Mental Health Issues From Freedom Convoy? -split from Freedom Convoy protests

[KevinB]

Maybe a thread split is on order.
This seems to have several divergent topics being discussed.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Right now they are entwined but let's keep this discussion on topic.

There are several MH threads on the forum.
Thanks,
Bruce

 

[Weinie]

MH can be directly linked to a physical injury - total agree.

As for PTSD diagnosis I leave that to mental health professionals. Someone can say that they suffer from PTSD but in reality it maybe something else. When I came back, I was warned by a good friend of mine, a nurse, not to disclosed what I experienced to my wife because she could suffer from a negative secondary effect because of me. The point that I was trying to make, but obviously failed, was that some people did not need to be directly exposed to a traumatic experience to suffer a mental health injury.

Cheers

You may feel I am callous about MH issues.. Nothing could be further from the truth. A very close friend served in Rwanda. He tried to commit suicide numerous times. He recounted the story to me when he had a 12 gauge stuck in his mouth, and the only thing that prevented him from pulling the trigger was that his arms were too short. On another occasion, he had attempted to hang himself in his shed, fortunately, his wife discovered him seconds after the attempt; she held him up while his then ten year old son cut the rope. When he did not show up to work, I wondered if he had finally succeeded.

I have several friends who served in the former Yugoslavia during the early nineties, they are now shadows of the people that I once knew, and I fear constantly for their well-being. I have had friends kill themselves as a result of service in Afghanistan. I miss them tremendously.

So perhaps you can understand my disdain for those who claim that "phanton honking" is something that I should care about, or that the news agency that crafted this "concern" is worth listening to. I have far more personal relationships, which in my estimation, are far more credible and critical, to concern myself with.

 

[Happy Guy]

You may feel I am callous about MH issues.. Nothing could be further from the truth. A very close friend served in Rwanda. He tried to commit suicide numerous times. He recounted the story to me when he had a 12 gauge stuck in his mouth, and the only thing that prevented him from pulling the trigger was that his arms were too short. On another occasion, he had attempted to hang himself in his shed, fortunately, his wife discovered him seconds after the attempt; she held him up while his then ten year old son cut the rope. When he did not show up to work, I wondered if he had finally succeeded.

I have several friends who served in the former Yugoslavia during the early nineties, they are now shadows of the people that I once knew, and I fear constantly for their well-being. I have had friends kill themselves as a result of service in Afghanistan. I miss them tremendously.

So perhaps you can understand my disdain for those who claim that "phanton honking" is something that I should care about, or that the news agency that crafted this "concern" is worth listening to. I have far more personal relationships, which in my estimation, are far more credible and critical, to concern myself with

I recently retired from the CAF with over 35 years. Unfortunately for me, I can relate to these stories.

We can agree that :

• only a mental health professional can accurately diagnosis what this phantom honking is and whether people are suffering from a mental injury. As a corollary, journalists should be more careful in writing such stores about "phantom honking" and possible link to mental health injury.
• that people will react differently under the same situations. What we may think is an innocuous situation may be harmful to others. For example someone who suffers from agoraphobia may avoid flying in an airplane or shopping in a mall because it may induce a panic attack.
• people's perceived mental injury is real to them.

Cheers

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Right now they are entwined but let's keep this discussion on topic.

There are several MH threads on the forum.
Thanks,
Bruce

I guess not....off my phone and onto the computer for a thread split.
Sigh.....Mike, where's my blackcurrant beer??

EDIT: Split this off to a new thread. Please remember the two separate topics please.
Bruce

Mike Bobbitt......I still want my horrible beer.

 

[Jarnhamar]

To be the devils advocate, does it make someone just a terrible human being for being a little judgemental at stories like this, or similar to this?

The DS solution is to treat everyone the same - and it's a good one. There's a stigma among CAF members where physical and mental health injures not inflicted on tour are somehow lesser. This guy being 3KMs away from the horn honking could be similar to someone in Mirage or Kuwait getting a MH injury for whatever.

But what if he was farther away? What if someone finds one of those pay as you go virtual doctor to sign off on them having MH issues because they watched a video of trucks in Ottawa honking and now they're afraid of trucks (and can't work) and think they hear horns. No one is going to argue with a doctor (unless the doctor says something unpopular about covid then they're morons, but I digress).

I've seen posts on twitter about how someone seeing a Canadian flag now "gives them PTSD". Before you laugh I know of a CAF member who is now claims he's getting physically sick when he see's a Canadian flag.

Do we run the risk of normalizing MH issues? Would that be a positive thing?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I say we run more the risk of going back to anyone who says they have MH problems are weak. But opportunistic folks can ruin anything called progress.......

I'm sorry but horns honking from 3 miles away gave you MH/PTSD/whatever??...........I don't give a f$%k, get a grip bucko. If that sounds cruel well go check out your local sick kids hospital and say "Thanks Gawd..."

 

[Furniture]

To be the devils advocate, does it make someone just a terrible human being for being a little judgemental at stories like this, or similar to this?

The DS solution is to treat everyone the same - and it's a good one. There's a stigma among CAF members where physical and mental health injures not inflicted on tour are somehow lesser. This guy being 3KMs away from the horn honking could be similar to someone in Mirage or Kuwait getting a MH injury for whatever.

But what if he was farther away? What if someone finds one of those pay as you go virtual doctor to sign off on them having MH issues because they watched a video of trucks in Ottawa honking and now they're afraid of trucks (and can't work) and think they hear horns. No one is going to argue with a doctor (unless the doctor says something unpopular about covid then they're morons, but I digress).

I've seen posts on twitter about how someone seeing a Canadian flag now "gives them PTSD". Before you laugh I know of a CAF member who is now claims he's getting physically sick when he see's a Canadian flag.

Do we run the risk of normalizing MH issues? Would that be a positive thing?

This comes back to my point, that perhaps I wasn't clear enough about earlier. I'm not an expert, and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in some time, but it seems like treating every complaint as equal is hurting our efforts at removing the stigma around MH.

The more we allow MH issues that seem to be minor to a reasonable person, dominate the coverage around MH, the more we reinforce the stigma that already exists. If the average Canadian reads that article and thinks "get over it", it reinforces the notion that a lot of MH issues are just weak people complaining.

 

[KevinB]

This comes back to my point, that perhaps I wasn't clear enough about earlier. I'm not an expert, and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn in some time, but it seems like treating every complaint as equal is hurting our efforts at removing the stigma around MH.

The more we allow MH issues that seem to be minor to a reasonable person, dominate the coverage around MH, the more we reinforce the stigma that already exists. If the average Canadian reads that article and thinks "get over it", it reinforces the notion that a lot of MH issues are just weak people complaining.

No Health issue is the same.
Part of the problem with our Media infused culture these days is many words from the Military have been adopted for civilian usage, PTSD/CSR is just one of those.
It comes with advantages, and disadvantages.
One advantage is it does get great light shone on Mental Health, which really needs a lot more funding and understanding.
The disadvantage is that some usage of the term PTSD are really poor context.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Anecdote, only.

My wife comes from a big city, bigger than any city in Canada, bigger than most cities in the USA. She's used to big city noise and hustle and bustle.

She loves Parliament Hill. I was up there with her, a couple of years ago, with several friends ~ including Regimental friends ~ waving our signs and singing the "Free Hong Kong" anthem (Glory to Hong Kong). We had a permit, of course. She thinks the idea of being able to go to the Hill and say rude things about those who govern and purport to lead us is a great thing. She thought the idea of "truckers" protesting was fine ~ she couldn't underrated what they were going on about ~ people in Hong Kong take "masking up" and vaccine mandates for granted, but it's a big city, millions and millions and millions of people crammed together in a tiny area so good manners really matter. We think wearing a mask and being vaccinated and so on is all about good manners ~ we don't know, for sure, about the medical science but we do understand good manners.

Anyway after the constant horn blowing ~ and a few of you know where I live and how close we are to the centre of it all ~ my wife began to doubt the commitment and capability and basic ability of the local government. She was 100% sure that the "truckers" were totally deficient in good manner or even basic human decency. After a couple more days she had to resort to a getting a prescription for a sleeping pill renewed. Now, days after it is all over, almost every time I come back from my morning walk she asks: "Are they gone?" She knows they're gone, but she is anxious. Traumatized? No. Anxious. Anxiety is not something that one should experience in Canada's capital city, is it?

 

[dimsum]

Now, days after it is all over, almost every time I come back from my morning walk she asks: "Are they gone?" She knows they're gone, but she is anxious. Traumatized? No. Anxious. Anxiety is not something that one should experience in Canada's capital city, is it?

I'm not a medical professional, but isn't anxiety potentially a sign of (low level) traumatization?

I wouldn't be surprised if some folks in downtown Ottawa are legitimately traumatized from the convoy actions. The threshold varies, sometimes wildly, from person to person.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I'm not a medical professional, but isn't anxiety potentially a sign of (low level) traumatization?

I wouldn't be surprised if some folks in downtown Ottawa are legitimately traumatized from the convoy actions. The threshold varies, sometimes wildly, from person to person.

From the general . . .

What are Anxiety Disorders?

Anxiety disorders are the most common of mental disorders and affect more than 25 million Americans.

www.psychiatry.org

Anxiety is a normal reaction to stress and can be beneficial in some situations. It can alert us to dangers and help us prepare and pay attention. Anxiety disorders differ from normal feelings of nervousness or anxiousness and involve excessive fear or anxiety.

To the specific . . . (specific being association with protests, riots and revolutions, that is)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0004867419899165?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200pubmed

Mental health during and after protests, riots and revolutions: A systematic review​

Abstract​

Objectives:
Protests, riots and revolutions have long been a part of human history and are increasing globally, yet their impact on mental health remains largely unknown. We therefore systematically reviewed studies on collective actions and mental health.

Method:
We searched PubMed, Web of Science, PsycINFO and CINAHL Plus for published studies from their inception until 1 January 2018. Study quality was rated using the Newcastle–Ottawa Scale.

Results:
We identified 52 studies (n = 57,487 participants) from 20 countries/regions. The prevalence of post-traumatic stress disorder ranged from 4% to 41% in riot-affected areas. Following a major protest, the prevalence of probable major depression increased by 7%, regardless of personal involvement in the protests, suggestive of community spillover effects. Risk factors for poorer mental health included female sex, lower socioeconomic status, exposure to violence, interpersonal conflicts, frequent social media use and lower resilience and social support. Nevertheless, two studies suggested that collective actions may reduce depression and suicide, possibly due to a collective cathartic experience and greater social cohesion within subpopulations.

Conclusion:
We present the first systematic review of collective actions and mental health, showing compelling evidence that protests even when nonviolent can be associated with adverse mental health outcomes. Health care professionals therefore need to be vigilant to the mental and psychological sequelae of protests, riots and revolutions. Further research on this emerging sociopolitical determinant of mental health is warranted.

. . .

And for those who don't expand the quote box or click the link.

". . . The prevalence of post-traumatic stress disorder ranged from 4% to 41% in riot-affected areas. Following a major protest, the prevalence of probable major depression increased by 7%, regardless of personal involvement in the protests, suggestive of community spillover effects . . . "

 

[Edward Campbell]

From the general . . .

What are Anxiety Disorders?

Anxiety disorders are the most common of mental disorders and affect more than 25 million Americans.

www.psychiatry.org

To the specific . . . (specific being association with protests, riots and revolutions, that is)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0004867419899165?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200pubmed

And for those who don't expand the quote box or click the link.

". . . The prevalence of post-traumatic stress disorder ranged from 4% to 41% in riot-affected areas. Following a major protest, the prevalence of probable major depression increased by 7%, regardless of personal involvement in the protests, suggestive of community spillover effects . . . "

Thanks for that.

 

[mariomike]

Anxiety is not something that one should experience in Canada's capital city, is it?

"Anxious anticipation" was mentioned in the class-action lawsuit:

During the brief periods when the sound of honking horns subsides, the Plaintiff is unable to enjoy the relative quiet because she becomes riddled with anxious anticipation for the moment it will start up again. The Plaintiff has found this anxious anticipation almost as unbearable as the sounds of the horns themselves.

When the Plaintiff ventures outside, she is almost immediately subjected to heckling by members of the Freedom Convoy, yelling at her to remove the mask she wears to protect herself and others from contracting COVID-19. When she ignores the heckles, members of the Convoy respond by honking their horns which invariably causes the Plaintiff to flinch. When the Plaintiff flinches, the hecklers cheer loudly.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Curious how much sleep deprivation is playing into this as well; I've had chronic insomnia for almost 3 decades now, and when I go through an extended period of minimal sleep I will be a wreck for quite a while afterwards even after I start sleeping semi-normally again. Unclear thinking, general anxiety etc are all part of that 'recovery' phase.

With the near constant noise for about two weeks that severely impacted people sleeping I'm sure it will take a while to adjust back to the old normal noise levels, and like any sailor knows, once you get accustomed to a certain noise level, nothing wakes you up faster then things suddenly being very quiet.

Chuck someone in a cell and do the same kind of things and it's classified as torture, and ridiculous to me that the city, provincial and federal governments sat on their hands so long and took a random citizen to get a court order to stop the constant honking, even though it exceeded all the existing bylaw and other H&S standards for allowable dB levels on short term, routine activities like construction etc.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

With the near constant noise for about two weeks that severely impacted people sleeping I'm sure it will take a while to adjust back to the old normal noise levels, and like any sailor knows, once you get accustomed to a certain noise level, nothing wakes you up faster then things suddenly being very quiet.

As any parent knows, lack of noise in young kids is suspicious!

 

[KevinB]

As any parent knows, lack of noise in young kids is suspicious!

Any NCO or experienced O knows - if the JR's have stopped making noise - the plotting has started...

 

[Navy_Pete]

Any NCO or experienced O knows - if the JR's have stopped making noise - the plotting has started...

Nothing worse than when the banter stops; you know you've f*kd something up at that point.