New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[MarkOttawa]

Looks like Ontario's Heddle Shipyards will get some work on Seaspan's polar icebreaker. Seaspan says they will design their own ship--will Davie's have the same design?

1) Heddle:

Thunder Bay shipyard could supply components for polar icebreaker construction job​

Heddle Shipyards' partnership with Vancouver's Seaspan may bring spinoffs to northwestern Ontario

A Thunder Bay shipyard has at least a foot in the door with an opportunity to take part in the multi-million-dollar construction of a new icebreaker for the Canadian Coast Guard.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada announced May 6 that Vancouver's Seaspan Shipyards will build one of two new polar icebreakers for the Canadian Coast Guard over the next ten years.

Heddle Shipyards, owners of a ship repair facility in Thunder Bay's north end, is part of a strategic partnership with Seaspan on this project.

In a statement, Heddle called the announcement a "welcome development" for the company, and Heddle president Shaun Padulo called it a "significant milestone" for Ontario's shipbuilding industry.

"Seaspan's truly pan-Canadian approach to shipbuilding will support thousands of jobs across the country and support the continued growth of Ontario's shipyards. At Heddle Shipyards, we are so proud to work alongside Seaspan Shipyards, Genoa Design, and hundreds of other Canadian suppliers to deliver the urgently needed Polar Icebreaker to the Canadian Coast Guard."

Heddle is the largest Canadian ship repair and construction company on the Great Lakes running facilities in Thunder Bay, Hamilton, Port Weller, in Newfoundland-Labrador and Nova Scotia.

How much work heads to Thunder Bay remains to be seen...

Thunder Bay shipyard could supply components for polar icebreaker construction job

Heddle Shipyards' partnership with Vancouver's Seaspan may bring spinoffs to northwestern Ontario

www.northernontariobusiness.com

2) Design--from Seaspan:

...
North Vancouver, BC – As part of the National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS), the Government of Canada has announced that Seaspan Shipyards (Seaspan) will design and build a Polar Icebreaker, the flagship of the Canadian Coast Guard’s icebreaking fleet...

Seaspan Shipyards to build Polar Icebreaker for Canadian Coast Guard - Seaspan

New ship construction program will sustain more than 2,800 jobs across Canada North Vancouver, BC – As part of the National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS), the Government of Canada has announced that Seaspan Shipyards (Seaspan) will design and build a Polar Icebreaker, the flagship of the Canadian...

www.seaspan.com

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Dale Denton]

Won't happen, but buying a couple LSDs would be a cheap way to build an expeditionary or amphibious capability, or even convert to a permanent hospital ship. Could throw a little scratch at Davie for a conversion/refit. Run them for 10/15 years until a new Big Honkin Ship is built.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Won't happen, but buying a couple LSDs would be a cheap way to build an expeditionary or amphibious capability, or even convert to a permanent hospital ship. Could throw a little scratch at Davie for a conversion/refit. Run them for 10/15 years until a new Big Honkin Ship is built.


View attachment 65235

Sure, if we crew it with civilians. We are already short of sailors, doing something like that would break us even more.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Sure, if we crew it with civilians. We are already short of sailors, doing something like that would break us even more.

I am not so sure the Henry J Kaisers are in great shape. Canada had to cover the Mid-Pac oiler duties in 2014 out of Hawaii with PRO because, even then, the USN dod not have a serviceable tanker on the west coast.

 

[Underway]

Sure, if we crew it with civilians. We are already short of sailors, doing something like that would break us even more.

That's the rub isn't it. We have a bunch of great ideas for a fleet mix but it doesn't matter if there are no sailors to sail them. I would love to have 6 subs. I don' think we could crew them. I'm not sure how other navies are dealing with the situation. How does Australia manage all their ships with a smaller population? Maybe its easier when the majority of your population is based on ocean fronting realestate.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well with 6 more modern subs we would likely have 3 ready to go at any one time, so it might not change crewing that much in that area. When the Mistrals were a strong possibility, we had just had 1-2 ships unable to operate any longer and the base crewing of the Mistrals was the same as the Tribals, so they would have not added to much of a burden, plus life aboard a vessel that big might be more comfortable. The civy side (and CCG) is also suffering from lack of crews, as people don`t want to be sailors anymore. However Covid likely has changed things with less demand for domestic shipping and less jobs on civy street, leaving the navy right now might not be a good idea. I can see swapping out crews more often as the way forward, that brings up the challenge of having enough experienced Department heads to have more than one crew per ship (about 2.5 crew per ship). But it would mean that sailors can do more long term life planning, which might help retention.

 

[quadrapiper]

I am not so sure the Henry J Kaisers are in great shape. Canada had to cover the Mid-Pac oiler duties in 2014 out of Hawaii with PRO because, even then, the USN dod not have a serviceable tanker on the west coast.

Given the size of their fleet and budget, that makes Canada look amazingly squared away in some ways. No LCSs or Zumwalts, either.

 

[JLB50]

Since the topic of recruitment has basically come up in this thread, correct me if I’m wrong but I believe I read somewhere that in the early 1960s Canada had more than 125,000 in the armed forces. That was back when our population was a lot smaller and before women were really welcome to serve. If so, why is Canada having such problems with recruitment? Yes, I understand that ships, planes, vehicles, weapons systems, logistics, etc. are much more technical nowadays and require a decent education to master them. But the same is true of many other things in the civilian world. Maybe it’s a complicated answer but is a career or even a brief stint in the CAF something that most Canadians would never even begin to consider?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The government sets the number of people the military is allowed to have, people are expensive, as you have to also think about medical costs, pension costs, training, housing, food.

 

[STONEY]

A little bit of infomercial on the Offshore Science Vessel

The video doesn't give a very good idea of the size of the ship. Is it 2000 or 10,000 tons is it 150 or 350 ft. A bit more info would be helpfull.

The government sets the number of people the military is allowed to have, people are expensive, as you have to also think about medical costs, pension costs, training, housing, food.

Looks like Ontario's Heddle Shipyards will get some work on Seaspan's polar icebreaker. Seaspan says they will design their own ship--will Davie's have the same design?

1) Heddle:




2) Design--from Seaspan:



Mark
Ottawa

The ofsv Jacques Cartier delivered to Coast Guard by Seaspan 18 months ago is still not operational having experienced many equipment breakdowns and unable to complete its trials. So not everything goes smoothly.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The video doesn't give a very good idea of the size of the ship. Is it 2000 or 10,000 tons is it 150 or 350 ft. A bit more info would be helpfull.



The ofsv Jacques Cartier delivered to Coast Guard by Seaspan 18 months ago is still not operational having experienced many equipment breakdowns and unable to complete its trials. So not everything goes smoothly.

I was reading that, seems a lot of the issues are with the Trawl winches which is likley a supplier problem. Plus the need to "calibrate" the fishing gear with an existing set on a ship that is currently in refit, plus throw in Covid. My guess is DFO does not want to adapt it's methods of calibration. Seems the ship is quite capable of sailing.

 

[medic5]

Since the topic of recruitment has basically come up in this thread, correct me if I’m wrong but I believe I read somewhere that in the early 1960s Canada had more than 125,000 in the armed forces. That was back when our population was a lot smaller and before women were really welcome to serve. If so, why is Canada having such problems with recruitment? Yes, I understand that ships, planes, vehicles, weapons systems, logistics, etc. are much more technical nowadays and require a decent education to master them. But the same is true of many other things in the civilian world. Maybe it’s a complicated answer but is a career or even a brief stint in the CAF something that most Canadians would never even begin to consider?

I don't have any concrete data, but from my conversation with friends and classmates the CAF never even crosses their mind, not even going into the reserves. Most just don't care, some people think it pays too little, others don't even know Canada has a military. Keep in mind I live in Toronto, so things are probably different in rural areas.

I personally feel that having recruiters in schools would be the best solution, having them at university or job fairs tells people that the CAF is an actual option. Not quite sure how politically viable that is today, though. I already hear the cries of "militarization of our schools".

 

[YZT580]

I don't have any concrete data, but from my conversation with friends and classmates the CAF never even crosses their mind, not even going into the reserves. Most just don't care, some people think it pays too little, others don't even know Canada has a military. Keep in mind I live in Toronto, so things are probably different in rural areas.

I personally feel that having recruiters in schools would be the best solution, having them at university or job fairs tells people that the CAF is an actual option. Not quite sure how politically viable that is today, though. I already hear the cries of "militarization of our schools".

In the 60's many high schools provided a home for the local cadet group. The schools I attended had teachers who were vets. The guidance office had materiel available on the rack in as prominent position as those from McGill or U of T. None of those options are available now and the guidance folks are often anti-military. Having a mobile team visiting schools or, if they won't give permission, a nearby street corner and introducing the CAF as a viable career alternative is probably the only way these days.

 

[medic5]

Interestingly, I learned about the CAF through a friend who's brother is in the reserves, who in turn learned about it through a school recruiter. I think sending a few guys in uniform to schools would do wonders for recruitment, especially if they can start applications right then and there.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In the 60's many high schools provided a home for the local cadet group. The schools I attended had teachers who were vets. The guidance office had materiel available on the rack in as prominent position as those from McGill or U of T. None of those options are available now and the guidance folks are often anti-military. Having a mobile team visiting schools or, if they won't give permission, a nearby street corner and introducing the CAF as a viable career alternative is probably the only way these days.

You should have seen the looks on teachers faces when i said our plan was to get my daughter into RMC, do her CF service, get out with a whack of money and useful experience. Sadly diabetes put paid to that plan. Now it's home schooling, TRU and federal job with good healthcare.

 

[CBH99]

when I was working as a unit recruiter, I actually did quite a few presentations in high schools and colleges. The reception was always great, and we got some really good folks out of those.

That was back in the day when Afghanistan was in full effect, and our time from “application to offer” was about a month. (Somehow we’ve gone backwards on processing times )

 

[medic5]

Any idea why they suddenly stopped? I've never heard of anything related in the last few years in any of the schools in my area.

 

[CBH99]

No idea. Once my stint as a recruiter was finished, I left the CAF for a position in provincial law enforcement. (Ironically enough while I was attending a career fair as a recruiter, I ended up being recruited.)

I think by doing some presentations at schools about what the CAF does, possible careers, and how it can be a stepping stone for careers in all kinds of things, it would really boost the CAF image & interest.

Would help with recruiting numbers, community connection, and over time could help boost our image - and now is a good time for us to think about doing that kind of stuff again.

0.02

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Interestingly, I learned about the CAF through a friend who's brother is in the reserves, who in turn learned about it through a school recruiter. I think sending a few guys in uniform to schools would do wonders for recruitment, especially if they can start applications right then and there.

The CAF is out of sight of most Canadians and the demographics of the CAF aren't representative of the Country. For instance, a disproportionate percentage of the Armed Forces is from Atlantic Canada, despite Atlantic Canada making up less than 2% of the National population. There is no actual stats on this but from my experience, Military Service in Canada is overwhelmingly an affair conducted by a small pool of people that come from areas of the Country with cultural, familial and heritage connections to Military Service. It's a case of, their fathers and grandfathers did it and now they are doing it.

My family definitely fits in to this category. Both my grandfathers served in the Military and their brothers and fathers before them all served in the wars. My grandfather was a Naval Officer, his brother served on Corvettes in WWII and , my other great uncle was an Infanteer in WWII and participated in the entire European campaign, my other great Uncle was a member of the Canadian Guards and ended his career as a Sergeant Major. Both my Great grandfathers served in WWI. All of them eventually left the Military and went on to other careers but their 20s were spent doing their time in the Armed Forces.

My brother is now in the Armed Forces along with myself. I was an Infantry Officer and am now a Naval Officer. Military Service is just something my family does. We don't spend our entire lives doing it but we do our time and believe in the service and are patriotic.

The Royal Canadian Navy is even more skewed because it's overwhelmingly filled with Old-Canada Anglo-Saxons from smaller Maritime Regions. The Navy also suffers from poor capture of areas with a Maritime tradition as it hasn't set itself up to take advantage of these groups of people.

Take for example the spread of Naval Reserve Divisions in this Country: There are more Naval Reserve Divisions in the Prairies than there are in Atlantic Canada. I grew up on the water, I have family that are heavily involved in Commercial Fisheries with actual experience working on the water. A few of my cousins own their own Commercial Vessels and make great money in that industry.

They would all make great Naval Reservists if they actually had access to an NRD but the nearest one if 400 miles away. You could probably even have them available for deployments when they aren't in season. It would be a better alternarive than collecting EI. New Brunswick only has one NRD and it's in Saint John, NB. The 250,000 Acadians that literally all live on the Coast and mostly make their money in the commercial fishing industry don't even have access to a French NRD they can call their own.

The Navy's real problem is Canada isn't really a maritime nation. It's a country that is surrounded by water on three sides but the Ocean is far from most peoples minds. Especially in Central Canada, where most of the population hasn't even seen the Ocean before.

 

[FSTO]

The CAF is out of sight of most Canadians and the demographics of the CAF aren't representative of the Country. For instance, a disproportionate percentage of the Armed Forces is from Atlantic Canada, despite Atlantic Canada making up less than 2% of the National population. There is no actual stats on this but from my experience, Military Service in Canada is overwhelmingly an affair conducted by a small pool of people that come from areas of the Country with cultural, familial and heritage connections to Military Service. It's a case of, their fathers and grandfathers did it and now they are doing it.

My family definitely fits in to this category. Both my grandfathers served in the Military and their brothers and fathers before them all served in the wars. My grandfather was a Naval Officer, his brother served on Corvettes in WWII and , my other great uncle was an Infanteer in WWII and participated in the entire European campaign, my other great Uncle was a member of the Canadian Guards and ended his career as a Sergeant Major. Both my Great grandfathers served in WWI. All of them eventually left the Military and went on to other careers but their 20s were spent doing their time in the Armed Forces.

My brother is now in the Armed Forces along with myself. I was an Infantry Officer and am now a Naval Officer. Military Service is just something my family does. We don't spend our entire lives doing it but we do our time and believe in the service and are patriotic.

The Royal Canadian Navy is even more skewed because it's overwhelmingly filled with Old-Canada Anglo-Saxons from smaller Maritime Regions. The Navy also suffers from poor capture of areas with a Maritime tradition as it hasn't set itself up to take advantage of these groups of people.

Take for example the spread of Naval Reserve Divisions in this Country: There are more Naval Reserve Divisions in the Prairies than there are in Atlantic Canada. I grew up on the water, I have family that are heavily involved in Commercial Fisheries with actual experience working on the water. A few of my cousins own their own Commercial Vessels and make great money in that industry.

They would all make great Naval Reservists if they actually had access to an NRD but the nearest one if 400 miles away. You could probably even have them available for deployments when they aren't in season. It would be a better alternarive than collecting EI. New Brunswick only has one NRD and it's in Saint John, NB. The 250,000 Acadians that literally all live on the Coast and mostly make their money in the commercial fishing industry don't even have access to a French NRD they can call their own.

The Navy's real problem is Canada isn't really a maritime nation. It's a country that is surrounded by water on three sides but the Ocean is far from most peoples minds. Especially in Central Canada, where most of the population hasn't even seen the Ocean before.

My dad was an Air Cadet during the war, but sadly he passed away when I was really young. I had an uncle who served in the RCAF during WWII and his son had 35 year career as well. I grew up reading Naval history books and loved the look of a naval uniform so that was my reason for joining. LOL!

Agree with you on the lack of knowledge of Canadians about our maritime needs. I can't recall how many times I heard from people "We have a Navy?!?"

I don't see that improving at all any time soon.