Minister Anand announces investment of up to $3.7 billion to supply operational clothing and footwear to the Canadian Armed Forces

[Maxman1]

In fairness, the current NCDs(old?) are provided by Logistik Unicorp... I'm hoping to hold onto the NCDs for a few more years, as the new version does not appeal to me in the slightest.

Why? You mean you don't want to look like a Bond villain henchman?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

@MJP we play in the same world.

Should our depots be completely civilian?

Honest fault of mine is I have very little under the first line of supply in my career. So I have to wonder if our 3rd lines and beyond wouldn't be better served being full on civilian organizations.

Interested in your thoughts and opinions.

Not in the realm, however, I will offer a cautionary tale of over civilianizing 3rd line and beyond.

The SSC and SMC models of delivery for IT, Network, and Cyber Security has had a direct operational impact on the CAF. While it has provided the centralized, consolidated solution to most of our "issues" (funding constraints), it has severely limited our ability to approach issues with the flexibility and rapidity our commanders expect.

If you take the lessons learned from that endeavor and apply it to logistics, you will see a small need for a "QRF" ability for operational and priority logistics. Don't ever relinquish that ability, because as we have seen in the IT world, you can't take back what you give away.

 

[MJP]

@MJP we play in the same world.

Should our depots be completely civilian?

Honest fault of mine is I have very little under the first line of supply in my career. So I have to wonder if our 3rd lines and beyond wouldn't be better served being full on civilian organizations.

Interested in your thoughts and opinions.

No, I think it is every important to keep a decent ratio of military within the 3rd line including the ADM(Mat) world as it maintains ties to the CAF and injects a certain raison d'etre into organizations who through complacency may lose sight of the fact that they exist to support CAF operations

That isn't to say that the civilian staff at either depot (or the CFADs) do not work hard to support CAF operations either, as on a individual level or at as a group I have seen them come together and get things done for the folks doing the business. Leaving ADM(Mat) aside 3rd line is really the last bastion of CAF influence on the day to day Defence Supply Chain and keeping the CoC and some of the key folks in their military allows it to remain responsive to CAF demands and by proxy accountable. It it that flexibility aspect that @rmc_wannabe mentions in tier post that we IMHO need at our 3rd line orgs

Besides, if there are no Cpl/MCpls who is going to do Duty HPR MMT? Although is there really a need for a duty HPR MMT if there is no way to ship the item until the next business day?

 

[Halifax Tar]

No, I think it is every important to keep a decent ratio of military within the 3rd line including the ADM(Mat) world as it maintains ties to the CAF and injects a certain raison d'etre into organizations who through complacency may lose sight of the fact that they exist to support CAF operations

That isn't to say that the civilian staff at either depot (or the CFADs) do not work hard to support CAF operations either, as on a individual level or at as a group I have seen them come together and get things done for the folks doing the business. Leaving ADM(Mat) aside 3rd line is really the last bastion of CAF influence on the day to day Defence Supply Chain and keeping the CoC and some of the key folks in their military allows it to remain responsive to CAF demands and by proxy accountable. It it that flexibility aspect that @rmc_wannabe mentions in tier post that we IMHO need at our 3rd line orgs

Besides, if there are no Cpl/MCpls who is going to do Duty HPR MMT? Although is there really a need for a duty HPR MMT if there is no way to ship the item until the next business day?

Thanks MJP, much appreciated.

Your Duty Storesman question had be raised before. Some habits are hard to break.

 

[dimsum]

Why? You mean you don't want to look like a Bond villain henchman?

It's the current CADPAT, in black.

 

[MJP]

Thanks MJP, much appreciated.

Your Duty Storesman question had be raised before. Some habits are hard to break.

There is a time and place to break the glass and have 3rd line provide something after hours. Those situations likely fall into .5%ish of all after hours calls. Think SAR asset down and the unit has a person that will pick up the part and relay it to the unit.


Most of them end up being the CA thinking an exercise is important

Most other things can wait until the next business day and shipment by fedex

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is a time and place to break the glass and have 3rd line provide something after hours. Those situations likely fall into .5%ish of all after hours calls. Think SAR asset down and the unit has a person that will pick up the part and relay it to the unit.


Most of them end up being the CA thinking an exercise is important

Most other things can wait until the next business day and shipment by fedex

The Navy is the same way.

We will sail thousands of miles away from our material support and then wonder why it takes days or weeks to move materials through multiple countries customs and cross oceans.

And then on my last deployment add in a global pandemic that shut everything down on us.

Or the engineering officer being pissed because there is no update on their HPR 3 hours after they submitted it. Waking people up at o'dark early is an exercise in futility when nothing is flying out of Halifax 8 to 10 hours, if even that day at all.

The dark art of Logistics.

 

[dapaterson]

"Where is X?"

"We were never told there was a requirement for X."

"Everybody knows I need X!"

"For the past five days, at the Log Brief, when we asked about any outstanding requirements, or additional needs, when you never asked about this, and never approached anyone about it..."

Commander: "Why didn't you support them with X like they needed?"

 

[Halifax Tar]

"Where is X?"

"We were never told there was a requirement for X."

"Everybody knows I need X!"

"For the past five days, at the Log Brief, when we asked about any outstanding requirements, or additional needs, when you never asked about this, and never approached anyone about it..."

Commander: "Why didn't you support them with X like they needed?"

We need to go for beers.

 

[dapaterson]

We need to go for beers.

Two beers per soldier aged 18 and above for the endex smoker (Quebec). In the training area in Valcartier. Which has lots and lots of access roads.


Next morning: Sgt A, last night I signed for 216 beer and am responsible to return 216 empties.

Sgt A: Yes, sir, they're right here.

Me: Sgt A, in five minutes I will come back and collect 216 empties.

Sgt A (puzzled): Sir, they're right here!

Me: Sgt A, in five minutes I will come back and collect exactly 216 empties.

Sgt A (looks at large pile of cases, does a little math): Right sir, got it.


Five minutes later, the pile being remarkably smaller, I collected my 216 empties.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Two beers per soldier aged 18 and above for the endex smoker (Quebec). In the training area in Valcartier. Which has lots and lots of access roads.


Next morning: Sgt A, last night I signed for 216 beer and am responsible to return 216 empties.

Are you friggin' kidding me???

 

[dapaterson]

Late 90s. Paranoid assholes in positions of authority.

We won't talk FOA vs TD... or getting into policy arguments with superiors over a minor difference in an English vs French version that would give a handful of soldiers a bit of extra money.

That whole exercise was a reminder that "I love the fucking army, because the army loves fucking me."

 

[MJP]

It

"Where is X?"

"We were never told there was a requirement for X."

"Everybody knows I need X!"

"For the past five days, at the Log Brief, when we asked about any outstanding requirements, or additional needs, when you never asked about this, and never approached anyone about it..."

Commander: "Why didn't you support them with X like they needed?"

I see you have met 3VP.......

My fav urban legend is a phone call from their Ops O to the Bde staff asking what is required for as visit to the USA

Bde staff: just fill out the visit clearance request VCR and we will staff it.

ops O: ok but can that be done before the plane lands in an hour?


There is an element of truth in that legend

 

[dapaterson]

Prebief: Me, in the lead vehicle, senior person in the convoy, am told "Don't worry, the LO has coordinated the ground movement of your advance party, including all weapons and ammunition. The folks at the border know all about it."

Me, in the lead vehicle, senior person in the convoy "What do you mean, US Customs and Border Patrol that neither you nor any of your staff know anything about our cross border movement?"

 

[OldSolduer]

I bought mine because my Jimmy's died an honourable death the night before Remembrance Day 2021.

The approach of some within the RCCS towards that whole thing embarrasses most of us. I'm glad it was quashed quickly by the Corps CWO.

OK refresh my memory - what happened?

 

[PuckChaser]

OK refresh my memory - what happened?

Despite RCCS direction that new RCCS/CRTC collar dogs were an optional item until sufficient stock in supply system, unit RSM last year decides to order entire unit to buy them. RCCS CWO has to get involved before RSM backs down. Flash forward 18 months later, there is still no stock in the supply system to my knowledge.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Despite RCCS direction that new RCCS/CRTC collar dogs were an optional item until sufficient stock in supply system, unit RSM last year decides to order entire unit to buy them. RCCS CWO has to get involved before RSM backs down. Flash forward 18 months later, there is still no stock in the supply system to my knowledge.

100 percent accuracy.

 

[dapaterson]

Let's make changes, announce it, then inform the supply system who will tell us what best case timelines will be, which don't align with our plan, because we never considered acquisition and distribution as potential limiting factors because obviously this is more important than anything else the supply system could possibly be doing.

 

[PuckChaser]

There are 3300 RegF Sigs PYs. At $19.95 a pair someone could just cut a cheque for $70,000 and buy everyone a set. Instead, PSPC will require a SRCL and Disabilities Act statement, as well as argue we can't tell the bidders exactly what colour blue goes in the flags. It's not a broken supply system, its a broken procurement system that treats $70K of metals badges the same as buying 90 F35s.

 

[Furniture]

There are 3300 RegF Sigs PYs. At $19.95 a pair someone could just cut a cheque for $70,000 and buy everyone a set. Instead, PSPC will require a SRCL and Disabilities Act statement, as well as argue we can't tell the bidders exactly what colour blue goes in the flags. It's not a broken supply system, its a broken procurement system that treats $70K of metals badges the same as buying 90 F35s.

If someone was cynical, they would assume the entire system was designed so nobody could ever be held accountable for any decision.