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New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

  • Thread starter Thread starter GAP
  • Start date Start date
That's my assumption since they're partnering with the Inuit. Purely assumption but I think a reasonable one haha
Yeah I thought that strange to be honest and more suitable to the 2 CCG AOPS. A PC6 ship doesnt sound like a ship designed to work in primarily Arctic waters too me although

Summer/autumn operation in medium first-year ice which may include old ice inclusions70 to 120 cm (2.3 to 3.9 ft)
is still impressive and if theres no ice then theres no worry

 
Idk, trade programs and coops are super common in Manitoba high schools in French and English. I think you may be expanding a local problem to a national one in this case.
true, but then isn't that where are thoughts are centred. It was indeed an Ontario situation although they seem to be making a comeback even here; hope so anyways
 
Thought that was a different project, at least initially? IIRC the very earliest LCS (before it even got the name) concepts were more akin to an updated WWII destroyer or punchier OPV; good endurance, lots of guns, reasonable turn of speed, not particularly large; and the expected use seemed to boil down to gunboat work: giving pirates and other localized problems a kicking, and supporting forces ashore with the same goal, without having to send a Burke to muck around in coastal and river waters. Could be entirely wrong.

If you take a look at the specs of the JHSV and the LCS Freedom

The Independence class is a class of littoral combat ships built for the United States Navy.

The hull design evolved from a project at Austal to design a high speed, 40-knot-cruise ship. That hull design evolved into the high-speed trimaran ferry HSC Benchijigua Express and the Independence class was then proposed by General Dynamics and Austal as a contender for Navy plans to build a fleet of smaller, agile, multipurpose warships to operate nearshore in the littoral zone.
Planning for a class of smaller, agile, multipurpose warships to operate in the littoral zone began in the early 2000s. In July 2003, a proposal by General Dynamics (partnering with Austal USA, the American subsidiary of Australian shipbuilder Austal) was approved by the Navy, with a contract for two vessels.


On 15 April 2003, the Lockheed Martin LCS team unveiled their Sea Blade concept based on the hull form of the motor yacht Destriero

The construction contract was awarded to Lockheed Martin's LCS team (Lockheed Martin, Gibbs & Cox, Marinette Marine, Bollinger Shipyards) in May 2004 for two vessels. These would then be compared to two ships built by Austal USA to determine which design would be taken up by the Navy for a production run of up to fifty-five ships.
The way I always understood the development was that small, high-speed vessels had already demonstrated their viability commercially. The Marines were enamoured of what they saw with the WestPac Express and with the Aussie's successful use of a similar ferry in East Timor (HMAS Jervis Bay).

Even 20 years ago the Marines were looking for landing ships for smaller formed units.

To accompany the littoral ferries there was a need for a littoral escort. Austal proposed an armed version of their ferries. The USN took interest and assigned a budget. Lockheed decided to compete for the budget with a design that appealed to the blue water ASW crowd, promising a 40 knot frigate.

ASW in the littoral is a specialized occupation requiring different skills and kit than than blue water ops., as I understand it.

....

Modularity apparently doesn't work for the US Navy despite the concept being successfully applied by the Danes for almost 50 years now with the modules being employed on vessels from 320 tonne Flyvefisken patrol boats to 6600 tonne Absalons and Huitfelds. Not the first time that the US has been unable to exploit capabilities employed by others.

The Austal designs were all ferry designs, which like container ships, were designed to manage variable loads in various positions. Stanflex modules came out of Odense in Denmark which designed RoRo ships and Container ships for Maersk before being tasked with building the Absalon, essentially an armed RoRo ferry into which a number of Stanflex modules could be slotted. The Huitfelds, now the Type 31s of the RN, were the same RoRo ferry as the Absalon but with a defined load and more engine power. OMT, the design team, is still, I believe part of the Irving CSC team.

....

My conclusion, having watched the programme over the decades is that the USN doesn't want anything to do with any operations other than blue water operations. Green, brown, riverine, littoral, ... none of those are going to be willingly supported by the USN. Just like the USAF will not willingly support Tactical Air. Even the Joint (ie Army included) High Speed Vessels were transferred entirely to the Navy and then turned over to the civil mariners of the Military Sealift Command and re-designated as EPFs (Expeditionary Fast Transports).

Curiously the civilian manned ships only require 26 crew instead of the military crew of 46.

Although designed for a military crew of 46, the ships usually have a crew of 26.

The EPF program combines the Army's Theater Support Vessel (TSV) program, dating from 2004, with the Navy and Marine Corps High Speed Connector (HSC), requirement dating from 2004.


....

The EPF/JHSV/TSV/HSC programme was always concurrent with the LCS programme and the Aussies and their Cats were always the lead design.

....

Twenty years on and the USN and the USMC are still dickering over shallow draft landing ships.
 
Where the LCS jumped the shark was that they wanted a "Blue water capable" Littoral ship. So one that could tranist the Pacific and then fight in Littoral waters. Two very different needs. In my opinion they been better off building a smaller vessel and then shipping them across the ocean on a semi-submersible, which could also act as a Depot ship.
 
RCN ships often go with Warship 333 or whatever else the hull number is. I could easily see the Coast Guard using that.
However when announcing themselves over the net the OOW will do what we normally do. Write down on the bridge window with dry erase marker what you heard phonetically. And over the radio you'll say "Canadian Coast Guard Ship mangled name" or "Canadian Coast Guard ship at location" and carry on no problem.

Its not like I can understand Newfoundlander fishing boats over a scratchy VHF speaking english anyways, so how is this any different?
 
You are an anglo who understands French? Think about what you would get from this on VHF, spoken at high speed.

"Canal Quebec ... Natashquan. Ste-Petronille. St-Jean a 1 7 3 5.
Natashquan ... Canal Quebec, deux en montant, un en descendant."

I can almost guarantee that if you are not a St Lawrence pilot or a local mariner, you"ll have no more than an inkling as to what was just said. It'll be no different for anyone not attuned to the sound of Inuktitut.

P.s. If anyone asks, I'll "translate".
 
Someone in the US Navy is giving us a bit of love - nice to see, gotta wonder why our own media outlets are not able to do something similar.

From the Great White North to the South China Sea:​

10 Days on Patrol aboard Royal Canadian Navy frigate HMCS Montréal



 
I like how they have a red painted 60R on the flight deck….
It could actually be a Harbin Z-20…much better performance and capability than the non-communist UH-60. 👍🏼
 
The Zumwalts seemed to be sitting on the fence between being a pure R&D platform and an actual class.

Wasn't there a CNS who was rather keen on Littoral and the LCS?
Zumwalt suffers from many of the issues that LCS and the Ford class carriers did in this era, primarily the lack of risk aversion within the US Navy and the push to incorporate a lot of high performance, new technologies without as much testing as should have happened. It also doesn't help with Zumwalt especially that much of her design was focused around littoral combat against non-peer threats and how with the total pivot away from these conflicts, the ship was kind of left without a role. They have reported to be very capable vessels with regard to their hulls, seakeeping, speed, stealth, acoustic signatures and missile batteries however, there is some issues like lacking certain radars that puts them at a bit of a disadvantage now that things are back to peer to peer conflicts.
 
Zumwalt suffers from many of the issues that LCS and the Ford class carriers did in this era, primarily the lack of risk aversion within the US Navy and the push to incorporate a lot of high performance, new technologies without as much testing as should have happened. It also doesn't help with Zumwalt especially that much of her design was focused around littoral combat against non-peer threats and how with the total pivot away from these conflicts, the ship was kind of left without a role. They have reported to be very capable vessels with regard to their hulls, seakeeping, speed, stealth, acoustic signatures and missile batteries however, there is some issues like lacking certain radars that puts them at a bit of a disadvantage now that things are back to peer to peer conflicts.
I suspect they could be refitted and repurposed to make them more useful. Likely removing the failed gun components and replacing them with a proven system like the 127mm, will free up some weight for more sensors.
 
Zumwalt suffers from many of the issues that LCS and the Ford class carriers did in this era, primarily the lack of risk aversion within the US Navy and the push to incorporate a lot of high performance, new technologies without as much testing as should have happened. It also doesn't help with Zumwalt especially that much of her design was focused around littoral combat against non-peer threats and how with the total pivot away from these conflicts, the ship was kind of left without a role. They have reported to be very capable vessels with regard to their hulls, seakeeping, speed, stealth, acoustic signatures and missile batteries however, there is some issues like lacking certain radars that puts them at a bit of a disadvantage now that things are back to peer to peer conflicts.
Is there anything else in the USN inventory that fills that land attack role? Zumwalt was supposed to replace the Iowa-class in that role right?
 
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