New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Halifax Tar]

The Americans want something that works and does the job, absolutely. But the Americans also prefer money to flow to American companies - and it’s an American company that current has a product that works well & does the job well.

(Slight distraction but relevant…wasnt it a Canadian squadron that’s won some trophy the last few years in a row on some ASW exercise?)


Usually peer pressure is a shitty excuse to buy military kit. But in this case, I don’t know that it is…

Regardless of what wizardly we park into an Aurora, the airframes themselves are just old. We could pack them full of the most high tech kit on the planet, it doesn’t change the fact that the aircraft themselves are decades old.

We are getting the P8 as things currently stand, I believe. Minister Arcand even made some reference to it a few weeks back, with media outlets buzzing about 8-12 aircraft to be procured.

Boeing’s P-8A Poseidon to replace Royal Canadian Air Force fleet of CP-140 Aurora aircraft

In response to the Royal Canadian Air Force Request for Information on long-term maritime patrol aircraft Boeing has offered its best P- 8A

www.mrobusinesstoday.com

*I would love it if Canada had a solution so that funds could be spent in Canada. Most of us would, absolutely.

But Bombardier hasn’t taken the initiative to design, test, or market an ASW or CMMA aircraft to the point it could be marketed as a state of the art platform at a more reasonable cost…which is a shame since Bombardier just won ‘Top Business Jet’ manufacturer worldwide

The GlobalEye was a bizjet based aircraft that could have filled the role, but without much global interest currently in that niche, it hasn’t gone anywhere minus the few aircraft that were/are in service.

One of these was on station while we were working to recover what we could of Stalker and her crew and passengers.

Truly an impressive plane. I was blow away how low it would fly.

 

[Dana381]

Regardless of what wizardly we park into an Aurora, the airframes themselves are just old. We could pack them full of the most high tech kit on the planet, it doesn’t change the fact that the aircraft themselves are decades old.

I was at the 2017 (I think) Summerside air show and toured the CP-140. I asked the Pilot about the speed as I had once heard the CP-140 and/or P-3 held the record for the fastest turbo prop production aircraft. He had not heard this but said they limit air speed to around half to prevent airframe stress as they are so old.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

About the US, but may be instructive for us.

gCaptain OpEd: US Navy Shipbuilding Has A BIG Badger Problem

by Captain John Konrad (gCaptain) Shipbuilding and repair in America is in crisis. Every large ship built here costs multiples of what it would cost to build them in Asia and most government ships are well behind schedule and over budget. US Shipyards shoulder much of the blame and in recent...

gcaptain.com

 

[Navy_Pete]

Weirdly from talking to the consultants we still have more actual bureaucratic demands compared to NAVSEA projects, it's just that ours are spread between multiple agencies. THere is a small team working on both sides just on tracking the 'IRBs/ITBs' etc that are providing regular updates with a not-insignificant overhead that rolls down into every single contract.

And yet, ask how some system design meets code, or for some performance metrics to show the actual production performance is improving (broadly contruction hours per ton/liner foot/square footage etc) and you would be SOL. We focus on a lot of things that are by-products but require a lot of overhead but have problems with real concrete items.

 

[Spencer100]

The Americans want something that works and does the job, absolutely. But the Americans also prefer money to flow to American companies - and it’s an American company that current has a product that works well & does the job well.

(Slight distraction but relevant…wasnt it a Canadian squadron that’s won some trophy the last few years in a row on some ASW exercise?)


Usually peer pressure is a shitty excuse to buy military kit. But in this case, I don’t know that it is…

Regardless of what wizardly we park into an Aurora, the airframes themselves are just old. We could pack them full of the most high tech kit on the planet, it doesn’t change the fact that the aircraft themselves are decades old.

We are getting the P8 as things currently stand, I believe. Minister Arcand even made some reference to it a few weeks back, with media outlets buzzing about 8-12 aircraft to be procured.

Boeing’s P-8A Poseidon to replace Royal Canadian Air Force fleet of CP-140 Aurora aircraft

In response to the Royal Canadian Air Force Request for Information on long-term maritime patrol aircraft Boeing has offered its best P- 8A

www.mrobusinesstoday.com

*I would love it if Canada had a solution so that funds could be spent in Canada. Most of us would, absolutely.

But Bombardier hasn’t taken the initiative to design, test, or market an ASW or CMMA aircraft to the point it could be marketed as a state of the art platform at a more reasonable cost…which is a shame since Bombardier just won ‘Top Business Jet’ manufacturer worldwide

The GlobalEye was a bizjet based aircraft that could have filled the role, but without much global interest currently in that niche, it hasn’t gone anywhere minus the few aircraft that were/are in service.

That's the point now with Bombardier. Now that it is free of the governments rule about no defence products or no government funding. They are now looking to add that to business. Bombardier shrinking to just large biz jets free them of the prior commitment to defence work. The government made Bombardier commit to little defence work to receive funding for the commercial programs.

The reasons were one they did not want a case with defence work being used as an issue in trade tribunals like Airbus and the Europeans accuses Boeing of. Two they did not want a bad optics of a cancelled program with people being laid offed IE Arrow. Three they really did not want to support Bombardier "war" products around teh world. IE Bell Helicopter or GDLS-C. Four they would have to buy the stuff built for the CAF.

 

[don3wing]

That's the point now with Bombardier. Now that it is free of the governments rule about no defence products or no government funding. They are now looking to add that to business. Bombardier shrinking to just large biz jets free them of the prior commitment to defence work. The government made Bombardier commit to little defence work to receive funding for the commercial programs.

The reasons were one they did not want a case with defence work being used as an issue in trade tribunals like Airbus and the Europeans accuses Boeing of. Two they did not want a bad optics of a cancelled program with people being laid offed IE Arrow. Three they really did not want to support Bombardier "war" products around teh world. IE Bell Helicopter or GDLS-C. Four they would have to buy the stuff built for the CAF.

SAAB offers Bombardier jets with their various packages found here:
GlobalEye AEW&C | Saab

and Bombardier Defense is found at Witchita, Kansas

Solutions for the most demanding missions

Bombardier is recognized around the world for its diverse portfolio of proven and versatile specialized aircraft platforms.

defense.bombardier.com

 

[Maxman1]

P-8 is far and away a better choice for Aurora replacement, if for no other reason than it actually currently exists and is in active service.

 

[Dana381]

And it can drop torps!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's the point now with Bombardier. Now that it is free of the governments rule about no defence products or no government funding. They are now looking to add that to business. Bombardier shrinking to just large biz jets free them of the prior commitment to defence work. The government made Bombardier commit to little defence work to receive funding for the commercial programs.

The reasons were one they did not want a case with defence work being used as an issue in trade tribunals like Airbus and the Europeans accuses Boeing of. Two they did not want a bad optics of a cancelled program with people being laid offed IE Arrow. Three they really did not want to support Bombardier "war" products around teh world. IE Bell Helicopter or GDLS-C. Four they would have to buy the stuff built for the CAF.

How about building a robust medium sized highwing passenger/cargo aircraft that can expand the passenger carry capability of the far North.

 

[YZT580]

How about building a robust medium sized highwing passenger/cargo aircraft that can expand the passenger carry capability of the far North.

DeHavilland owns those rights. Take a Dash7 and upgrade the cockpit, convert to twin engine and install a cargo door which is already an option. Then install a bulkhead midcabin and you have an ideal combi to replace the HS748's and similar a/c that are reaching the ends of their lives. Use the 7 rather than a rebuild on the Dash8 because it was the last DH product built with STOL in mind. It is a far more robust airframe

 

[Maxman1]

And also see if DHC can make a pressurized, turboprop version of the Buffalo.

 

[Spencer100]

How about building a robust medium sized highwing passenger/cargo aircraft that can expand the passenger carry capability of the far North.

That's my point. They sold the rights to anything like that.

But now that Bombardier is selling a few Globals to the US and others for mission system they see future sales

 

[Halifax Tar]

Apparently there was some townhall recently with CRCN and a brave S1 flat out asked for someone else to build our ships...

Any insight ? Lol

 

[Spencer100]

Apparently there was some townhall recently with CRCN and a brave S1 flat out asked for someone else to build out ships...

Any insight ? Lol

Guys we are having an townhall
Or How to stop career progression in one easy step.

 

[Maxman1]

Supposedly the Type 83 AAW destroyer design details are supposed to be released soon. Anyone hear anything about it?

 

[Spencer100]

Supposedly the Type 83 AAW destroyer design details are supposed to be released soon. Anyone hear anything about it?

Will the RN even be able to afford it. It's going to take expensive to the next level.

Will it be a new design or a T26 growth design?

 

[Maxman1]

There most likely wouldn't be more than four or six Type 83s, given there are only six Type 45s in service.

 

[MilEME09]

Apparently there was some townhall recently with CRCN and a brave S1 flat out asked for someone else to build our ships...

Any insight ? Lol

The hero we needed

 

[Kirkhill]

That's my point. They sold the rights to anything like that.

But now that Bombardier is selling a few Globals to the US and others for mission system they see future sales

Did they sell "the rights to anything like that" or did they just sell the existing patterns and the rights to support them? What is to prevent Bombardier taking a pressurized fuselage, give it a ramp and sling it between 4 twin electric Quadcopter type rotors which can lift 10 tonnes?

 

[Spencer100]

Did they sell "the rights to anything like that" or did they just sell the existing patterns and the rights to support them? What is to prevent Bombardier taking a pressurized fuselage, give it a ramp and sling it between 4 twin electric Quadcopter type rotors which can lift 10 tonnes?

Bombardier is just a maker of very high end business jets. Everything else is gone.

Viking first got the Dash 1 though 7 DHC models. They then put the Twin Otter back into production (Dash 6) Then the purchased the Water Bomber Now the DHC 515. Then purchased the Dash 8 (Q400). They also picked up the Short 330 and Sherpa. Most of this business is the supply of MRO services and parts. They are looking to put the DHC 515 and the Dash 8 back into production if they can sell any. But don't hold your breath. They renamed the whole operation DeHaviland Canada. Backed by one of the Thompsons

They sold the CRJ line to Mitsubishi to get the supply chain, engineers, and service centers. This was help get the Spacejet off the ground. Just this year Mitsi canned the whole SpaceJet. They will operate the CRJ service business. No new jets are to be built.

They sold the Mexico, Northern Ireland and African aero production plants to Spirit Aero Systems. This included the Shorts Brother Plants.

Lear was closed

They sold the CS200 to Airbus and the Caisse Depot Quebec. Airbus renamed it the A200.

Last year they sold the last of the A200 production sites to Airbus.

In years past Bombardier sold the Pilot training to CAE and the CF18 MRO biz too.

The non aerospace stuff was sold years ago. Snow tracks to Camplast which end up at Lietner. Sea Doo and Ski Doos are now just a separate company called BRP. The train division was sold to Alstom.

Bombardier does not have the ability to engineer or build a different type of plane anymore. They will have problem even designing a whole new jet in the future.