many people, so I wore it many times I didn’t need to that and the Norwegian sweater.

I often felt than the best way to fix Clothe the Solider was to make everyone involved in that program do three months in Wainwright wearing the kit they felt was acceptable for general issue.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I was issued a British DPM Gortex Rain coat.
It was fantastic, and it absolutely infuriated many people, so I wore it many times I didn’t need to that and the Norwegian sweater.

And the trousers actually fit properly... saved my life a couple of times did 'Gary Gore-tex', as he was known

 

[Brad Sallows]

We're often in the habit of doing things just because we've been doing those things forever, long after doing those things have had any benefit (assuming they ever did). But as the saying goes, tradition is just peer pressure from dead people.

In this specific case, there is some truth in that. But as a general principle, no: look up "Chesterton's Fence" (ie. if you want to do away with something, the onus is on you to prove it is superceded or unnecessary).

 

[Brad Sallows]

The same argument about hair, etc applies to uniform. Why not have a selection of hats and shoes and whatnot for each order of dress and allow people to choose what to wear for a particular order?

 

[btrudy]

In this specific case, there is some truth in that. But as a general principle, no: look up "Chesterton's Fence" (ie. if you want to do away with something, the onus is on you to prove it is superceded or unnecessary).

Stacking the deck in favour of the status quo is only reasonable when the status quo is clearly working well. Given the myriad of issues that the CAF is facing in, well, every aspect of doing its business, I don't think that's reasonable.

The same argument about hair, etc applies to uniform. Why not have a selection of hats and shoes and whatnot for each order of dress and allow people to choose what to wear for a particular order?

You mean like choosing to wear 3Bs with or without a sweater, long or short sleeved, oxfords or ankle boots, etc etc? NCDs with or without a jacket, rolled or unrolled sleeves, etc? Ball caps or berets or peak caps (as applicable)?

Yeah, that's be terrible.

 

[Brad Sallows]

On parade?

 

[btrudy]

On parade?

Sure; while I generally think most parades are a giant waste of resources, mandating a particular order of dress is reasonable for them.

I don't get why people here seem to be focusing so much on them though. What about the other 362 days of the year? Allowing flexibility in what people wear when they do their job day to day, in accordance with what they find most comfortable is going to result in people being more comfortable, and thus happier, with better morale, and therefore will aid in retention.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Bread and circuses. Our senior officer corps are a bunch of drunken frat boys in Daytona Beach, our air defence is non existent, our navy is rotting out from the waterline up, our anti armour is sadly lacking, the infantry can't have it's own method of indirect fire, our land vehicle fleet is aging out, but let the troops wear whatever they want and look like whatever they want, and that will fix everything. Let them eat cake, works every time, just don't look behind the curtain.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The same argument about hair, etc applies to uniform. Why not have a selection of hats and shoes and whatnot for each order of dress and allow people to choose what to wear for a particular order?

I'm sorry Brad, but when I read that, I envisioned a reviewing party showing up in a clown car or maybe the Legion of Frontiersmen

 

[ArmyRick]

Fook it! This retired WO says line up all the senior officers in the CAF on the parade square for a healthy evening of kit inspections, remedial foot drill and and change parades. I volunteer to run this.

What will this accomplish? Not a damn thing but at least I will be entertained. It will be as useful as the CAF constantly changing miniscule rules that amount to nothing.

People are getting out or not joining in the first place has nothing to do with woke dress policies. Seriously, offer adventure, CHALLENGE (physical and mental), skills, job satisfaction and team comradery are much better temptations than pointless dress regulations changes.

 

[kev994]

Bread and circuses. Our senior officer corps are a bunch of drunken frat boys in Daytona Beach, our air defence is non existent, our navy is rotting out from the waterline up, our anti armour is sadly lacking, the infantry can't have it's own method of indirect fire, our land vehicle fleet is aging out, but let the troops wear whatever they want and look like whatever they want, and that will fix everything. Let them eat cake, works every time, just don't look behind the curtain.

We like to start with the 'low hanging fruit' but never seem to be able to organize a ladder.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Allowing flexibility in what people wear

I agree. But rather than move former arbitrary boundaries to some new arbitrary boundaries that suit the people asking for them, just identify all the arbitrary boundaries and remove them entirely. And if there's some reason to not remove them, then apply that same reason to whatever people are asking to change right now.

 

[btrudy]

Fook it! This retired WO says line up all the senior officers in the CAF on the parade square for a healthy evening of kit inspections, remedial foot drill and and change parades. I volunteer to run this.

What will this accomplish? Not a damn thing but at least I will be entertained. It will be as useful as the CAF constantly changing miniscule rules that amount to nothing.

People are getting out or not joining in the first place has nothing to do with woke dress policies. Seriously, offer adventure, CHALLENGE (physical and mental), skills, job satisfaction and team comradery are much better temptations than pointless dress regulations changes.

Right, if the situation is already bad, might as well make it worse, right?

 

[btrudy]

I agree. But rather than move former arbitrary boundaries to some new arbitrary boundaries that suit the people asking for them, just identify all the arbitrary boundaries and remove them entirely. And if there's some reason to not remove them, then apply that same reason to whatever people are asking to change right now.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that this is exactly what the proposed changes are accomplishing.

 

[Good2Golf]

People are getting out or not joining in the first place has nothing to do with woke dress policies. Seriously, offer adventure, CHALLENGE (physical and mental), skills, job satisfaction and team comradery are much better temptations than pointless dress regulations changes.

…and better HR…currently a blend of limited competence, unresponsive policies and discretionary vindictiveness. Certainly not the marks of an “employer of choice.”

 

[daftandbarmy]

Fook it! This retired WO says line up all the senior officers in the CAF on the parade square for a healthy evening of kit inspections, remedial foot drill and and change parades. I volunteer to run this.

What will this accomplish? Not a damn thing but at least I will be entertained. It will be as useful as the CAF constantly changing miniscule rules that amount to nothing.

People are getting out or not joining in the first place has nothing to do with woke dress policies. Seriously, offer adventure, CHALLENGE (physical and mental), skills, job satisfaction and team comradery are much better temptations than pointless dress regulations changes.

 

[Good2Golf]

I'm sorry Brad, but when I read that, I envisioned a reviewing party showing up in a clown car or maybe the Legion of FrontiersmenView attachment 70269

Not sure I’d trust the Klingon second from the right

 

[Brad Sallows]

People are getting out or not joining in the first place has nothing to do with woke dress policies.

If the 70s-era work dress couldn't keep people out or convince them to leave, dress is not that big an issue.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If the 70s-era work dress couldn't keep people out or convince them to leave, dress is not that big an issue.

Except that, in the 70s, all members were from the Baby Boomer generation which, as we know, is a generation that is different from the current crop of recruits...