More "Army" in Army Cadets (combat training, etc.)

[alan_li_13]

Thanks for the help, I‘ll talk to my CO tomorrow and see what he thinks.

 

[chalk1]

Well, this brings another interesting point: support from the affiliated unit. Im assuming that in this theoretical scenario, corps would still be attached to a unit. Would regiments willingly give their up their own resources for cadet purposes?

 

[48Highlander]

It‘s not theoretical at all. My unit has a cadet corps attached to it, and "rifle_team_captains‘s" core is attached to another unit. Generaly the corps have their own funding and can afford to cover the costs of their training. The units in turn can provide qualified members to conduct the training, and the facilits and equipment which are required. We do on occasion provide members to conduct cadet ranges, and summer training. However the salary for those members is generaly paid out of the cadet budget, so it costs the units very little.

 

[elscotto937]

48Highlander, that is the negative point of having a Reserve unit as your Affiliated unit, ...the cost.

I thought I would pipe in on this topic because it has generally been beat to death, and I‘m all for assisting in beating a topic to death.
People have talked about first establishing discipline before they could expand the "military training." Well, cadet discipline is based on a reward system rather than a punishment system. And good leadership is the key, without it the system will not function.

Military training can be done and it can be done within the confines of the current rules. Any attempt to create "combat" training(war fighting) would devolve into Cadets play time. To those who think that paintball and the like, are Combat training, they are not. I realize that cadets enjoy the military aspects of the program and want it to be more realistic. However, practicing "soldier skills" is more realistic than playing soldier. Patrolling, navigation, tent routine, physical fitness, the estimate process, etc...These can be done, it takes some creativity, and some initiative, and I don‘t just mean on the officer side of cadets...

 

[Jarnhamar]

I always thought the cadets do quite a bit of army training. I‘ve always said cadets do much more survival and fieldcraft training than the reserves and from what i‘ve seen of the regs and the reserves could stand to do more of it.

A week-end of digging a platoon size defensive might even be interesting to some but i have a feeling not many would appriciate the finer points of it heh.

 

[elscotto937]

Ghost you definately highlighted the diferences between playing soldier and being one....A month of platoon attacks might also be nice...

 

[cdhoult]

I recall talking to a CI not too long ago, and when he was a cadet, he was an an exchange I think to Germany (maybe the UK, I don‘t know).

He said they were out in the field with paintball guns for a few days, and he can remember being cold, wet, tired, and scared crapless because he didn‘t know where the enemy was...all he remembers thinking is, "This sucks, I want to go home"...He said it was a huge reality check for all the cadets who want to ‘play soldier‘.

CH

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks Scott.
Some people might be interested in it, obviously many others won‘t. I think cadets would be more interested in the high speed aspect of the army and not the mundane side of the house. I don‘t fault them for it either. Recruits are the same way in the army. One needs only look to the few posts on this board.
"Im on # whatever week of my BMQ, this is boring, does it get any funner? Im not challanged".
The navy and air cadets have flying and sailing as focal points for their training with the army its more difficult.

I do think cadets should be given more access to shooting guns, be it C7s, maybe a C9 on the range or especially the SAT system. I mean lets face it. Kids see guns every day on TV. They play airsoft and paintball. They shoot pellet guns. Video games with graphic violence. It‘s better to introduce kids/young adults to firearms and firearm safty than it is to treat guns like some evil killing toy. It‘s like sex. Its there. You see it every day you can‘t hide people fromit and think they will remain oblivious. Give them proper training with weapons on a range, use circular targets instead of figure 11‘s.

 

[tabernac]

He said they were out in the field with paintball guns for a few days, and he can remember being cold, wet, tired, and scared crapless because he didn‘t know where the enemy was...all he remembers thinking is, "This sucks, I want to go home"...He said it was a huge reality check for all the cadets who want to ‘play soldier‘.

If every cadet had this experience they would not want to do it again. Image all the money you would save by not buying range time, additional C7s, and moded C7s.

Just kidding. But it might work.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pretty dumb statement dude. Cadets get money from a different place than reserves and regular force.
Just as many recruits get a culture shock when they play soldier and want to go home.

 

[flip_masta]

i think its time cadets went back to its original status like it was over 40 years ago...where cadets get to fire high powered weapons :fifty: and actually have fun.....and for those of you that are against it then too bad for you...if you dont like it then leave..dont take the fun out of cadets just because of sum stupid law that no one listens to. if they want to be trained as soldiers then let them. at least this way... the young teens of Canada can do something with there lives then just sit back and go lazy. I say bring in the weapons and let it work its magic :threat:

 

[alan_li_13]

You know what i wouldn‘t mind? If they took away the "Don‘t beat cadets" rule. I think a pace stick to the head would some good to some cadets. But it would need to be justified and used in moderation of course.

I‘ve been hit (stabbed actually) with a pacestick by my RSM (Zaap!, lol) its not that bad. It teaches respect and to "Respect my authority!"

 

[Cpl. Williamson]

Originally posted by flip_masta:
[qb] i think its time cadets went back to its original status like it was over 40 years ago...where cadets get to fire high powered weapons :fifty: and actually have fun.....and for those of you that are against it then too bad for you...if you dont like it then leave..dont take the fun out of cadets just because of sum stupid law that no one listens to. if they want to be trained as soldiers then let them. at least this way... the young teens of Canada can do something with there lives then just sit back and
go lazy. I say bring in the weapons and let it work its magic :threat: [/qb]

Who agrees the Geneva Convention is "sum stupid law"?

 

[alan_li_13]

OH! Burn!!!lol
Speaking of the Geneva Convention, i read in a book that 50 cal weapons are not allowed to be used on personnel? I‘ve read the whole thing and i still havnt came across it. If it is true, someone tell me which article it is.

 

[leopard11]

50 calibre weapons are only to be used against armour and soft skin vehicles

 

[chalk1]

Originally posted by flip_masta:
[qb] i think its time cadets went back to its original status like it was over 40 years ago...where cadets get to fire high powered weapons :fifty: and actually have fun.....and for those of you that are against it then too bad for you...if you dont like it then leave..dont take the fun out of cadets just because of sum stupid law that no one listens to. if they want to be trained as soldiers then let them. at least this way... the young teens of Canada can do something with there lives then just sit back and go lazy. I say bring in the weapons and let it work its magic :threat: [/qb]

I agree with the Sapper.
Also, don‘t fill out your profile as having 4 years of military experience when you‘re only in cadets. I can‘t believe that someone with such small opinions would be allowed the responsibility of a troop.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We‘ve covered this. Do a search.
The idea of .50 not being used on pers is false.

RTC13,
Just cause you read it, doesn‘t make it true.

m_a_r_c
Quite talking about something you know nothing about.

 

[cdhoult]

Originally posted by flip_masta:
[qb] i think its time cadets went back to its original status like it was over 40 years ago...where cadets get to fire high powered weapons :fifty: and actually have fun.....and for those of you that are against it then too bad for you...if you dont like it then leave..dont take the fun out of cadets just because of sum stupid law that no one listens to. if they want to be trained as soldiers then let them. at least this way... the young teens of Canada can do something with there lives then just sit back and go lazy. I say bring in the weapons and let it work its magic :threat: [/qb]

.....wow......

You get trained on marksmanship, maybe not on a .50, but you still get to shoot, and for the most part, that treats respect for the fire arm...at least with cadets I‘ve dealt with.

If YOU don‘t like the current system, leave when you turn 16, and join the reserves. Go out, and be trained to be a soldier. It isn‘t the purpose of cadets, and as outlined in this thread, several times I may add, there are reasons for it not being the purpose.

Personally, I find cadets quite fun...it‘s why I‘m part of the organization. I‘ve learned tonnes. I‘m not a lazy person, I tend to be dedicated to what I do, I‘ve learned the value of loyalty and hard work....I didn‘t need to fire a .50 to learn that, funny enough.

Part of cadets in today‘s world is also to develop better citizens. I love working with people who are cadets at school, because we tend to be fairly efficient and have good work ethic.

This leads into why beating cadets = bad. First of all, beating people is wrong anyway....beating people with a weapon is even worse. It doesn‘t teach the cadets anything, because for the msot part, they won‘t encounter it in the real world....I‘m sure my dad doesn‘t beat his employees to keep them in line. By teaching cadets altrenate methods to conflict resolution/earning respect, it‘ll be far more applicable to them in the ‘real‘ world.

In addition, how would we train these cadets? I have a large amount of respect for a lot of cadets I meet, but I wouldn‘t trust most of them with the power to beat a cadet. Regardless of training, these are still cadets, and they‘re still youth. Instill some discipline, but beating them? It doesn‘t make sense, and it isn‘t part of any of the aims...it‘s not something that needs to be taught.

CH

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

flip_masta:

You are a ridiculous human being. "sum stupid law that no one listens to"? How dare you insult both Canadian and international law in such fashion and in the same breath call yourself a "WO". You are nothing but an ignorant child. Are you 40 or more years old? Of course not, you are still a cadet. I doubt very much that you have done any real research on the topic of Canadian Army Cadet training history. So with no personal knowledge, and no real research under your belt, how do you suppose that you know anything about the cadet program circa 1964? Lose the attitude until you‘re old enough to get a zit, at least.

I realize that this post was made in the cadet forum, but I will nonetheless make the following comment. All cadets, and other non members of the CF take note:

I think I speak for all members of the CF when I say this: we don‘t hate cadets, nor do we hate civilians, at all. We just hate the ignorant, cocky little ****s who keep jumping onto and ruining posts made on this board through their brazen ignorance/attitude. Such people do nothing but a disservice to all the legitimately interested civilians/non-obnoxious cadets who come to this forum to discuss and learn. To all such dumbasses, I say this: grow the **** up, because I for one am sick of kids like you.

 

[leopard11]

Originally posted by recceguy:


m_a_r_c
Quite talking about something you know nothing about. [/QB]

I guess they should really stop teaching us that on BMQ then, i remember quite clearly that discussion, and have talked to sum course mates about this and they remember the same thing i just said, at any rate, i will ask the course staff again, and hopefully get a copy of the lesson plan