Canadian Military Arms Export

[FormerHorseGuard]

Reasons for sale to go a head in my opinion.

1) Not like this is true Canadian made product, or design, or Canadian solely  owned Company ( even if total Canadian owned Company) they would just move production to a more friendly Nation to provide cheaper labour, lower taxes and most of easier export rules and shipping routes.
This plant also use to make locomotives, now made 100 percent in the US and Mexico. Moving the other side of the operation is totally possible

2) Since this has US made parts and gear involved in its manufacturing , US government has to approve export and final user approval. The US owned Company  could just move all production and design work to the US, and skip any  Canadian content or labour force, no money flow in Ontario

3) By having the manufacturing line in Canada, it helps sell the product to Canadian Armed Forces as it will meet Canadian content rules, and provide long term employment.

4) Keeping the production line up and running means Canadian labour force skills are kept up and current when it comes building the next line of Canadian LAVs or what  ever they  pick. we cannot rebuild or upgrade tanks in Canada without using over seas companies, lets not lose this work force and skill set for AFV also

5) HLVW was a totally made in Canada product, once the order was built and turned over to the CF, the line and plant in Kingston was closed. Huge waste of money, one time deal, one time labour force, all skills and money invested gone.

6) Who is going to pick up the cost of this order if the Government orders it to be cancelled , we would never buy that  many lavs and be able to maintain them Some would most likely  rot before they saw any  training or action time.

7) votes and votes and more  votes, another plant closure in that area will not make happy  voters
just my  opinions

 

[George Wallace]

5) HLVW was a totally made assembled in Canada product, once the order was built and turned over to the CF, the line and plant in Kingston was closed. Huge waste of money, one time deal, one time labour force, all skills and money invested gone.

Many of the HLVW parts were manufactured in Austria and shipped to Kingston for assembly.  Just because "Steyr" was replaced by "UTDC" on the hoods of the model 1491 Percheron trucks, does not make them Canadian.

 

[McG]

If we do not continue with the Saudi deal, I suspect the LAV factory in London ON will very quickly find itself relocating to a US city.  At best, the government might keep it alive for a few years if we buy LAV 6.0 quickly to fill the requirements being defined in the AHSVS project (TLAV & Bison replacement), and maybe also get an additional number of infantry section carriers and artillery observer vehicles to match the numbers that were intended from CCV..

Half of Canadians disagree with sticking by Saudi arms deal, poll suggests
40% say normalizing relations and lifting sanctions against Iran would be good for Canada
By Éric Grenier, for CBC News
29 Feb 2016

The Saudi arms deal is one that Canadians wish the government would refuse, a new poll suggests.

The poll, from the Angus Reid Institute, shows that only 19 per cent of Canadians think the government's decision to stick by the deal to sell light-armoured vehicles to the desert kingdom is a good one, with 48 per cent of Canadians thinking the opposite.

The remaining one-third of respondents were unsure.

The $15-billion deal with Saudi Arabia, signed under the previous Conservative government, has become increasingly controversial as the Middle Eastern country intensifies its involvement in a civil war in Yemen. It has led to calls for the government to abandon the deal, notably by former Liberal cabinet minister and human rights lawyer Irwin Cotler.

The poll was conducted in early February, when the issue was being widely covered in the media and being discussed on a near daily basis on Parliament Hill. But the poll was also conducted before Cotler's most recent statements on the deal in the Globe and Mail and reports of Canadian weapons being used in the war in Yemen emerged.

Cotler is not the only Liberal with some concerns about the deal. The poll suggests that Canadians who voted for the Liberals in the last election think standing by the deal is a bad decision by a two-to-one margin. Conservatives are more split but still look on the deal negatively, with 27 per cent thinking it a good decision and 35 per cent a bad one.

Dealing with the Saudis could cause some political trouble for the Liberals. The poll found that about half of Canadians think the country should have no ties or co-operation with Saudi Arabia, and 54 per cent said they were more inclined to condemn the Saudi government than to respect it (10 per cent).

... 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-saudi-arms-deal-1.3469205

 

[CBH99]

I agree with FormerHorseGuard,

People may be opposed to the sale of the vehicles for moral reasons, BUT - they will be even more-so opposed to the loss of thousands of Canadian jobs in an area that is consistently recessed.

At the end of the day, the Saudi will get their vehicles.  If we cancel the deal, we stand the lose thousands of well paid & skilled jobs, and they will still get their vehicles.

If we were the only possible source for this type of capability for them, we may have some leverage to ensure they are not used to oppress their own people.  If we were the only possible source of this capability, we could attempt to put some pretty strict rules on their use. 

But, we aren't.  Plenty of other countries out there, plenty of other companies, and plenty of other AFV models to choose from.  If someone is going to be paid $15B, it may as well be us.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Look, Kilo_302 I have nothing but contempt for the House of Saud and it's ramshackle country; I will not shed a tear when the Saudi royal family disappears in an orgy of Arab retribution and when the country is divided amongst its warring tribes and/or conquerors ... but until then let's sell them the hardware they need to abuse their own people and threaten their neighbours; it can only hasten their demise.

Having met the internal security apparatus in KSA and taken their PRD's back home for consideration, I agree they are truly ominous and dark. No sense of humour at all, about as dedicated as the SS.
But what is more frightening are some of the assholes they are trying to put down, and it is not just and amorphous or an existential threat to world security. There are at least a few hundred thousand crazies wandering around in that country with the potential to incite extreme radicalization amongst hundreds of millions in the region. Better the devil you know, and in my mind we may not be selling them enough chain guns to deal with the problem ...