NDHQ Dress Code

[Jarnhamar]

So I go to NDHQ for an appointment the other day when two clerks react in abject horror. I spin around thinking a greater demon is behind me, but nothings there.
"Umm, we can't serve you, there is a dress code here"
I panic for a second thinking I wandered into a high class bar and look around (like the dreams you have as a kid going to school naked) but no, people wearing green cadpat uniforms and combat boots are all over.

In a polite tone (giving me an are you an idiot can't you read? look) it's pointed out to me that there are TWO giant signs describing the dress code.

No jeans!, tshirts, sports gear, sandles, running shoes etc...
I'm wearing brand new running/hiking shoes, khakie pants and a clean plain white t shirt.

The two clerks are discussing what to do, if they let me in they may get in shit, yet one feels sorry for me because I'm out of town.

They can probably tell by the steely look in my eyes that I'm not going going to leave quietly so after 10 minutes or so a concession is made. I'm allowed to proceed but I have to take my hat off....
I sit down for a few minutes and then taken and seen etc.. and leave.

What burned me was that 3  of the people working in the office were wearing jeans...

I was going to ask about that when I was leaving but figured it best just to get out of the building as fast as possible.

 

[Occam]

What burned me was that 3  of the people working in the office were wearing jeans...

I was going to ask about that when I was leaving but figured it best just to get out of the building as fast as possible.

Yep, they're undoubtably civilian employees.  It's perfectly acceptable for a civilian DND employee wearing jeans in the NDHQ Orderly Room or Clothing Stores to refuse you service because you're wearing jeans.

On Fridays, military personnel are allowed to wear civilian clothing IAW the dress code that you saw.  Unless it's during the GCWCC fund-raising period, though - in which case military personnel can pay a few bucks to be allowed the privilege of wearing jeans and be indistinguishable from the aforementioned jean-wearing civvies.  :

 

[Monsoon]

Reminds me of the time the Base DComd jacked me up in the wardroom cafeteria in Esquimalt for wearing "running shoes". After explaining that the "running shoes" ($120 suede sneakers definitely not made for running) were the only shoes I had brought on my three-day TD to the other side of the country, he relented and let me eat. But not before giving me a steely glare and saying:

          "You're lowering the standard of my mess."

Sure. But if I'd shown up in Bermuda shorts hiked up to my armpits with long black socks pulled up to my knees - hey, no problem! Looking like a tool is completely fine - recommended, really.

 

[Strike]

Sure. But if I'd shown up in Bermuda shorts hiked up to my armpits with long black socks pulled up to my knees - hey, no problem! Looking like a tool is completely fine - recommended, really.

Noe that I'd love to see.  Make sure to post pics when you carry this out!  ;D

 

[chris_log]

The CF is still firmly stuck in the 1950's when it comes to civilian dress codes. Officer's messes are the worst, you get stared at by the 'more senior' (in age, not necessarily rank) members if you show up for a beer wearing something less then a suit and tie. Forget jeans, sneakers, t-shirts and anything else comfortable (unless you decide on the afore-mentioned bermuda shorts hiked up to your nipples). And then mess committees wonder why people have to be dragged into the mess as opposed to coming voluntarily. 

 

[54/102 CEF]

The 1950s comment is contrary to what I see -

NDHQ DRESS CODE http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/so-op/soc-opc-03-eng.asp#soc-opc-3.02

see para 13-14 for Friday wear

The break through came from the troops vs the officers which was long over due

In short - the Grey Man who blends in and looks like he's about to caddy for the RSM or the Colonel - or explain the latest 4 wheel death dealing contraption for the Governor General will get the nod every time

Stay off the pin heads radar - dark golf shirt, beige slacks, brown shoes - now you have the initiative as they will call you SIR every time

 

[chris_log]

The 1950s comment is contrary to what I see -

NDHQ DRESS CODE http://www.cfsuo.forces.gc.ca/so-op/soc-opc-03-eng.asp#soc-opc-3.02

see para 13-14 for Friday wear

The break through came from the troops vs the officers which was long over due

In short - the Grey Man who blends in and looks like he's about to caddy for the RSM or the Colonel - or explain the latest 4 wheel death dealing contraption for the Governor General will get the nod every time

Stay off the pin heads radar - dark golf shirt, beige slacks, brown shoes - now you have the initiative as they will call you SIR every time

I'm confused. The links you provided state quite clearly that acceptable civilian dress includes slacks (what my grandpa wears), blazers, ties and suits. Unacceptable dress includes denim, t-shirts etc. What are you trying to say?

 

[54/102 CEF]

CF isn't stuck in the 1950s ref dress is all I'm saying - at the same time, if you need to go in and get service at the main location the person should be served.

 

[medicineman]

Funny thing about signs - I've found that about 95% of people don't truly read them, and the 5% that do are actually illiterate, as they do the opposite anyway.

However, it could be worse - Jimmy Cox could be hiding behind a small plant there and jump out from behind it and "dress" you down, to your socks  ;D,.

MM

 

[Haggis]

So I go to NDHQ for an appointment.

And why were you not in uniform?  You can never go wrong if you're in uniform!

 

[the 48th regulator]

And why were you not in uniform?  You can never go wrong if you're in uniform!

Sorry Flawed,

I have to agree with Haggis on this one.

I would understand if you were going down to the local armouries to pick up some paperwork, but you are going to a place that is affectionately coined the "Puzzle Palace".

I would have kicked you in the junk, for showing up that way, if I was one of those clerks; And I am not a big one for "dress codes".

You want to dress like a civilian employee, join the public service to do your duty to our nation.  We are even unionized, and have wicked health benefits, not to mention our neat dress codes.


dileas

tess

 

[chris_log]

I've been to NDHQ in civvies before. I'm going to assume that Flawed Design had a reason to be in civvies (i.e. on leave, after his duty hours etc). If I'm on leave or outside duty hours and I decide I need to go to the base for something (admin, stores, medical appointment, whatever) then I'm coming in in civvies (unless ordered to come in in uniform, i.e. a call-out).

I think it is unfair of him to put those clerks in a position where they are breaking the rules by not enforcing the dress code (he won't get jacked up, they will) but on the other hand, many CF units/bases have archaic civvie dress regs. There's nothing sloppy about a clean pair of jeans, t-shirt and clean sneakers (not PT shoes, there's a difference) if worn properly. I think its dumb to force people to dress in business casual when they are dropping in for an admin appointment, stores etc. Heck, JR messes allow jeans, t-shirts, sneakers etc. Try getting into the Borden officer's mess, for example, in jeans or a t-shirt (and depending on the duty officer, you'll catch heat for wearing sneakers although they usually leave you alone when you point out the mess dress rules).

 

[Loachman]

What is wrong with dressing decently?

And I do not care how clean or hole-free a T-shirt or pair of jeans is, neither are suitable dress for a major headquarters or an Officers' Mess.

 

[chris_log]

What is wrong with dressing decently?

And I do not care how clean or hole-free a T-shirt or pair of jeans is, neither are suitable dress for a major headquarters or an Officers' Mess.

If I can get into rediculously expensive restaurants and nightclubs wearing jeans and a t-shirt (not your old pair of wranglers and "Big Bob's Fish Hut" t-shirt mind you) then why does an officer's mess have to be so....severe. There's a reason young officers avoid the officer's mess, we don't like having to get dressed up to go have a casual beer or dinner (formal events aside). Now, I don't have a problem with putting on a dress shirt/polo to go into the 'drinking' side of the mess to spruce up a pair of jeans...but on the other hand putting on what is essentially business casual to go have breakfast/lunch/dinner is rediculous.

The JR's and Sgt's/WO's messes allow more casual wear but the officer's mess (and NDHQ...all other bases I have been on allow jeans, t-shirts etc when conducting buisiness in civvies) seems firmly stuck in the days of pipes, double-breasted suits and 'jolly goods'.

 

[Kat Stevens]

If I can get into rediculously expensive restaurants and nightclubs wearing jeans and a t-shirt (not your old pair of wranglers and "Big Bob's Fish Hut" t-shirt mind you) then why does an officer's mess have to be so....severe. There's a reason young officers avoid the officer's mess, we don't like having to get dressed up to go have a casual beer or dinner (formal events aside). Now, I don't have a problem with putting on a dress shirt/polo to go into the 'drinking' side of the mess to spruce up a pair of jeans...but on the other hand putting on what is essentially business casual to go have breakfast/lunch/dinner is rediculous.

The JR's and Sgt's/WO's messes allow more casual wear but the officer's mess (and NDHQ...all other bases I have been on allow jeans, t-shirts etc when conducting buisiness in civvies) seems firmly stuck in the days of pipes, double-breasted suits and 'jolly goods'.

I guess that's why you guys get the big bucks.

 

[chris_log]

I guess that's why you guys get the big bucks.

How does one requisition said big bucks? I sure didn't get any. 

(Minus the free education, etc)

 

[aesop081]

but on the other hand putting on what is essentially business casual to go have breakfast/lunch/dinner is rediculous.

Take it up with the Base / Wing Commander if it bothers you that much but in the end, orders are orders.

If you think some of our rules are antiquated or ridiculous....try going to an RAF mess.

 

[chris_log]

Take it up with the Base / Wing Commander if it bothers you that much but in the end, orders are orders.

It isn't my place, I'll save my boat rocking for something that really matters. The only times I visit the officer's mess these days I'm in dress of the day anyways.

If you think some of our rules are antiquated or ridiculous....try going to an RAF mess.

I've heard horror stories.

 

[frostvelun]

As a Junior Officer in an Infantry regiment, I rather prefer the strict dress code. Despite the fact that we don't allow jeans, khakis or whatever else, we still have no issues with Junior or Senior Officers coming up for drinks or socializing.

This may be our specific unit or because we are Reservists however.

Also, I'm not sure how many upper-end restaurants look fondly on people coming in with jeans (at least here in Montreal, from my experiences). Sure, you may be allowed in but only grudgingly. The Officer's Mess just takes it another step further and says "Nope".

 

[the 48th regulator]

Most Bars in Canada, and many places around the world, have dress codes.

No Hats, no Jeans, no Running shoes etc....


For Phuck sakes, if you expected otherwise from the actual National Headquarters for our Military, as I said before, you deserve a kick in the junk.

Jeebus, is it that hard to figure out?  We don't all live in freaking sheds in the backwoods....

Flawed Design's adventure at NDHQ

dileas

tess