New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[The Bread Guy]

Stand by for an announcement Monday morning Vancouver time

And here it is ....

The Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Public Works and Government Services, joined by the Honourable James Moore, Minister of Industry and Regional Minister for British Columbia, today announced that Vancouver Shipyards will be building up to 10 additional large non-combat ships for the Canadian Coast Guard fleet at an estimated cost of $3.3 billion.

Minister Finley made the announcement during a visit to Vancouver Shipyards, which was selected to build the non-combat package of vessels through the Government’s National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy (NSPS).

“The decision supports the long-term benefits of the Government’s National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy in creating a sustainable shipbuilding industry once again here in Canada,” said Minister Finley.

“The National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy is a key priority of the Harper Government as we create jobs and generate significant economic benefits in shipbuilding and other industries all across Canada,” added Minister Finley. “Today’s announcement illustrates our commitment to eliminating boom and bust cycles, while providing best value for taxpayers, and ensuring affordable and timely delivery of ships.”

This significant investment will enable the Coast Guard to acquire up to five Medium Endurance Multi-Tasked Vessels and up to five Offshore Patrol Vessels ....

Don't know if it's related, but 2 hours later, reporters get to read some documents in Ottawa about "a new Defence initiative" and get to talk to people they're not allowed to identify.

Still have to wait and see....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So is that before or after they figure out the support ship or icebreaker issue?

 

[The Bread Guy]

So is that before or after they figure out the support ship or icebreaker issue?

I wonder if the CF/DND technical briefing is all about that side of the shipbuilding coin?

 

[Privateer]

Announced:  Joint Support Ships to be built before Polar Icebreaker:  http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?mthd=tp&crtr.page=1&nid=780089&crtr.tp1D=1

GATINEAU, Quebec, October 11, 2013 – The National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy (NSPS) Secretariat today announced that Vancouver Shipyards will commence construction on the Joint Support Ships, followed by the Polar Icebreaker, under the NSPS non-combat package. It is expected that construction will begin in late 2016.

...

As a result of this decision, the Canadian Coast Guard is taking the necessary measures to keep the CCGS Louis S. St-Laurent in service until the Polar Icebreaker is delivered.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I bet the CCG is feverishly planning how to reduce the usage of the Louie to preserve it for Northern ops and reduce usage below the 60°. They could lease a another smaller icebreaker to use in the southern climes on the east coast.

 

[yoman]

Shipbuilding scheduling conflict means taxpayers on the hook for an extra $55-million
Lee Berthiaume, Postmedia News

OTTAWA — Canadian taxpayers will be forced to shell out an extra $55-million due to a scheduling conflict in the federal government’s national shipbuilding strategy, senior officials have confirmed.

At the same time, Canada’s navy will be forced to rely on its allies for up to two years to provide it with “essential” resupply capabilities, during which time its ability to conduct independent maritime operations will be dramatically reduced.

The Royal Canadian Navy and Canadian Coast Guard have been in fits in recent months as each has major shipbuilding projects scheduled to be ready for construction at the same time in the coming years.

But the Vancouver shipyard slated to build them can only handle one project at a time, meaning work on either the navy’s new resupply ships or the coast guard’s new heavy icebreaker will have to be delayed.

On Friday, the government announced the resupply ships will be built first, and that construction of the icebreaker will be pushed back several years.

As a result, the government will have to spend an additional $55-million to keep the coast guard’s existing heavy icebreaker, the CCGS Louis S. St-Laurent, in the water until its replacement is in the water in 2022.

The 44-year-old St-Laurent was due to be retired in 2017.

“We’re going to have to do some work on her pretty well every year to keep her operational through the summer seasons in the Arctic and the winter seasons during our icebreaking season in the south,” an official said of the St-Laurent during a technical briefing.

Despite going with the new resupply ships first, officials also confirmed that the navy’s existing resupply vessels, HMCS Protecteur and Preserver, will be retired around 2017 — two years before their replacements are ready.

That will leave a gap of 18 to 24 months during which the navy will be forced to rely on its allies when it comes to carrying extra fuel, spare parts and even extra helicopters on overseas missions.

That will essentially eliminate the navy’s ability to conduct extended naval operations on its own.

Exacerbating the problem is another delay — described by one official as “a bit of a slip” — that will push back construction of the resupply ships from 2015 to late 2016, at the earliest.

The officials, who cannot be named because of Conservative government rules, said they knew several years ago there might be a scheduling conflict between the new resupply vessels and icebreaker.

However, they sought to avoid responsibility for any mismanagement, though they did not say what led to the scheduling conflict in the first place.

“We did everything possible to eliminate any conflict,” one said. “It was a known risk. As it became a fact, we started to work on it.”

Plans to acquire new resupply ships were initially announced in 2004, with an expectation that a contract for three ships would be awarded in 2008 and the first delivered in 2012.

However, the plan was scrapped in 2009 after industry reported the $2.1-billion budget set aside by the Conservative government was insufficient.

The budget is now $2.6-billion, and officials say they only expect to be able to purchase two new vessels.

The new icebreaker, which has been christened the CCGS John G. Diefenbaker, is expected to cost $720-million. Officials said they are confident that budget will be sufficient despite the delay in construction.

The Conservative government has held up the $38-billion national shipbuilding plan as a glowing success story that will re-energize Canada’s Navy and Coast Guard, while simultaneously creating thousands of jobs on both coasts and transforming Canada into a world-class shipbuilding nation.

However, an auditor general’s report to be released this fall on the federal government’s vaunted national shipbuilding plan is expected to raise concerns about the way the overall budget was set, and argue the money is not nearly enough to do what the government has promised.

That will again put the Conservative government’s reputation for being strong fiscal managers and champions of Canada’s military under the gun — though this time with thousands of jobs in Vancouver and Halifax on the line.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/11/shipbuilding-scheduling-conflict-means-taxpayers-on-the-hook-for-an-extra-55-million/

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Sheesh it's been public knowledge for quite some time that both needed to be replaced asap and that only 1 could be started first, it's not a big secret and it's the end result of many governments mismanaging the fleets in a irresponsible manner.  I not sure anyone could have done a better job on such a hot potato issue such as this.

 

[MilEME09]

Just out of Curiosity, Can they only build one at a time due to space? or lack of workers?

 

[MarkOttawa]

Meanwhile a private Canadian shipping company can get an icebreaker from Japan in about a year:
http://www.cdfai.org/the3dsblog/?p=1599

Go figure.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Monsoon]

Meanwhile a private Canadian shipping company can get an icebreaker from Japan in about a year:
http://www.cdfai.org/the3dsblog/?p=1599

Go figure.

Mark
Ottawa

Yeah, it's a real mystery why the NSPS Secretariat, whose explicit purpose is to develop Canada' maritime industrial infrastructure by providing a stream of steady work over the course of decades, wouldn't have recommended the government go with the buy-in-Japan option.  :

 

[MarkOttawa]

The secretariat has no say in the matter.  Build-in-Canada is the policy of this--and any other gov't--regardless of how ridiculously expensive and perishgly slow it be.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MilEME09]

Now i'm not an expert but it sounds like our industries just aren't built up to be able to deliver these kind of ships in a timely manner

 

[MarkOttawa]

Meanwhile a private Canadian shipping company can get an icebreaker from Japan in about a year...
http://www.cdfai.org/the3dsblog/?p=1599
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90990/post-1262825.html#msg1262825

A private Canadian company can get an icebreaker in one year.  In 2008 PM Harper announced the CCG would have the CCGS Diefenbaker in  service in 2017:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/new-arctic-icebreaker-to-be-named-after-diefenbaker-1.772716

That's nine years.  And now the ship is--supposedly--to enter service in 2022:
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/10/20131011-154316.html

That is 14 flipping years.  To get one ship.  Not naval spec.  About the length of time Canada was in the two World Wars plus Korea.  Does that make any rational sense?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

By the way the JSS project was announced by the Liberal gov't in 2004:

In 2004, the Government of Canada announced that it would replace the Royal Canadian Navy’s
Protecteur-class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment (AOR) ships. Three Joint Support Ships (JSS) were proposed,
with a contract to be awarded in 2008, the first ship delivered in 2012, and the project completed in
2016. The Government allocated $2.1 billion todesign, develop, and acquire the three ships...
http://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/files/files/JSS_EN.pdf

And now the first JSS (and only two is a dead cert) is supposed to be operational in, er, 2019 (a German, sort of off-the-shelf, Berlin class):
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/10/20131011-154316.html

That is 15 years from official announcement.  Some things are very wrong with the pols, with DND, and with the CF.  Sorry.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

Now i'm not an expert but it sounds like our industries just aren't built up to be able to deliver these kind of ships in a timely manner

I rather think that is the purpose of the exercise - to create an industry that can meet those needs in a timely fashion.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Timely?  See:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90990/post-1262868.html#msg1262868
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90990/post-1262881.html#msg1262881

Timely was, has been, and is irrelevant.  All politics, politics, politics--and jobs, jobs, jobs.  And absolutely no reality.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

Timely?  See:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90990/post-1262868.html#msg1262868
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/90990/post-1262881.html#msg1262881

Timely was, has been, and is irrelevant.  All politics, politics, politics--and jobs, jobs, jobs.  And absolutely no reality.

Mark
Ottawa

For a change Mark.... No argument from this quarter. 

But I live in hope.

 

[MilEME09]

Well we can get ready for news stories coming from every where on this issue, with the Auditor General expected to release a report on the NSBS. heres a little bit from an Ottawa citizen article

An auditor general’s report to be released this fall on the federal government’s vaunted national shipbuilding plan is expected to blow last year’s F-35 stealth fighter controversy out of the water.

The Conservative government has held up the $35-billion plan as a glowing success story that will re-energize Canada’s Navy and Coast Guard, while simultaneously creating thousands of jobs on both coasts and transforming Canada into a world-class shipbuilding nation.

Auditor General Michael Ferguson’s report will put that narrative to the test. It will raise concerns about the way the overall budget was set, and argue the money is not nearly enough to do what the government has promised.

That will again put the Conservative government’s reputation for being strong fiscal managers and champions of Canada’s military under the gun — though this time with thousands of jobs in Vancouver and Halifax on the line.

Here are some other issues that will emerge on defence and foreign affairs when Parliament resumes on Oct. 16:

Full article

As National Defence looks to cut costs, it faces tough decisions on the future of the Canadian Forces
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/National+Defence+looks+costs+faces+tough+decisions+future+Canadian/9012387/story.html

 

[MarkOttawa]

From Kirkhill:

For a change Mark.... No argument from this quarter. 

But I live in hope.

I have abandoned mine--but good to agree this time .

Mark
Ottawa

 

[NavyShooter]

I'm in the Navy.

I've pretty much given up hope of actually seeing new ships anytime this decade.

Looking at how busy ISI is with the FELEX upgrade, and seeing how (in my opinion) they seem to be over their heads on it...well...I'm in no rush to see whatever unmitigated disaster it will be that they pull out of their hat when they actually build a major surface combatant vessel from the keel up.

JUST MY OPINION.

I don't think I'll sail on one in my career.

NS