New Crown

[Stonegeneral]

I can't say I'm a fan of letting the PM draw up some new crown on his own because the symbols on a real crown the Sovereign wears hurts his feelings. This is one of the few occasions where the King can actually make his own decision, given how little this Government has done to recognize Elizabeth II's Platinum Jubilee, Her death, or the King's coronation, they hardly seem to have earned the right to unilaterally alter his personal symbols, arms and cyphers.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The last King Charles who thought he could do as he pleased had his head cut off.

It isn’t doing as he please, its following OUR laws and constitution. The fact they choose not to utilize their powers doesn’t mean they do not exist in our current system.

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting... Seeing as the Tudor Crown features heavily on the official Canadian Coronation emblem designed and approved by the Canadian Heraldic Authority....View attachment 77473

I see that I can only see "The Sun King" and "KIng Charles". None of the three of them did well in the Democracy Sweepstakes.

 

[Edward Campbell]

To stir the pot . . . it's taking the traditional Canadian approach of changing buttons and bows rather than dealing with the uncomfortable truth that the head upon which the crown is to be placed is not would not be first choice as absentee head of state if choice was given.

Or has opinion changed in ten years.

Electoral Reform (Senate, Commons, & Gov Gen)

Under no circumstance should Canada be lead by an unelected person. I don't remember anyone voting for this guy...

army.ca

The problem is that in 1981 Pierre Trudeau was so intent on getting language rights embedded in the written Constitution that he agreed to entrench the monarchy (and the notwithstanding clause) into the bits of the Constitution that are nearly impossible to amend without 100% buy-in. It doesn't matter what 99.99% of the Canadian people want, no one gives a flying frig: we got language rights and a remote, unelected monarch, forever.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The problem is that in 1981 Pierre Trudeau was so intent on getting language rights embedded in the written Constitution that he agreed to entrench the monarchy (and the notwithstanding clause) into the bits of the Constitution that are nearly impossible to amend without 100% buy-in. It doesn't matter what 99.99% of the Canadian people want, no one gives a flying frig: we got language rights and a remote, unelected monarch, forever.

Nothing is forever my friend.

 

[Furniture]

Nothing is forever my friend.

In this case it's unlikely to change until Canada ceases to exist as a nation.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Nothing is forever my friend.

Furniture beat me to it. True enough, but a full-blown Constitutional Convention - where, as PET himself noted, provinces can "trade right s for fish" - is unlikely in my lifetime or yours or in the lifetime of my grandchildren (who are immune from our political nonsense because they're Australians) unless there is a very real and immediate threat to the existence of Canada - a province voting to secede, for example.

A week or so after the Coronation we will all ignore the whole matter, as we do for 99% of the time.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Furniture beat me to it. True enough, but a full-blown Constitutional Convention - where, as PET himself noted, provinces can "trade right s for fish" - is unlikely in my lifetime or yours or in the lifetime of my grandchildren (who are immune from our political nonsense because they're Australians) unless there is a very real and immediate threat to the existence of Canada - a province voting to secede, for example.

A week or so after the Coronation we will all ignore the whole matter, as we do for 99% of the time.

Until a point when the critical mass of the population can no longer be ignored.

What happens if the UK does away with the Royal Family ?

 

[FSTO]

The whole affair about the actual head the crown rests on is due to Charles unpopularity. If he and Diana could have continued the fairy tale, her presence alone would mitigate Charles's shortcomings. But that didn't happen and because its an old white guy, a society that adores youth is not supportive of the person. The institution? Our system of Government? Canadian society is totally confused with how a Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary system is supposed to work because of the Cultural Tsunami from the Republic to the south, and the trend of this and previous governments to neuter parliament and centralize power to the PMO.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... don't get me started on the maple leaf! That terror symbol represents the violation and theft from trees without their consent ...

Don't forget that when Canada got its Maple Leaf flag in the mid-60's, there was a fair bit of opposition to losing the old flag, too, with six weeks of Commons debate & filibustering leading to a 163 to 78 vote in favour of it. "Why can't things be like in the old days?" isn't a new thing in heraldry here

 

[lenaitch]

The whole affair about the actual head the crown rests on is due to Charles unpopularity. If he and Diana could have continued the fairy tale, her presence alone would mitigate Charles's shortcomings. But that didn't happen and because its an old white guy, a society that adores youth is not supportive of the person. The institution? Our system of Government? Canadian society is totally confused with how a Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary system is supposed to work because of the Cultural Tsunami from the Republic to the south, and the trend of this and previous governments to neuter parliament and centralize power to the PMO.

This. For most of the population this will be gone from their minds in a week until the next Royal visit. Most people don't understand how our system works and tend to overlook/not understand how the reserved powers of the Crown (not to be confused with the person who wears it) are exercised "on the advice and consent of" elected representatives.

Of course we could move away from our current systems; many nations have done it. But I'm not sure there is any kind of consensus on who or what represents 'the State'. Separate Head of Government and Head of State or combined like the US? Elected or appointed? By whom? Party affiliation? This just scratches the surface because so much of our system is based on parliamentary tradition. In my casual conversations, most people don't understand this issue beyond 'let's get rid of".

 

[AKa]

I personally am happy to have a non-elected head of state. Our main parties have consistently failed to present leaders that would appeal to moderate Canadians. (And I am a very moderate Canadian.) I frequently find our elected head of government to be ...embarrassing.

While His Majesty is not of the same mettle as his mother, he understands duty and has conducted himself with dignity in recent years. And I do give him credit for his passion for the environment. He was talking about the issue of plastics long before it was fashionable. And his heir is smart, popular, seems to have taken the hard lessons of his parents to heart, and most importantly, has a strong, capable, sensible, and personable partner.

Since I don't see any likelihood that Canada will elect a PM in the near term with any degree of gravitas, I'm happy to likely have the monarchy for the remainder of my life.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I personally am happy to have a non-elected head of state. Our main parties have consistently failed to present leaders that would appeal to moderate Canadians. (And I am a very moderate Canadian.) I frequently find our elected head of government to be ...embarrassing.

While His Majesty is not of the same mettle as his mother, he understands duty and has conducted himself with dignity in recent years. And I do give him credit for his passion for the environment. He was talking about the issue of plastics long before it was fashionable. And his heir is smart, popular, seems to have taken the hard lessons of his parents to heart, and most importantly, has a strong, capable, sensible, and personable partner.

Since I don't see any likelihood that Canada will elect a PM in the near term with any degree of gravitas, I'm happy to likely have the monarchy for the remainder of my life.

I respect your position. But the Royalty is an empty vessel in Canada, its ceremonial at best. If they (through the GG) dared go against the wishes of the people (HoC and Senate) I think you would see a swift move to get rid of them.

Are you hoping that one day they would swoop in save us from our shit political class ?

 

[AKa]

I respect your position. But the Royalty is an empty vessel in Canada, its ceremonial at best. If they (through the GG) dared go against the wishes of the people (HoC and Senate) I think you would see a swift move to get rid of them.

Are you hoping that one day they would swoop in save us from our shit political class ?

Of course not. I like the ceremonial, no actual exercised power aspect of it all.

The crown is a symbol. Symbols have their own power. And the monarchy is a link to our history. Our history is not pretty or glorious. It is messy, often brutal and was usually flagrantly unfair. Which in my mind suggests we need to reflect on it more, not seek to erase the visible reminders.

The monarchy is more than the sum of the parts. People react to Kings and Princesses in a way most elected leaders can't duplicate. When you read a historical plaque, it has more impact if the Queen opened this facility than the Right Honourable PM of the day. Maybe it goes back to the fairytales of our childhood, but there is a something extra about the monarchy that is hard to define that people react to. And goodness knows much of the USA is fascinated by the monarchy. Just look at the front pages of the tabloids.

And it is also fun to instruct the young wannabe princesses about how demanding and not-fun life as an actual princess is. Then they usually decide life would be better as a YouTuber

 

[lenaitch]

I respect your position. But the Royalty is an empty vessel in Canada, its ceremonial at best. If they (through the GG) dared go against the wishes of the people (HoC and Senate) I think you would see a swift move to get rid of them.

Are you hoping that one day they would swoop in save us from our shit political class ?

So would we be looking for our own empty vessel or figure head? The concept is not without merit, but I'm not sure it would change much. A Head of State is meant to represent the State, not be it. Represent something that endures beyond the election cycle and party politics. Nobody ever went to war for 'Prime Minister and Country'.

In non-combined states, the titles, roles and authorities of the two positions are variable, but without looking (no cheating), who can name the person in the 'other' position from the one we typically know from the media and therefore arguably has actual power, and these are just the highlights:

France (prime minister)
Iran (president)
Israel (president)
North Korea (premier)
Russia (prime minister)
Ukraine (prime minister)

 

[Halifax Tar]

Of course not. I like the ceremonial, no actual exercised power aspect of it all.

The crown is a symbol. Symbols have their own power. And the monarchy is a link to our history. Our history is not pretty or glorious. It is messy, often brutal and was usually flagrantly unfair. Which in my mind suggests we need to reflect on it more, not seek to erase the visible reminders.

The monarchy is more than the sum of the parts. People react to Kings and Princesses in a way most elected leaders can't duplicate. When you read a historical plaque, it has more impact if the Queen opened this facility than the Right Honourable PM of the day. Maybe it goes back to the fairytales of our childhood, but there is a something extra about the monarchy that is hard to define that people react to. And goodness knows much of the USA is fascinated by the monarchy. Just look at the front pages of the tabloids.

And it is also fun to instruct the young wannabe princesses about how demanding and not-fun life as an actual princess is. Then they usually decide life would be better as a YouTuber

So, nostalgia. Good and bad.

Which is fine. And as long and the GG and the Royal Family are lap dogs and don't actually do anything to go against elected/appointed Gov. They can stay in their corner.

In the online survey of a representative national sample, only 19% of Canadians say they would prefer for Canada to remain a monarchy, down 12 points since a similar Research Co. poll conducted in September 2022

Fewer than One-in-Five Canadians Want Monarchy to Continue

Positive perceptions of six senior members of the Royal Family—including King Charles III—are lower now than in September 2022.

researchco.ca

So would we be looking for our own empty vessel or figure head? The concept is not without merit, but I'm not sure it would change much. A Head of State is meant to represent the State, not be it. Represent something that endures beyond the election cycle and party politics. Nobody ever went to war for 'Prime Minister and Country'.

In non-combined states, the titles, roles and authorities of the two positions are variable, but without looking (no cheating), who can name the person in the 'other' position from the one we typically know from the media and therefore arguably has actual power, and these are just the highlights:

France (prime minister)
Iran (president)
Israel (president)
North Korea (premier)
Russia (prime minister)
Ukraine (prime minister)

You would probably be right to coin me as a republican. I like my representation elected. Not some birth right from a fictitious man in the sky.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Meh, another mini crisis designed to take our eyes off of the real news.

I still fly the Red Ensign along with the Maple Leaf. I still use the old words to O, Canada.

I'll decide how I want to define my country, not some transient globalist politician with an axe to grind.

Rather than get all spun up about this, I'd rather know the tentacles that Red China has encircled us with under this government. I want to know where the billions of unaccounted taxpayer money has gone. I want to see an end to this climate voodoo shit.

I can't even remember the last time I payed any kind of attention to our Coat of Arms.

We have to keep...................................SQUIRREL!!!

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

I can't say I'm a fan of letting the PM draw up some new crown on his own because the symbols on a real crown the Sovereign wears hurts his feelings. This is one of the few occasions where the King can actually make his own decision, given how little this Government has done to recognize Elizabeth II's Platinum Jubilee, Her death, or the King's coronation, they hardly seem to have earned the right to unilaterally alter his personal symbols, arms and cyphers.

I strongly disagree, our world famous socking wearing PM showed up the Queen's funeral. He was dressed in matching socks and underwear, and he performed as the Piano Man in some hotel bar. I am sure the real Piano Man ( Billy Joel ) was offended and outraged and mostly likely more than the average Canadian because of the poor quality of performance as the Piano Man. What did you expect from this leader, his party under his leadership wants to dump all comments, questions and loyalty to the crown, history or context in the recycle bin. This is why there will never be a Canadian VC awarded because it shows ties to the British Empire and history. Sock Man showed up and preformed. All expectations were met.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think deciding on a fixed crown would save the hassle of updating all the heraldry every single time there was a change, as it flows down to things like badges. The LOE, time and expense we'll go through if we switch the RCN cap badges to the tudor crown is ridiculous, especially when the different is it's a single arc instead of two arcs, and literally no one outside some monarchists/anti monarchists cares.

I'd prefer if we just decided to stick with the current St. Edwards style crown and just call it a day though. The differences are so minimal you won't be able to even really tell on our lowest compliant bidder badges. Doing up some kind of Canadian crown is just embarassing.

 

[Furniture]

I think deciding on a fixed crown would save the hassle of updating all the heraldry every single time there was a change, as it flows down to things like badges. The LOE, time and expense we'll go through if we switch the RCN cap badges to the tudor crown is ridiculous, especially when the different is it's a single arc instead of two arcs, and literally no one outside some monarchists/anti monarchists cares.

I'd prefer if we just decided to stick with the current St. Edwards style crown and just call it a day though. The differences are so minimal you won't be able to even really tell on our lowest compliant bidder badges. Doing up some kind of Canadian crown is just embarassing.

I'm not opposed to a uniquely Canadian crown, I just have zero faith in the GoC to come up with something that doesn't look stupid.