New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Sub Standard]

I guess this is s dumb question. The new CSC will have the 2 x twim 13 inch torpedo launchers for the Mk54. Why is it that surface ships can not carry the much bigger Mk48? I get the Mk54 matches the helicopter dropped units.

I have not understood this. If the opposing sub has a MK48 or the like and the ship has one too, would then not even things up a bit?

With the size of the MK48 and the launch requirements you would need tubes mounted below the water line.

 

[Underway]

Just finished mine warfare CRR today. Our CO was on Vancouver off the coast of Libya when the HMS went hot on a mine. The ship stood off 6km from the mine and they brought in a UK team to destroy it. The mine exploded and the entire ship shook, from 6km away.

So yah, heavyweight torps do cool things like crack your ship in half, but also ensure that your shin and thigh bones are co-located. So survival stations might be a problem.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Just finished mine warfare CRR today. Our CO was on Vancouver off the coast of Libya when the HMS went hot on a mine. The ship stood off 6km from the mine and they brought in a UK team to destroy it. The mine exploded and the entire ship shook, from 6km away.

So yah, heavyweight torps do cool things like crack your ship in half, but also ensure that your shin and thigh bones are co-located. So survival stations might be a problem.

I see that you too have read Sharks and Little Fish…

 

[Underway]

I see that you too have read Sharks and Little Fish…

OMG that's an amazing pull of a reference. I have read it, but didn't realize I internalized that image until you just pointed it out. That book was so visceral at times I was actually sick to my stomach.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

OMG that's an amazing pull of a reference. I have read it, but didn't realize I internalized that image until you just pointed it out. That book was so visceral at times I was actually sick to my stomach.

Yeah, the sea gull scene was not good…

 

[Spencer100]

With the size of the MK48 and the launch requirements you would need tubes mounted below the water line.

Ok but that is not out the ability to do with engineering. I guess there is point in not doing it as I see no navy one does it today. I was wondering the reasons as just a torpedo to torpedo fight it would even the odds.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Ok but that is not out the ability to do with engineering. I guess there is point in not doing it as I see no navy one does it today. I was wondering the reasons as just a torpedo to torpedo fight it would even the odds.

No, an ASW helicopter (or two) evens the odds…

 

[FSTO]

No, an ASW helicopter (or two) evens the odds…

We don't have enough airborne ASW assets to even the odds. Where the hell is that decision on the MMA (aka "get the F******g P8 NOW!)

 

[Spencer100]

We don't have enough airborne ASW assets to even the odds. Where the hell is that decision on the MMA (aka "get the F******g P8 NOW!)

Airbus just announced the go ahead for the A320 or Dassault based MPA. So there will need to be a little more waiting.

ATL2 successor scoping work throws further doubt on French backing for MAWS programme

France has awarded contracts, each worth €10.9 million ($11.8 million), to Airbus Defence & Space and Dassault for early-stage development work on a new maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) based on their respective A320neo and Falcon 10X platforms.

www.flightglobal.com

A Boeing is a non starter

 

[FSTO]

A Boeing is a non starter

Why?
That is just bloody stupid if the GoC is still butt hurt about that little Bombardier/Boeing tussle.

 

[Furniture]

Why?
That is just bloody stupid if the GoC is still butt hurt about that little Bombardier/Boeing tussle.

Politics trumps common sense...

 

[FSTO]

Politics trumps common sense...

Doesn't it.

 

[Spencer100]

Why?
That is just bloody stupid if the GoC is still butt hurt about that little Bombardier/Boeing tussle.

It's not just GoC it's Quebec Inc. Bigger aerospace tragically than the Arrow. It will be decades.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Update on 2022 and 2023 from Seaspan A YEAR-IN-REVIEW: IT'S FULL SPEED AHEAD FOR ALL THREE SEASPAN SHIPYARDS IN 2023 - Seaspan

I was at VDC last night, man they are busy, overflowing parking lot with 5 vessels in at once including the Metakala barge that went aground late last year and needs major hull work. Plus a C-Class ferry, big US tug, and two CCG vessels.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618371936240766976

Plus they flipped a heavy block for the new science vessel

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613575966147710976

 

[KevinB]

Airbus just announced the go ahead for the A320 or Dassault based MPA. So there will need to be a little more waiting.

ATL2 successor scoping work throws further doubt on French backing for MAWS programme

France has awarded contracts, each worth €10.9 million ($11.8 million), to Airbus Defence & Space and Dassault for early-stage development work on a new maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) based on their respective A320neo and Falcon 10X platforms.

www.flightglobal.com

A Boeing is a non starter

You’re getting the P-8, it’s not up for debate.
That was a decision made for you down here.

 

[Kirkhill]

You’re getting the P-8, it’s not up for debate.
That was a decision made for you down here.

Oooh! I do so love an authoritarian Democrat! It gives me chills and all tingly up my leg.

FMG.

 

[MTShaw]

You’re getting the P-8, it’s not up for debate.
That was a decision made for you down here.

I’d be surprised if they purchased the P-8. Peer pressure is a shitty reason for buying military equipment. My read is that the Americans want something that works and does the job.

Also the P-8 will close before we buy it,

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca

And I don’t t think the P-8 will fill the role from the CMMA buy and sell.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2022/02/10/40e474721d25ec41e82e2941aa3754f5/canadian_multi-mission_aircraft_project_request_for_information_02.10.2022.pdf

 

[suffolkowner]

Arctic Passion News #24 (2023) | Aker Arctic

This issue is focused on tradional tasks and needs for icebreakers and icebreaking ships. Aker Arctic is well prepared to develop and optimize the design solutions. Content Page 3 From the Managing…

akerarctic.fi

A little more information on the multi purpose vessels for the CCG

Aker ARC 146
length 99.9
beam 20.3
draught 6.2
8500 tonnes
PC 4

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Arctic Passion News #24 (2023) | Aker Arctic

This issue is focused on tradional tasks and needs for icebreakers and icebreaking ships. Aker Arctic is well prepared to develop and optimize the design solutions. Content Page 3 From the Managing…

akerarctic.fi

A little more information on the multi purpose vessels for the CCG

Aker ARC 146
length 99.9
beam 20.3
draught 6.2
8500 tonnes
PC 4

Almost double the tonnage, thanks to an increase in length and beam, but same draught

Current 1100 class
25 crew
Gross tonnage 3809.1
83m L
16m B
6m D
Range 14,000nm
15kts max

Vessel - CCG Fleet

CCG Fleet

inter-j01.dfo-mpo.gc.ca

 

[CBH99]

I’d be surprised if they purchased the P-8. Peer pressure is a shitty reason for buying military equipment. My read is that the Americans want something that works and does the job.

Also the P-8 will close before we buy it,

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca

And I don’t t think the P-8 will fill the role from the CMMA buy and sell.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2022/02/10/40e474721d25ec41e82e2941aa3754f5/canadian_multi-mission_aircraft_project_request_for_information_02.10.2022.pdf

The Americans want something that works and does the job, absolutely. But the Americans also prefer money to flow to American companies - and it’s an American company that current has a product that works well & does the job well.

(Slight distraction but relevant…wasnt it a Canadian squadron that’s won some trophy the last few years in a row on some ASW exercise?)


Usually peer pressure is a shitty excuse to buy military kit. But in this case, I don’t know that it is…

Regardless of what wizardly we park into an Aurora, the airframes themselves are just old. We could pack them full of the most high tech kit on the planet, it doesn’t change the fact that the aircraft themselves are decades old.

We are getting the P8 as things currently stand, I believe. Minister Arcand even made some reference to it a few weeks back, with media outlets buzzing about 8-12 aircraft to be procured.

Boeing’s P-8A Poseidon to replace Royal Canadian Air Force fleet of CP-140 Aurora aircraft

In response to the Royal Canadian Air Force Request for Information on long-term maritime patrol aircraft Boeing has offered its best P- 8A

www.mrobusinesstoday.com

*I would love it if Canada had a solution so that funds could be spent in Canada. Most of us would, absolutely.

But Bombardier hasn’t taken the initiative to design, test, or market an ASW or CMMA aircraft to the point it could be marketed as a state of the art platform at a more reasonable cost…which is a shame since Bombardier just won ‘Top Business Jet’ manufacturer worldwide

The GlobalEye was a bizjet based aircraft that could have filled the role, but without much global interest currently in that niche, it hasn’t gone anywhere minus the few aircraft that were/are in service.